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How to deal with ridiculy low buy orders ?

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Nicals Enderas
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-07-22 05:15:36 UTC
Trying to trade some stuff in Jita, I saw that some ridiculous low order buy order where sets. For exemple, Isogen have average buy orders around 70 ISK, but somebody set a buy order for 100M units of isogen at 0.02 ISK each.

Isn't this killing the trades for this item ? I'm don't know what to do when I find such buy order. Can I just ignore them or do I need to wait until the buy order exprires ?

Thanks
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#2 - 2014-07-22 05:22:51 UTC
Only the highest priced buy order will get filled.
Nicals Enderas
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-07-22 05:32:43 UTC
Oh... Dunno what I was thinking... It may be to soon in the morning to play the trade game. Not enough coffee :) Thanks
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#4 - 2014-07-22 05:48:46 UTC
Don't worry about it, a lot of people get confused by EVE's mechanics and UI.

To be honest, you would have to be somewhat "special" not to be confused.

You did the right thing and asked the question, got the answer and became a stronger EVE player as a result. Sure, there will be people reading this thread and thinking "what a ..." but who cares what they think?

If you are just getting in to trading, you'll probably have a lot of questions like these. You may want to consider joining the "SCC-Lounge" in-game channel for quick answers to them.

Also +1 for coffee before trading.
Violett Lai
Balls Deep Inc.
#5 - 2014-07-22 10:05:19 UTC
Setting those buy orders works for certain items. If you have items which are traded only a couple of times per day/week and which have only a really small number of actuall buy and sell orders (3-5) . Sometimes you can find such cases for officer and dead space items. Not much people are trading in those, because they are so rarely traded that the effort you put into checking the order again and again is not worth it. But if you set such a buyorder with an alt, it can happen that if someone sells a stock of 5 items at once, but there are only 4 buy orders with a normal price and your low one of 1 ISK, you get 1 bil item for 1 ISK.

It happend to me once by accident, but it was once in 4 years of trading.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2014-07-22 11:31:32 UTC
The only downside to the really low orders, is that they skew the regional 'average' price.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
#7 - 2014-07-22 14:13:10 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The only downside to the really low orders, is that they skew the regional 'average' price.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the average price was the average of the buy and sell orders which were filled. Therefore, a buy order which never gets filled has no effect on the average.
Kuri Kurvora
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-07-22 14:22:26 UTC
Shoogie wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The only downside to the really low orders, is that they skew the regional 'average' price.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the average price was the average of the buy and sell orders which were filled. Therefore, a buy order which never gets filled has no effect on the average.


I am sure he meant those low orders which has been filled.

Looking for uncollateralized and collateralized loans.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#9 - 2014-07-22 14:28:29 UTC
Shoogie wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The only downside to the really low orders, is that they skew the regional 'average' price.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the average price was the average of the buy and sell orders which were filled. Therefore, a buy order which never gets filled has no effect on the average.



I may be wrong Smile Just could have sworn regular orders affected it.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2014-07-22 23:20:41 UTC
For what it is worth, and it may only be me, and I haven't checked if Crius fixed it...

By default market columns are not sorted sensibly, I.e. buy orders not sorted from highest to lowest, sell orders not sorted lowest to highest.

I've gotten into the habit of re-sorting the columns (clicking on the header) until they are in the right order, everytime I open the market.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#11 - 2014-07-23 00:01:12 UTC
Lowball orders have their uses.

Not the 0.01 ISK ones, but I certainly have had 1m ISK items sold to me, in quantity, on 250k ISK buy orders that were strategically set up.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Balaster McNugget
Into The Plasma Inc
#12 - 2014-07-24 19:37:40 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
For what it is worth, and it may only be me, and I haven't checked if Crius fixed it...

By default market columns are not sorted sensibly, I.e. buy orders not sorted from highest to lowest, sell orders not sorted lowest to highest.

I've gotten into the habit of re-sorting the columns (clicking on the header) until they are in the right order, everytime I open the market.


I only ever have to fix the sorting the first time, and that's it
Cooyaw
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-08-06 01:58:38 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Don't worry about it, a lot of people get confused by EVE's mechanics and UI.

To be honest, you would have to be somewhat "special" not to be confused.

You did the right thing and asked the question, got the answer and became a stronger EVE player as a result. Sure, there will be people reading this thread and thinking "what a ..." but who cares what they think?

If you are just getting in to trading, you'll probably have a lot of questions like these. You may want to consider joining the "SCC-Lounge" in-game channel for quick answers to them.

Also +1 for coffee before trading.


did someone sell bad bobby to a new person? ^ this is not the bb I remember from 9 months ago.
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#14 - 2014-08-06 09:18:28 UTC
Cooyaw wrote:

did someone sell bad bobby to a new person? ^ this is not the bb I remember from 9 months ago.


Prozac is a helluva drug.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

Sh0plifter
Underworld Property Accounting Partnership
#15 - 2014-08-06 15:46:10 UTC
Shoogie wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The only downside to the really low orders, is that they skew the regional 'average' price.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the average price was the average of the buy and sell orders which were filled. Therefore, a buy order which never gets filled has no effect on the average.

I cant believe I logged in for this but, those buy orders get filled quite often in regions other than the Forge or Domain. One of my regional guys got 1-2m megacyte for 57 isk/ea about a week ago. So, they do et filled. Just like the 100 isk datacores, 50 isk meta mods, and many other things that get sold for 10% and lower of the actual price of the items. Just like items get bought for 500% of the price of the actual item. Like last week for example where I put an extra digit into some implants and sold 20 Willpower +4s for 198m/ea instead of 19.8m/rea. The transactions do happen, and more often than people give credit for. So, it would actually make an effect on the price averages.
Gor Yo
Taxes Shmuckses
#16 - 2014-08-07 12:46:15 UTC
Sh0plifter wrote:
Shoogie wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The only downside to the really low orders, is that they skew the regional 'average' price.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the average price was the average of the buy and sell orders which were filled. Therefore, a buy order which never gets filled has no effect on the average.

I cant believe I logged in for this but, those buy orders get filled quite often in regions other than the Forge or Domain. One of my regional guys got 1-2m megacyte for 57 isk/ea about a week ago. So, they do et filled. Just like the 100 isk datacores, 50 isk meta mods, and many other things that get sold for 10% and lower of the actual price of the items. Just like items get bought for 500% of the price of the actual item. Like last week for example where I put an extra digit into some implants and sold 20 Willpower +4s for 198m/ea instead of 19.8m/rea. The transactions do happen, and more often than people give credit for. So, it would actually make an effect on the price averages.


how is that possible? because:
a) if you set your sell price way to high, your order goes almost to the bottom of the list, and the market will have to be literally cleaned out of all sell orders before they get to yours;
b) I remember last weekend someone BOUGHT 3 standard implants (dont remember the attribute though) from me for 10 times their price Cool
so you sure you didnt BUY 20 implants for 10 times their price? Lol
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#17 - 2014-08-07 16:28:58 UTC
Gor Yo wrote:
Sh0plifter wrote:
Shoogie wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The only downside to the really low orders, is that they skew the regional 'average' price.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the average price was the average of the buy and sell orders which were filled. Therefore, a buy order which never gets filled has no effect on the average.

I cant believe I logged in for this but, those buy orders get filled quite often in regions other than the Forge or Domain. One of my regional guys got 1-2m megacyte for 57 isk/ea about a week ago. So, they do et filled. Just like the 100 isk datacores, 50 isk meta mods, and many other things that get sold for 10% and lower of the actual price of the items. Just like items get bought for 500% of the price of the actual item. Like last week for example where I put an extra digit into some implants and sold 20 Willpower +4s for 198m/ea instead of 19.8m/rea. The transactions do happen, and more often than people give credit for. So, it would actually make an effect on the price averages.


how is that possible? because:
a) if you set your sell price way to high, your order goes almost to the bottom of the list, and the market will have to be literally cleaned out of all sell orders before they get to yours;
b) I remember last weekend someone BOUGHT 3 standard implants (dont remember the attribute though) from me for 10 times their price Cool
so you sure you didnt BUY 20 implants for 10 times their price? Lol



If you're the only regional range order at that level, I can see buy orders being filled (slowly. across the entire region)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#18 - 2014-08-07 16:42:08 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
If you're the only regional range order at that level, I can see buy orders being filled (slowly. across the entire region)

One thing I've noticed about many lowball buy orders of cheap, high volume items (ores and minerals in particular) is that they're more likely to be region-wide. Sure, they won't get much action at the major trade hubs, but out in the boonies you may find someone more willing to sell at a loss.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Sh0plifter
Underworld Property Accounting Partnership
#19 - 2014-08-07 19:39:10 UTC
Gor Yo wrote:
Sh0plifter wrote:
Shoogie wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The only downside to the really low orders, is that they skew the regional 'average' price.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the average price was the average of the buy and sell orders which were filled. Therefore, a buy order which never gets filled has no effect on the average.

I cant believe I logged in for this but, those buy orders get filled quite often in regions other than the Forge or Domain. One of my regional guys got 1-2m megacyte for 57 isk/ea about a week ago. So, they do et filled. Just like the 100 isk datacores, 50 isk meta mods, and many other things that get sold for 10% and lower of the actual price of the items. Just like items get bought for 500% of the price of the actual item. Like last week for example where I put an extra digit into some implants and sold 20 Willpower +4s for 198m/ea instead of 19.8m/rea. The transactions do happen, and more often than people give credit for. So, it would actually make an effect on the price averages.


how is that possible? because:
a) if you set your sell price way to high, your order goes almost to the bottom of the list, and the market will have to be literally cleaned out of all sell orders before they get to yours;
b) I remember last weekend someone BOUGHT 3 standard implants (dont remember the attribute though) from me for 10 times their price Cool
so you sure you didnt BUY 20 implants for 10 times their price? Lol
I don't know to be honest. I was surpised and I laughed at it. Then shared the image of the transaction for the implants on teamspeak.
The only reason I could see is if their sorted market orders was highest first, still though that would show up at 198,xx instead of 19,8xx. As well as the warning for x00% above regional. So clearly, the guy who bought them was just a very special snowflake for paying 3.3b instead of 330m.

Moral of the story; Never underestimate people. There are all kinds of special people in Eve. Whether they jump their freighter blind into a lowsec they have never been too. Autopilot a jump freighter through low sec. Mine/run missions alone in a system with wartargets. Solo drop a supercarrier/carrier/dread 2 jumps from Amamake while PL is at home. Even overpay or undersell items to other users because they cant be bothered to look at the market orders or sell the item themselves. People are lazy/unaware/stupid and that is what makes Eve what it is. If everyone was smart, there would be a lot less profit or action in Eve.
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#20 - 2014-08-08 04:18:21 UTC
Shoogie wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The only downside to the really low orders, is that they skew the regional 'average' price.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the average price was the average of the buy and sell orders which were filled. Therefore, a buy order which never gets filled has no effect on the average.



Either one shouldn't be the case.

If you want to calculate today's average value based off of yesterday's market trades then you want to calculate a weighted average of those trades for a particular item.

Given the following:

Sell Orders;

22 (7)
23 (3)
24 (3)

Buy Orders;

17 (4)
15 (2)
14 (1)
12 (1)
11 (1)
10 (1)


If we simply take the average of these values...

16.44

But if we take into consideration the quantities (shown in brackets) that were bought/sold at those prices...

19.13

The reason why the weighted average is higher is because while there are more buy orders than sell orders, a greater quantity per order can be found with the sell orders.



However even with weighted averages, this still gives too much pull. While in this particular case, there were few sell orders but they held more weight, what if the buy orders held more weight? This would create a weighted average lower than the simple average.

The weight of each transaction and the number of transaction can compound each other. This can give too much power to individuals and can further destabilize the market.


Which is why the average should be compounded.

So given the information above, first you start by producing a weighted average of the sell orders...

22.69

Then you take the weighted average of the buy orders....

14.50

Then simply take the average of these....

18.60



Just for reference, the average between the the lowest sell order and highest buy order is 19.50

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