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Hyperion needs to be a comprehensive sov and supercapital overhaul
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#41 - 2014-07-22 00:34:15 UTC
black legion, showing what's what in General Discussion

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Serptimis
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-07-22 00:37:01 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
black legion, showing what's what in General Discussion

Maybe we should make an out of game agreement not to attack each other posts on the forum.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#43 - 2014-07-22 00:43:47 UTC
Contact our diplos.

I am not a diplo.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Flickstick Rick
Air
The Initiative.
#44 - 2014-07-22 01:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Flickstick Rick
Super capitals can't be addressed until after capitals because you see the reason NYX and Aeon are so popular is because the Archon is the best carrier for fleet fights. You see the archon has best tank and rr ability for years so every one uses that now.
Thanatos has armour tank and great dps so those who don't archon go thannatos and compound the issue even more.

so what you now have is a society of alliance all using armour as their capital tank of choice.
So when people buy super's they instantly get told to buy one of those two because otherwise they aint getting any fleet RR when they deploy.

This effects right up to the titans. So what you really want is a capital rebalance. Then you can buff the HEL and Wyvern slightly and make a few alterations to bonuses and BAM supers are fixed.


Also on a side note supercapitals aint really that super. They die pretty fast watch the youtube vids. Buff all supers hp so super carriers have the current titan hp and titans have 4x what they do now. be nice if they lasted long enough to fly a few jumps and get on the kills
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#45 - 2014-07-22 01:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Romanov
Supers will not be "fixed" until they are unable to operate en masse without subcap support. The discrepancy between shield and armor at that level is moot until that underlying issue is addressed.

Actually, capitals and above might as well be part of a completely different game.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-07-22 01:14:08 UTC
James, did you have a high level bulleted list of changes to SOV and supercaps you were interested in?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Creamdream
Whatever Brah
#47 - 2014-07-22 01:17:31 UTC
What, why? Sov null development is EOL anyways and has been for years with 1 major alteration only. Anything that causes the breaking up of the bloc oligopoly is considered too big to fail and won't happen...
Spurty
#48 - 2014-07-22 01:18:49 UTC
Well first of all, we need to build off of something solid (aka makes sense when you look at it).


  1. Lets start with ironing out the basics like 'numbers' and corporations and alliances. Once those make sense, move on to the next item.
  2. Probably granularity of the controls within these entities. Why does the same control for a tower affect a capital? Hows that make any sense what-so-ever?
  3. Next up, tax bills, costs and fees - Consider the trivial fees of corps and alliances and look at how many people are in them and just how expensive they need to be prohibitive.
  4. Next up, we start thinking about how to tackle Standings for example. Why on Earth is something so -one-button-game-changing-powerful also absolutely free?
  5. After that, if it all makes some sort of sense, only then would the next phase be sov.


So, yah, needs doing, but whats the point if you're going to keep all of the broken stuff in place and not address that first?







There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2014-07-22 01:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Sibyyl wrote:
James, did you have a high level bulleted list of changes to SOV and supercaps you were interested in?

If they want one from me they can put me on the payroll and put a blue tag under my name. Otherwise whatever suggestion I may make for free will just get ignored.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2014-07-22 01:21:44 UTC
You all just need to recruit the remaining 10% that isn't a Goon, CFC, or a friend-enemy. and we can just forget about this whole SOV thing.

Highsec everywhere!

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-07-22 02:01:52 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
James, did you have a high level bulleted list of changes to SOV and supercaps you were interested in?

If they want one from me they can put me on the payroll and put a blue tag under my name. Otherwise whatever suggestion I may make for free will just get ignored.

I thought the "Goonswarm" under your name meant you were on the payroll..

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2014-07-22 03:21:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
This is the single most important issue facing your game today. There is nothing else - PVE iterations, ship balancing, POS revamp, WiS or what have you - that is as important as upholding your promise to overhaul sovereignty mechanics. This is a promise you have made for years yet continually pushed to the side for pet projects and other easier, albeit necessary work. A comprehensive overhaul of sovereignty mechanics including a balance pass of supercapitals cannot come soon enough. It's desperately needed.

While a SOV overhaul is nice, CCP plans on it being the 4th installment of their plan, with industry being the first, and corp roles and the POS revamp coming inbetween. Because these previous 4 are supposed to be heavy supporters of the future SOV system, as well as systems with a more far reaching impact on the player base.

I want a SOV rework as much as you, but getting CCP to do a ****** one that has to accomodate the other old code first is a abd idea, Id rather them have the full "new code" to work with first.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#53 - 2014-07-22 03:54:10 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
*smacks his hand on the table and glares at the goons and black legion*

Children! Stop waving your e-dicks around, you can argue elsewhere =P


Now then, as said already, corp and alliances are next, followed by pos, then sov. Why? Because you have to remember that all thous systems are interconnected. They tried to fix sov twice, one was a complete disaster (constellation sov anyone?) Then there was dominion which we were told 'we will add more upgrades and have second look at it soon.. but right now OOOOH SHINEY!!!!!!'

The corp and alliances roles have been needing a major overhaul for years. A lot of the options make zero sense, esp when you have corp sin places that relay heavily on Corp run equipment. This might also bring about some old tools we needed, like coalition tools or at least bloody treaties which was suppose to come when they canned escrow a few years ago.

You need to roles and standings changed to help remove them from the monster that is pos'. then you need to remove the old pos code that prolly still exist in the current sov code before you can do that. You need modern tools to enable people to live in the space they control. THEN you fix the tools for control. There is no point in doing control if the tools used to hold it are still broken. You can;t build a house on sand and expect it to be decent. You need to lay a foundation and be sure it is reinforced. Thats the other two things. My honest guess is pos revamp and sov will come right around the same time. I'd also like a pos revamp to mean moon go move to something else, like ring mining or something. But thats me.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#54 - 2014-07-22 04:07:28 UTC
Where in that chain of required things does shiny new thing come in and break the flow for another couple of years

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#55 - 2014-07-22 04:10:37 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Where in that chain of required things does shiny new thing come in and break the flow for another couple of years


shiney things will be new stuff that replaces old. my guess we will modular pos' etc.

But i honestly don;t care if it takes a bit to fix the old stuff they left abandoned before we get a flashy new thing. Because i seriously hate looking around at stuff that was never finished. like system wide roid fields, comet mining, treaties, corp contracts and loans, pi linked to dust/legion, wh getting more subsystems, etc

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#56 - 2014-07-22 04:20:13 UTC
i would first start with adding faction warfare to pirate null space. get that working and use it as a template to hash out a real sov rework.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#57 - 2014-07-22 04:30:26 UTC
I tell you, we should have some system where our renters can accumulate Greater Western Co-Prosperity LP and turn them in for prizes.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#58 - 2014-07-22 04:40:48 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
This is the single most important issue facing your game today. There is nothing else - PVE iterations, ship balancing, POS revamp, WiS or what have you - that is as important as upholding your promise to overhaul sovereignty mechanics.


I couldn't agree more and, seriously, it has to happen.

However... you, sir, are asking for waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much "Psshhhhhhhhhhh" in one go -- and shame on you, you know that, too. P

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Reiisha
#59 - 2014-07-22 04:56:53 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's desperately needed


Correction: its desperately needed for a SMALL-to-medium subset of the EVE population.

As a wormholler, I cant use sov or supercapitals. herefore, I could not care less about that.

To me, POS revamp is MUCH more important then some dude's wish to grind more/less sov.



A good sov overhaul could convince more people to use the mechanics in the first place...

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-07-22 05:11:43 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's desperately needed


Correction: its desperately needed for a SMALL-to-medium subset of the EVE population.

As a wormholler, I cant use sov or supercapitals. herefore, I could not care less about that.

To me, POS revamp is MUCH more important then some dude's wish to grind more/less sov.


And here we were told pos only affected a small portion of the players


Isn't part of the Crius release the pos free for all (except Jita, major trade hubs and starter systems). Anyone that isn't familiar with the horror show known as PoS settings will be in for a treat.