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t2 Attack Battlecruisers
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Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-07-21 15:52:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sara Tosa
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Just throwing this out cause it popped in my head, feel free to shoot it down.

ABC as light marauder? Fewer hardpoints, role bonus to damage, maybe light bastion module (or not, kinda pre-bastion marauder), maybe just an ewar-proofing module...

Anyway, good, bad, why?

could work, paper thin tank (even worse than regular abc), which can become a temporarly passable tank while in bastion (or not, the glass cannon concept has merits).
geared toward sniping with bonus to medium mjd (maybe even better than marauders, something like 5s spool, 35 s reuse) they blink around the battleground to keep range, utterly fscked if they get caught, bs-like speed and handling as a price for the fast mjd.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-07-21 18:01:17 UTC
Sara Tosa wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Just throwing this out cause it popped in my head, feel free to shoot it down.

ABC as light marauder? Fewer hardpoints, role bonus to damage, maybe light bastion module (or not, kinda pre-bastion marauder), maybe just an ewar-proofing module...

Anyway, good, bad, why?

could work, paper thin tank (even worse than regular abc), which can become a temporarly passable tank while in bastion (or not, the glass cannon concept has merits).
geared toward sniping with bonus to medium mjd (maybe even better than marauders, something like 5s spool, 35 s reuse) they blink around the battleground to keep range, utterly fscked if they get caught, bs-like speed and handling as a price for the fast mjd.

If you do that, I foresee that the absolute best counter to a sniping teleporting cannon with no tank is another sniping teleporting cannon with no tank. Or 2 of them. Even more effective than trying to have a intercepter trying to pin one down.

The fact that the counter to X is another X, or 2X, indicates to me its a bad idea.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#23 - 2014-07-21 19:51:28 UTC
ABCs should already be T2 ships in their current state imo.

Oh god.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#24 - 2014-07-21 20:16:07 UTC
I would prefer these ships to be more like a black ops class. Covert ops cloak, covert bridging, less tank than the black ops BS (significantly) but can warp cloaked.

But who knows, maybe that'd be broken.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#25 - 2014-07-21 21:19:27 UTC
Phaade wrote:
I would prefer these ships to be more like a black ops class. Covert ops cloak, covert bridging, less tank than the black ops BS (significantly) but can warp cloaked.

But who knows, maybe that'd be broken.

I'd be amenable to them having reduced resists to compensate if it means actually being able to field all that dps...
Omega Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-07-21 21:34:01 UTC
+1 OP
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-07-21 23:56:42 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Maybe have it deploy and do 10 times damage with -99.9% tracking so they become demolition balls only good for structures and other stationary targets.


We call those "dreadnaughts".

Because a talos with x10 damage and -99.9% tracking does the same damage as a moros.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-07-22 07:18:41 UTC
R.I.P. Battleships

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#29 - 2014-07-22 07:37:13 UTC
Not seeing where any of this fills a necesary niche, so nogo.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-07-22 09:43:51 UTC
What you're looking for is an ABS (attack battleship).

They exist already and if you try to fit them for mobility and projection etc and consider them to be battlecruisers tank wise you will find the ship you want.

The Tempest and Typhoon are paticularly good in this role and you get the added bonus of being able to use an MJD!
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#31 - 2014-07-22 12:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
ABC's should be moved too T2 instead and then you can add slightly better resists and any extra bonuses as appropriate ...
as the extra train time and expense might justify any improvements..

Then we could get back the attack bc role for the normal combat bc's .. which would be nice too add extra options too that category .. having 2 combat bc's that are so similar tends too leads too 1 being better than the other just like it used too be..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-07-23 06:59:16 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
ABC's should be moved too T2 instead and then you can add slightly better resists and any extra bonuses as appropriate ...
as the extra train time and expense might justify any improvements..

Then we could get back the attack bc role for the normal combat bc's .. which would be nice too add extra options too that category .. having 2 combat bc's that are so similar tends too leads too 1 being better than the other just like it used too be..


not really.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#33 - 2014-07-25 20:15:18 UTC
going to note this here since people apparently keep forgetting it:

ATTACK BATTLECRUISERS CANNOT FIT MJD

Continue discussion. :)
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-07-25 20:16:19 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
going to note this here since people apparently keep forgetting it:

ATTACK BATTLECRUISERS CANNOT FIT MJD

Continue discussion. :)

And this should never ever change, for the love of god.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-07-25 20:32:24 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
going to note this here since people apparently keep forgetting it:

ATTACK BATTLECRUISERS CANNOT FIT MJD

Continue discussion. :)

And this should never ever change, for the love of god.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. As much as I love amarr, I would never want to see the Tachyon Oracle with a mjd hopping around the battlefield instagibbing people. It would be too much.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#36 - 2014-07-25 20:41:28 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
I guess this thread is incited by the 'too many leadership skills for command ships' thread. But Sure, suggest some.

I personally do not see the need for more T2 or combat BC hulls. The normal T1 hulls are already quite good, and then we got the Attack Battle Cruisers that can fit battleship weapons, which are the weak tank, offensive weapon platform BCs. And don't forget T3 cruiser hulls they already fill part of that role too - and the step to what Battleships do is quite small in that area of operation.

I am not sure, why people are so hung up on labels like 'T2' or a titles like 'Heavy', I look at the stats and the role/function a ship offers me, the color ribbon does not matter (price does in a way). I don't feel the need to fill up lists and equalize everything.

Cov ops Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Battlecruiser, Battleship, ....
Logistic Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Battlecruiser, Battleship, ...
Command Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Battlecruiser, Battleship, ....
Why can't Gallente xxx, like Amarr ...

Always comes up every other day. We do not want a homogenous mash - it makes no sense. I believe we talked about having the same stats for every hull and race, and what you are left with is choosing size and skin. Sure, not really what you are suggesting, but it moves into the category of filling up perceived gaps instead of creating ships for roles that are needed

Ask yourself, why do you really need this ship, which part is missing in the game (not some imaginary checklist), which role unfulfilled and can not be covered by existing hulls and fittings, ... tell me.

And don't tell me, because Command ships take to long to train°°

Cheers

Because tier 3 battlecruisers have room to have a t2 combat variant of them in the same way frigates and cruisers have Assault and Heavy Assault variants. The difference with attack battlecruisers is that the low amount of tank for these in relation to command ships somewhat offsets their face-melting offensive abilities.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#37 - 2014-07-27 13:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: James Baboli
T2 attack battlecruisers aren't a good match for balance, nor a good match for what the playerbase would use.
Making them similar to HACs via high resists overshadows HACs as high resist, mobile fleet combat ships, while giving you faster LOLWTF blap ships for ganking, depending on the fitting.
Making them similar to marauders makes them near unusable because they don't or shouldn't have the slots to actually get utility on the ship with a tank suitable for l4s ( and t2 BCs are or should be used in l4+)
Cov-ops is a no-go as massive DPS appearing on grid from cloak is too hard to defend against outside bubbling everything forever, and that only works in null.
Support of any kind is out, based on the ATTACK part of their nature, so EWAR and logi are a non-starter.
Command (and sorta HACs, but with medium guns still) is already done by command ships.

Only role I can see being even vaguely arguable is BlOps, with the no-covert cloak restriction but without bridging, to cover the secondary weapon systems that the current BlOps ships lack. Maybe "Clandestine ops", ClOps for short.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#38 - 2014-07-27 14:01:56 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:

Because tier 3 battlecruisers have room to have a t2 combat variant of them in the same way frigates and cruisers have Assault and Heavy Assault variants. The difference with attack battlecruisers is that the low amount of tank for these in relation to command ships somewhat offsets their face-melting offensive abilities.


An ABC tanks with distance and speed, and already does such a good job at it that they weren't given the ability to use MMJD's. Giving them T2 DPS and just a smidge more EHP does not change the fact that that EHP almost never gets touched, and the rest of the ship has remained unchanged.

"Room" to expand is rather naïve. Hulls get recycled more than once, and it's okay. See: HICs and HACs, pirate faction lines excluding the sansha blood and SOE, tourney awards, etc... The amount of "room" a "line" of hulls has to expand is restricted only by the number of roles CCP is willing to give them.

It's also important to note that your "lines" are going in the wrong direction. HAC is a line of ships, Combat BC is a line of ships, but the Thorax, Vigilant and Deimos are not a line of ships.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

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