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How does D-scan work?

First post
Author
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-07-16 14:31:23 UTC
Nothing can move faster than light in a vacuum, even gravitational waves propagate at the speed of light. So how are our ships able to pick up signatures that might be up to 100 light minutes away in real time?

1AU is roughly the distance from earth to the sun*, and the sun is about 8* light minutes away from the earth. So extrapolating, 14 AU is around 2 light hours! With D-scan set to max, it should take at least around 2 hours for our scanners to passively acquire information about what's around the pilots ship, double that for any active sensor (since the scan pulse needs to return to the sensor) and yet the results are returned instantly.

Is there a way to explain this discrepancy beyond 'space magic'?









*The distance between the earth and the sun varies a little
*8.3 min
Ollie Rundle
#2 - 2014-07-16 14:59:13 UTC
Probably boils down to it being a PvP focussed MMOG rather than a true simulator. I know that's not the lore-based explanation you might have wanted but it is what it is.

Beyond 'space magic' as an explanation you could perhaps try 'Because of Falcon'? Smile
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#3 - 2014-07-17 02:36:09 UTC
Or you can explain it away with the hypothetical Tachyons, elementary particles that travel faster then light, but never slower, that way you can have near-instant info about anything if you got a device that can emit them & receive them again.
As everything has mass, it creates a tiny gravity well, and they react on that, allowing you to 'scan' stuff.

Note in RL, tachyons are still very hypothetical, none has ever been detected (and as they travel faster then light, it's going to be hard anyway) However, as long as they don't travel at lightspeed or slower, they are not in breach with what we know.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Shikhee
Black Dog Shady Missionaries
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#4 - 2014-07-17 15:08:42 UTC
Maybe it's picking up fluid router signals?
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#5 - 2014-07-17 20:00:53 UTC
Shikhee wrote:
Maybe it's picking up fluid router signals?


Considering how fluid routers work (quantum entanglement), not likely.

Alternate theories: Tachyons, or the D-scan is not an actual scanner but a GPS-like locator system sponsored by CONCORD.
Shikhee
Black Dog Shady Missionaries
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#6 - 2014-07-18 11:55:16 UTC
I know the fluid router connects ship to a relay. I was suggesting that maybe the d-scan picks up any of the fluid router signals picked up by the local relays. It would be sort of like pinging a cell phone tower in space.

Aside from the beam lasers. The only other Tachyon technology seems to be Yan Jung or used by a unique rogue drone strain.
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#7 - 2014-07-19 15:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Horatius Caul
Shikhee wrote:
I know the fluid router connects ship to a relay. I was suggesting that maybe the d-scan picks up any of the fluid router signals picked up by the local relays. It would be sort of like pinging a cell phone tower in space.

That is a terrible analogy. Fluid routers do not send out signals.

Cell phones work by sending and receiving radio signals over long distances. These radio signals travel through the air, and can thus be detected, intercepted, and interfered with.

Fluid routers are like string can phones. They are connected directly, via quantum entanglement, to one or more central hubs. The quantum entanglement effectively means that the fluid router is about as detectible as an internal component in the network hub in Yulai.
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-07-21 02:17:04 UTC
Warp drives include gravity capacitors which... nope, got nothing. D-scan is able to detect wrecks and containers at 2 light hours distant... don't know how that works.

Tactical destroyers... I'll take a dozen Gallente, please.

CCP Delegate Zero
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2014-07-21 10:05:41 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Delegate Zero
I'm not sure it counts as 'space magic' (well, except possibly in the Arthur C. Clarke sense) but I think it is fair to say that the denizens of New Eden are working with a science that has at least a slightly different model of the physical universe than our present mainstream science uses. Blink

I mean, it's a great question and I don't think we have a defined answer, even though it's fairly clear that the means to passively/semi-passively/actively scan at distance with FTL returns is there.

I will point to one snippet of interest from the Interstellar Travelling article:

Quote:
More advanced versions, allowing jumps into systems with no jump gates, are a bit more complex. They send out a constant barrage of high frequency neutron rays, based on the flat-space principle of trans-relativistic physics, through infinitesimal cosmic strings to scout out the destination system. This survey can last for several days before enough data is gathered to allow the ship to create a wormhole (through a resonance node of course) to the destination system.


I'm not saying this is necessarily related to how D-Scans work (and I'm not even sure if the character in that fiction article is using the term 'cosmic string' in the sense our physicists would) but it's certainly another demonstration of FTL scanning technology which, in this case, operates at vast distances.

CCP Delegate Zero | Content Designer - Writer | @CCPDelegateZero

Stitcher
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#10 - 2014-07-21 16:38:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
The D-scan is a pulsed phase-recursive Phlebotinum emitter powered by three integrated hybrid Handwavium flux capacitors operating in the 1.337 GHz range. The heineken insecurity compensators only operate on objects above 42 Arkleseizures, hence the range flatulence. Armed with that data, the army of machine elves in the heart of the scanner array can take the rest of the day off. The resulting moletastic stonehenge parsnip bungee megabugle interacts with the wooblywoo flange screen nargleparts interlocutarily, producing a supernormal bingleswerp ner plin ferds.

Simple.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Chronoxi
The Slick Daddy Club
Slick Daddy Club
#11 - 2014-07-22 13:14:39 UTC
D-scan work because God wills it.
Long live the empire Lol

Since we can displace one ship from one place to another that is light years away (jump portals, cynos and stuff) almost instantly, I'd like to think that scanner works by spamming matters all over the 14 au range, then when matters encounter something tangible they warp back to your ship, very awesome matters eh?

Like your ship is warping somewhere but interrupted by a warp bubble kinda thing. That is how the matter is warping but encounter something tangible and stops?

I am not a science guy, this is the perspective of a filthy peasant. Matters that behave that way must be sentient and it's mass close to non-existence I guess.

weeeeEEEEEEEEEE are never ever ever!

Chronoxi
The Slick Daddy Club
Slick Daddy Club
#12 - 2014-07-22 13:16:55 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
The D-scan is a pulsed phase-recursive Phlebotinum emitter powered by three integrated hybrid Handwavium flux capacitors operating in the 1.337 GHz range. The heineken insecurity compensators only operate on objects above 42 Arkleseizures, hence the range flatulence. Armed with that data, the army of machine elves in the heart of the scanner array can take the rest of the day off. The resulting moletastic stonehenge parsnip bungee megabugle interacts with the wooblywoo flange screen nargleparts interlocutarily, producing a supernormal bingleswerp ner plin ferds.

Simple.


In your entire passage, I only make out the word 'heineken'

So alcohol have something to do with D-scanning, should have known.

weeeeEEEEEEEEEE are never ever ever!

Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-07-22 13:42:02 UTC
Ollie Rundle wrote:
Probably boils down to it being a PvP focussed MMOG rather than a true simulator. I know that's not the lore-based explanation you might have wanted but it is what it is.

Beyond 'space magic' as an explanation you could perhaps try 'Because of Falcon'? Smile

I totally get this, Im still asking anyway incase there actually was a good answer. D-scan is an awesome tool and I cannot imagine playing EVE without it.

Esna Pitoojee wrote:
Shikhee wrote:
Maybe it's picking up fluid router signals?


Considering how fluid routers work (quantum entanglement), not likely.

Alternate theories: Tachyons, or the D-scan is not an actual scanner but a GPS-like locator system sponsored by CONCORD.


Tachyons might explain it, I'll be honest. I thought that was something star trek made up. I'll need to read up on them some more.

If D-scan worked more like a GPS-ish locater then how would you explain it still working in wormholes? Theres no CONCORD in w-space, there isn't even a local beacon. Yet running a D-scan in the system will yield immediate updates to the results.


Stitcher wrote:
The D-scan is a pulsed phase-recursive Phlebotinum emitter powered by three integrated hybrid Handwavium flux capacitors operating in the 1.337 GHz range. The heineken insecurity compensators only operate on objects above 42 Arkleseizures, hence the range flatulence. Armed with that data, the army of machine elves in the heart of the scanner array can take the rest of the day off. The resulting moletastic stonehenge parsnip bungee megabugle interacts with the wooblywoo flange screen nargleparts interlocutarily, producing a supernormal bingleswerp ner plin ferds.

Simple.



Please. Everyone knows if you fitted that many handwavium capacitors to a single unit it would create an unmanageable resonance cascade feedback loop. I mean sure if the main winding was of the normal lotus-o-delta type placed in panendermic semi-boloid slots of the stator; every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible trem'e pipe to the differential girdlespring on the up-end of the grammes, you might be able to get a workable prototype. But you would still need to contend with the side fumbling problem in the ambifacient lunar wane shafts! You would need something that would not only supply inverse reactive current for use in unilateral phase detractors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronizing cardinal grammeters.
It's a nice theory but I'm not sure how well it would work in EVE.
Stitcher
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#14 - 2014-07-22 14:30:48 UTC
Kel hound wrote:
Please. Everyone knows if you fitted that many handwavium capacitors to a single unit it would create an unmanageable resonance cascade feedback loop. I mean sure if the main winding was of the normal lotus-o-delta type placed in panendermic semi-boloid slots of the stator; every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible trem'e pipe to the differential girdlespring on the up-end of the grammes, you might be able to get a workable prototype. But you would still need to contend with the side fumbling problem in the ambifacient lunar wane shafts! You would need something that would not only supply inverse reactive current for use in unilateral phase detractors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronizing cardinal grammeters.


You're ignoring Seagoon's Law of Yin Ton Iddle I Po.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2014-07-22 18:54:07 UTC
Kel hound wrote:

If D-scan worked more like a GPS-ish locater then how would you explain it still working in wormholes? Theres no CONCORD in w-space, there isn't even a local beacon. Yet running a D-scan in the system will yield immediate updates to the results.


There is no automatic local comms beacon or CONCORD security response, but CONCORD"s tracking and recording systems are omnipresent even in W-space: These are the same systems that track kill records, inhibit deployment of certain POS modules, and otherwise regulate capsuleer activity.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#16 - 2014-07-31 08:09:56 UTC
So, a ship traveling 20AU/s is plausible, but information (through whichever means) travelling 28.6AU/s isn't? >_>
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#17 - 2014-09-03 06:04:53 UTC
Electricity through a wire moves faster than light.


Quantum Entaglement moves faster than light because it "knows" what the other particle is doing.

Maybe all D-scanners have hull particles built in them and can tell where the item is in system but only up to max distance. I like the space magic idea. Some things are better as a mystery.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-09-18 04:18:07 UTC
*Scratching Head*

We are in a universe where we send ships, physical matter, many light years between solar systems in a few seconds, and OP is asking how a D-Scan can span a few AU in seconds?

Subspace, Hyperspace... whatever it is that allows the ships to warp across solar systems and jump between them would be the simple explanation here, even more so for pure energy.
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-09-18 04:20:31 UTC
Burl en Daire wrote:
Electricity through a wire moves faster than light.

It moves -slower- through a wire. It's called propagation delay.