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[Crius] Consolidation feedback thread

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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-07-17 16:57:10 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Goliath
Hello people,

This thread exists to gather final Singularity feedback before deployment on the 22nd of July. It is going to be a collection of all the fields expressed there:



Please post any feedback related to the Crius release here, and don't forget we have a "current known issue" thread as well.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#2 - 2014-07-17 17:05:38 UTC
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#3 - 2014-07-17 17:13:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
Questions: When creating multiple-run BPCs from invention, if you have a decryptor which yields a 3 run copy, will the price to research it be 3x one of the resulting items?

Secondly, by it stating that it's what you hope to get out of it (invention jobs fail) does this mean that for something with a 25% success rate you're paying closer to 8% per successful invention job as 3/4 of them you pay for will yield nothing. It does beg the question while I'd pay staff who under-achieved and not just summarily execute them ;)
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#4 - 2014-07-17 17:16:39 UTC  |  Edited by: asteroidjas
so the Teams...they cost a % of what exactly? Is it a % of the "install cost" or of the value of the item? You have yet to state what this % is based on.

Also, since SiSi is still not up.

Are you absolutely sure that all of my already invented T2 BPC's will not actually cost me more materials to produce after tuesday? Or is that just another guess? Last time i looked on SiSi, everything used 20-50% more than it did on TQ. Or are we just going to have to trust you on this one?

-edit- Can we trust the "show info" yet?

And just how many of the dev's responsible for this are going to be on vacation within a week of the release...?... regardless of how much it breaks...(because we all know it isn't 100% perfect)

Also, the job timer....is it still the impossible to read 00:00:00:00:00 format or did you actually add any day/hour/minute indicators?
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5 - 2014-07-17 17:31:44 UTC
asteroidjas wrote:
And just how many of the dev's responsible for this are going to be on vacation within a week of the release...?... regardless of how much it breaks...(because we all know it isn't 100% perfect)


Yes of course, we expect to be on hand for patches and bug fixes following the release.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Maruk Ihnati
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2014-07-17 17:36:56 UTC
asteroidjas wrote:

Also, since SiSi is still not up.

Are you absolutely sure that all of my already invented T2 BPC's will not actually cost me more materials to produce after tuesday? Or is that just another guess? Last time i looked on SiSi, everything used 20-50% more than it did on TQ. Or are we just going to have to trust you on this one?

-edit- Can we trust the "show info" yet?



This. And some T2 BPC had 100% material increase on SiSi.

What is it CCP?
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#7 - 2014-07-17 17:42:17 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
asteroidjas wrote:
And just how many of the dev's responsible for this are going to be on vacation within a week of the release...?... regardless of how much it breaks...(because we all know it isn't 100% perfect)


Yes of course, we expect to be on hand for patches and bug fixes following the release.


Way to pick the only non-technical question in the thread so far.

Also, so are you saying that none of the dev's responsible for Crius will be going on vacation for most of august? Because thats usually how it goes. CCP releases a big patch, then sends most of the staff on vacation leaving on a handful of ppl to deal with (usually insufficiently) the mess of fixes to make the game playable again.

Can you please just answer the relevant questions first.
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp
#8 - 2014-07-17 17:45:57 UTC
Maruk Ihnati wrote:
asteroidjas wrote:

Also, since SiSi is still not up.

Are you absolutely sure that all of my already invented T2 BPC's will not actually cost me more materials to produce after tuesday? Or is that just another guess? Last time i looked on SiSi, everything used 20-50% more than it did on TQ. Or are we just going to have to trust you on this one?

-edit- Can we trust the "show info" yet?



This. And some T2 BPC had 100% material increase on SiSi.

What is it CCP?


The Show Info is now correct with one outstanding issue (ME levels are not correctly updating the material requirements).

As to material requirements on blueprints, whatever is on Singularity at this point is what will go out in Crius (final updates are happening as we speak).

Also as CCP Nullabor stated, the entire team is here for July and into August to cover the Industry release.

Feel free to poke me on: Twitter
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-07-17 17:56:13 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Maruk Ihnati wrote:
asteroidjas wrote:

Also, since SiSi is still not up.

Are you absolutely sure that all of my already invented T2 BPC's will not actually cost me more materials to produce after tuesday? Or is that just another guess? Last time i looked on SiSi, everything used 20-50% more than it did on TQ. Or are we just going to have to trust you on this one?

-edit- Can we trust the "show info" yet?



This. And some T2 BPC had 100% material increase on SiSi.

What is it CCP?


The Show Info is now correct with one outstanding issue (ME levels are not correctly updating the material requirements).

As to material requirements on blueprints, whatever is on Singularity at this point is what will go out in Crius (final updates are happening as we speak).

Also as CCP Nullabor stated, the entire team is here for July and into August to cover the Industry release.

considering that none of nonccp can get onto sisi, you arent answering the question.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#10 - 2014-07-17 18:03:10 UTC  |  Edited by: asteroidjas
CCP RubberBAND wrote:


The Show Info is now correct with one outstanding issue (ME levels are not correctly updating the material requirements).

As to material requirements on blueprints, whatever is on Singularity at this point is what will go out in Crius (final updates are happening as we speak).

Also as CCP Nullabor stated, the entire team is here for July and into August to cover the Industry release.


Sooo, the 'show info' on blueprints is, infact, NOT correct. And how is it soo hard to fix, you've known about this for how long? And will magically have it fixed in the next 2 business days? (i'm just going to hope everyone is going to be working through the weekend)

What your saying is, in order to truely know what the stats on a blueprint are, i HAVE to attempt to build it. In other words...."we can't trust the 'show info' on blueprints" still.

So there will be no Dev complaining that they don't have to time fix something and that we'll "have to wait till we get back from holiday"? I call shenanigans, but alas, i'm not running CCP, i'm only helping pay their salaries. We'll just have to see what happens. (to be clear, i asked "how many devs will be gone" and he answered "yes..." can you understand my desire to get a better answer?)
Darkblad
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-07-17 18:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
From the Reprocessing Feedback Thread:
Darkblad wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Edit, while I'm at it: Two compressed variants contain raw ore quantities that are no multiple of 100 pre Crius - Crokite (1250 units) and Pyroxeres (49.950 units). I didn't get to spare some on Sisi before deployment and can't test. However, adjusting the quantities of compressed variants results in values a basic ore batch contains. This would mean the loss of half a batch for each block when Crius goes live - if there's no other adjustment, which I can't check myself.
Still wondering about this. I've created a sheet to show the impact of the "half future batch" within currently existing blocks.
The new mirror didn't convert TQ blocks. One block still is one block on Sisi. What is planned to be done to them when crius gets deployed? How are those two special ores to be converted?
It appears like Sisi ran a conversion script to convert existing blocks to Crius quantities. This time I had one block of Pyroxeres and Crokite ready. Just made it to check for them now that Sisi was up (just a few moments before the emergency restart)
The results are like this.

12 compressed Crokite which is like 1200 units of raw ore compressed (12 x 100)
500 compressed Pyroxeres, which is like 50,000 units of raw ore compressed (500 x 100)

If this script will run during Crius deployment, the result will be:

Get 50 units of Pyroxeres (within a compressed block), as today 49,950 units of raw Pyroxeres are required to compress
Lose 50 units of Crokite (that were within a compressed block) as today 1,250 units of raw Crokite are required to compress.

(I first mentioned this possible issue on March 31., right after the change of compressed ore being created by using 100 raw ore)

NPE – ISD – RIP
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#12 - 2014-07-17 18:14:20 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Questions: When creating multiple-run BPCs from invention, if you have a decryptor which yields a 3 run copy, will the price to research it be 3x one of the resulting items?

Secondly, by it stating that it's what you hope to get out of it (invention jobs fail) does this mean that for something with a 25% success rate you're paying closer to 8% per successful invention job as 3/4 of them you pay for will yield nothing. It does beg the question while I'd pay staff who under-achieved and not just summarily execute them ;)


- Nope, it's always the cost for one run.
- Yes, that math sounds legit. (And you don't want to execute them because they're all unionized.)

asteroidjas wrote:
so the Teams...they cost a % of what exactly? Is it a % of the "install cost" or of the value of the item? You have yet to state what this % is based on.

Also, since SiSi is still not up.

Are you absolutely sure that all of my already invented T2 BPC's will not actually cost me more materials to produce after tuesday? Or is that just another guess? Last time i looked on SiSi, everything used 20-50% more than it did on TQ. Or are we just going to have to trust you on this one?

-edit- Can we trust the "show info" yet?

And just how many of the dev's responsible for this are going to be on vacation within a week of the release...?... regardless of how much it breaks...(because we all know it isn't 100% perfect)

Also, the job timer....is it still the impossible to read 00:00:00:00:00 format or did you actually add any day/hour/minute indicators?


- Percentage on top of install cost
- As sure as we can be, we're converting the ME and TE levels on existing BPCs to be positive, which balances out the material increase
- All remaining issues we know about are in the known issues thread; you'll see that it's currently not reporting ME-adjusted mineral values but otherwise it should be accurate
- I believe there will actually be more devs who've worked on Crius here after the release than there are currently, as we've moved our vacations around to maximize the number of people around for next week and the week after
- It now reads XD XX:XX:XX

Maruk Ihnati wrote:
asteroidjas wrote:

Also, since SiSi is still not up.

Are you absolutely sure that all of my already invented T2 BPC's will not actually cost me more materials to produce after tuesday? Or is that just another guess? Last time i looked on SiSi, everything used 20-50% more than it did on TQ. Or are we just going to have to trust you on this one?

-edit- Can we trust the "show info" yet?



This. And some T2 BPC had 100% material increase on SiSi.

What is it CCP?


Which blueprints?
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#13 - 2014-07-17 18:59:28 UTC  |  Edited by: asteroidjas
CCP Greyscale wrote:


asteroidjas wrote:
so the Teams...they cost a % of what exactly? Is it a % of the "install cost" or of the value of the item? You have yet to state what this % is based on.


- Percentage on top of install cost

Yes, i figured it was "on top of" the job install cost.

Are you trying to say that the team charges a % of the install cost? (a charge that is added to the cost, which most of us already figured)

CCP Greyscale wrote:

Which blueprints?

If SiSi ever comes back online we might be able to tell you. Until then, you might have to do some of that renowned "embedded QA" and research it yourself.
Lion El'Johnson
Fun Police
#14 - 2014-07-17 19:15:42 UTC
Question : having a ME level 9 RORQUAL BPO which i indended to get to 10 : will i get less time for researching to 10 than someone who had the same BPO at level 5 before Crius hits?
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#15 - 2014-07-17 20:00:58 UTC
Lion El'Johnson wrote:
Question : having a ME level 9 RORQUAL BPO which i indended to get to 10 : will i get less time for researching to 10 than someone who had the same BPO at level 5 before Crius hits?

no. it will be converted to the new system as it stands at the time of patch (unless it is in the oven, then it will be converted when it gets 'completed'

If your reasoning follows, i have plenty of bpo's i'd "intended" to get to 10, but that is irrelevant. Everyone had the same warning, and most of us started researching all our existing stocks to 10-10.
Josclyn Verreuil
Dark 0rder.
#16 - 2014-07-17 21:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Josclyn Verreuil
Two things, I may have overlooked them but I don't believe so.

1.) What are research ranks for T2 (noncap) and T3 component blueprints? I didn't see them listed in the appendix. Last time I was on SiSi they were 1?


2.) Any confirmation on the conversion process for blueprints *currently in research* as Crius hits? We've been told where in-progress jobs will spit out, but I can see a handful of permutations as to how the actual conversion would work. I would hope that jobs will finish as installed, and then the resultant will be converted to Crius values? Secondarily, how till the Crius transition treat jobs that are in queue at patch time?
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#17 - 2014-07-17 21:36:37 UTC
Josclyn Verreuil wrote:

2.) Any confirmation on the conversion process for blueprints *currently in research* as Crius hits? We've been told where in-progress jobs will spit out, but I can see a handful of permutations as to how the actual conversion would work. I would hope that jobs will finish as installed, and then the resultant will be converted to Crius values? Secondarily, how till the Crius transition treat jobs that are in queue at patch time?


I don't think people can read, I know its been posted several times before, and I could have sworn it was mentioned in the blogs a few weeks back, if its in the oven it will convert once "Delivered". It won't convert mid job, it won't cancel, it will run its course and then once delivered the system will process the conversion like every other blueprint that wasn't in the oven when the patch hit.
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-07-17 21:42:18 UTC
what is the status of the fuel volume and cap fuel use changes? is that going to be in this release or is it pushed back a release? and if it is this release, what happened to the jump fuel reduction modules promised with the jump freighter nerf?

will there be a devblog going over the outpost upgrade changes and changes to decryptors for clarification purposes?
Josclyn Verreuil
Dark 0rder.
#19 - 2014-07-17 21:59:03 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
It won't convert mid job, it won't cancel, it will run its course and then once delivered the system will process the conversion like every other blueprint that wasn't in the oven when the patch hit.


See, that's the part that has still never been confirmed, to the best of my knowledge, and I've read through every page of every thread, I believe. That's the sensible way to do it, yes, but to the best of my knowledge the process of conversion for jobs in progress has never been directly spoken to. I think most folks are operating under that assumption, but thus far it is still an assumption, though a fair one.
Grenn Putubi
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-07-17 22:06:57 UTC
CCP Nullarbor mentioned in the Research thread that the patch notes were being compiled and would detail how ongoing research and production jobs were being handled during the conversion. Are we going to be getting that information before Monday? I find it rather inconsiderate to not be sharing that info with us since many of us are going to have jobs in progress and queued up for patch day and not telling us how that's going to be handled is leaving many of us unsure of whether we should be starting new jobs or not.
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