These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Crius] Reprocessing feedback

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Darkblad
Doomheim
#141 - 2014-07-04 04:20:09 UTC
constructum wrote:
Is it possible to get some sort of UI pop up for reprocessing at a pos to get expected values out. Currently ore just immidiately turns into minerals with no idea whether it is anywhere close to correct amounts or if skills/implants are properly being applied
Maybe at a later date but for now:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Setta Codie wrote:
Defiantly need the refining quote at the pos refine arrays just like at outposts. I get 74% at an outpost. I can see that because the quote tells me. I get less minerals at the intensive refining array at the pos but I have no idea of the %


Yes, we wanted to introduce the new UI for Starbase Reprocessing Arrays as well, but all software developers that volunteered to look into the POS code started behaving strangely. Two of them got seizures while drooling everywhere and one had to be locked down for yelling "oh my god, it's full of stars" non-stop.

Not pretty, so we'll have to make due without it so far.
Taken from this post.

NPE – ISD – RIP
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#142 - 2014-07-04 11:47:44 UTC
Yinmatook wrote:
I see the refining array (POS Module) is still doing the base 52% and ignoring your skills and implants. It is becoming more than a little annoying to log in and reprocess 1 unit of compressed ore every patch to see if this gets fixed.

Where is this bug on your list of things to fix (top, middle, bottom...)?

[EDIT] Ok - I went back and re-read the comments for the reprocessing changes... I see that skills are not supposed to apply to the pos refinery modules. Well... darn... The request for a SiSi patch notes remains...

Is there a patch notes for SiSi someplace so we don't have to test everything, so we know what has been worked on and what we should be testing to help the most?


That's an old thread. Skills are supposed to apply to POS reprocessing arrays, it's just not in yet.
Careby
#143 - 2014-07-07 15:49:19 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
...Skills are supposed to apply to POS reprocessing arrays, it's just not in yet.


This morning I logged on to Singularity to get a feel for exactly how the upcoming reprocessing changes will affect me. It turns out that it's still a bit too early for such testing, as the proposed changes have not yet all made it to the test server. As noted, the POS Reprocessing Array currently has a much lower efficiency than a 50% station, presumably because the skills don' t yet apply.

So I'll just ask it this way: Will the difference in final (net) yield of a Reprocessing Array (0.52 yield multiplier) and an NPC station (50%) with perfect standings be the 2% difference in base yield?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#144 - 2014-07-07 16:18:47 UTC
Careby wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
...Skills are supposed to apply to POS reprocessing arrays, it's just not in yet.


This morning I logged on to Singularity to get a feel for exactly how the upcoming reprocessing changes will affect me. It turns out that it's still a bit too early for such testing, as the proposed changes have not yet all made it to the test server. As noted, the POS Reprocessing Array currently has a much lower efficiency than a 50% station, presumably because the skills don' t yet apply.

So I'll just ask it this way: Will the difference in final (net) yield of a Reprocessing Array (0.52 yield multiplier) and an NPC station (50%) with perfect standings be the 2% difference in base yield?




Station Equipment x (1 + Refining skill x 0.03) x (1 + Refining Efficiency skill x 0.02) x (1 + Ore Processing skill x 0.02) )

So nope.

Your skills multiply the 2% up into a larger number.

so, say you have all the skills at max.

0.50 x 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.04 = 0.72358
0.52 x 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.04 = 0.7525232

so it's a bit more than 2%. Not a huge deal more, admittedly, but more.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Careby
#145 - 2014-07-07 17:40:37 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
...so it's a bit more than 2%. Not a huge deal more, admittedly, but more.

Thanks Steve. That makes sense.
Souichiro Suigetsu
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#146 - 2014-07-07 20:13:16 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Souichiro Suigetsu wrote:
hey there,

i tested the new compressing on the Rorqual and the Array.

I recognized that the new pressing for each ore stack (100er) gets one Compressed ore, thats fine.

But the Compressed Ore i have stored in Station will lose a lots of worth as theyre number didn´t Change.
So dunno if this was just a bug on Sisi which didn´t Change the compressed ore Count on Station.
Or if i should refine all my Compressed Ore before Cruius and not getting the new yields from Crius.



Best regards
I've also been hoping to see adjustments to kronos ore blocks during the last mirror. I just appears that there was no script run to bring those kronos blocks to crius blocks - which should be like: kronos ore count of a block divided by hundred = crius block count.

(still I'm interested especially in pyroxeres and crokite, due to them having current ore quantities that are no multiple of 100)



Iam still interested if CCP is going to do something about this before launch,

because i mined and safed like 8b in compressed ore now and hoped i could get some more percentages of minerales as i have a lvl 5 reprocessing char with imp and null minmatar station acces.
Would a shame if i safed it for wastes.
TheManWhoWalks
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#147 - 2014-07-07 20:46:45 UTC
Agreed, still waiting to see if it's better to refine the blocks of Ore before Crius or afterward? Or will it be a wash, which I'm fine with as well. Referencing many many blocks of ore here. Thanks.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#148 - 2014-07-07 20:56:50 UTC
I think I have an answer to this from an earlier post, but I wanted to double-check:

The POS refinery structure is not going to be getting the reprocessing UI window popup that reprocessing in an station/outpost gets, correct? It's going to just be click "Reprocess" and hope everything works out okay?

I really feel that adding this UI to the POS structure is important, if not for the sake of consistency, than for the sake of user sanity. I understand that the POS code is supposedly quite a mess, but quite frankly I see that as a poor excuse.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Darkblad
Doomheim
#149 - 2014-07-07 22:24:12 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
I think I have an answer to this from an earlier post, but I wanted to double-check:

The POS refinery structure is not going to be getting the reprocessing UI window popup that reprocessing in an station/outpost gets, correct? It's going to just be click "Reprocess" and hope everything works out okay?

I really feel that adding this UI to the POS structure is important, if not for the sake of consistency, than for the sake of user sanity. I understand that the POS code is supposedly quite a mess, but quite frankly I see that as a poor excuse.
Correct. They wanted to add an UI to POS reprocessing first. But after some volunteer DEVs risked their mental health by looking at the POS code, they decided to add that when the POS system gets an overhaul later. At least that's what CCP Ytterbium reported here. Bear

NPE – ISD – RIP
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#150 - 2014-07-08 02:11:31 UTC
TheManWhoWalks wrote:
Agreed, still waiting to see if it's better to refine the blocks of Ore before Crius or afterward? Or will it be a wash, which I'm fine with as well. Referencing many many blocks of ore here. Thanks.


According to what I read, the max reprocessing value will be around 78%, but I believe they are adjusting the ore compositions to give more minerals per unit, by an amount that will give i believe it was a 74% refine the same output you currently get with a 100% refine. (which if I recall correctly, is the new perfect at a 50% facility) So if you do have max skills, and an implant, and use a 52-56% facility, you will get more minerals than you can get now. but only by a few percent.
TheManWhoWalks
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#151 - 2014-07-08 03:12:47 UTC
Ty for the response.
Souichiro Suigetsu
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#152 - 2014-07-08 03:24:28 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
TheManWhoWalks wrote:
Agreed, still waiting to see if it's better to refine the blocks of Ore before Crius or afterward? Or will it be a wash, which I'm fine with as well. Referencing many many blocks of ore here. Thanks.


According to what I read, the max reprocessing value will be around 78%, but I believe they are adjusting the ore compositions to give more minerals per unit, by an amount that will give i believe it was a 74% refine the same output you currently get with a 100% refine. (which if I recall correctly, is the new perfect at a 50% facility) So if you do have max skills, and an implant, and use a 52-56% facility, you will get more minerals than you can get now. but only by a few percent.



as i read your just wrong, 76- 78% or something like that will be maxed out yes but that will be 14,4% above 100% now so you will get more minerals if you got perfect skills 4% imp and tier3 minnie station.


and thats no answer to my questions -> whats happening to the compressed ore when i take them into crius
as it was on sisi they´ll get worthless

for example you need actually 1000 units Arkonor for 1 commpressed block after crius you´ll just need 100 arkonor

so if i keep my 150 compressed arkonor blocks they got cut in woth by 10 times and this problem will be on every other Ore even more worse for example Veldspar 133.000 units of Veldspar are needed now after crius 100 well thats a cut 133 times.

So if they don´t multiply the compressed blocks out there as they did not on the Testserver i think iam not the only one who gets depressed.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#153 - 2014-07-08 20:08:04 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Setta Codie wrote:
Defiantly need the refining quote at the pos refine arrays just like at outposts. I get 74% at an outpost. I can see that because the quote tells me. I get less minerals at the intensive refining array at the pos but I have no idea of the %


Yes, we wanted to introduce the new UI for Starbase Reprocessing Arrays as well, but all software developers that volunteered to look into the POS code started behaving strangely. Two of them got seizures while drooling everywhere and one had to be locked down for yelling "oh my god, it's full of stars" non-stop.

Not pretty, so we'll have to make due without it so far.

If you don't mind me asking, what happened to the devs who looked at the POS code long enough to get the new research/manufacturing UI added to POS labs/production arrays? Were they feeling particularly fortified at the time, or is only the code dealing very specifically with POS refining structures seizure-inducing?

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Velicitia
XS Tech
#154 - 2014-07-11 11:12:55 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Setta Codie wrote:
Defiantly need the refining quote at the pos refine arrays just like at outposts. I get 74% at an outpost. I can see that because the quote tells me. I get less minerals at the intensive refining array at the pos but I have no idea of the %


Yes, we wanted to introduce the new UI for Starbase Reprocessing Arrays as well, but all software developers that volunteered to look into the POS code started behaving strangely. Two of them got seizures while drooling everywhere and one had to be locked down for yelling "oh my god, it's full of stars" non-stop.

Not pretty, so we'll have to make due without it so far.

If you don't mind me asking, what happened to the devs who looked at the POS code long enough to get the new research/manufacturing UI added to POS labs/production arrays? Were they feeling particularly fortified at the time, or is only the code dealing very specifically with POS refining structures seizure-inducing?



The latter most likely.

RIGHT NOW (TQ)

POS Refining -> right click, you get 75% (unless ice, then 100%).
POS Manufacturing -> exactly the same UI as stations.


CRIUS:
POS Refining -> right click, you get xx% (based on skills). No additional UI, because it needs added in somehow, and POS code is seizure-inducing.

POS Manufacturing -> replace "call S&I window" with "Call new S&I window".

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Alexander Lion
Suicidal Actions
#155 - 2014-07-15 13:18:06 UTC
Sry for not reading all the pages but will there ever be the possibility to compress gasses?
Mackenzie Nolen
Doomheim
#156 - 2014-07-16 00:30:32 UTC
There's been a lot of disagreement over whether this should be called refining, reprocessing, recycling, etc.

I propose we scrap ALL of that and call the action "baconizing". I expect to see this change implemented for Crius. Thanks!
Darkblad
Doomheim
#157 - 2014-07-16 14:14:37 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Edit, while I'm at it: Two compressed variants contain raw ore quantities that are no multiple of 100 pre Crius - Crokite (1250 units) and Pyroxeres (49.950 units). I didn't get to spare some on Sisi before deployment and can't test. However, adjusting the quantities of compressed variants results in values a basic ore batch contains. This would mean the loss of half a batch for each block when Crius goes live - if there's no other adjustment, which I can't check myself.
Still wondering about this. I've created a sheet to show the impact of the "half future batch" within currently existing blocks.
The new mirror didn't convert TQ blocks. One block still is one block on Sisi. What is planned to be done to them when crius gets deployed? How are those two special ores to be converted?
It appears like Sisi ran a conversion script to convert existing blocks to Crius quantities. This time I had one block of Pyroxeres and Crokite ready. Just made it to check for them now that Sisi was up (just a few moments before the emergency restart)
The results are like this.

12 compressed Crokite which is like 1200 units of raw ore compressed (12 x 100)
500 compressed Pyroxeres, which is like 50,000 units of raw ore compressed (500 x 100)

If this script will run during Crius deployment, the result will be:

Get 50 units of Pyroxeres (within a compressed block), as today 49,950 units of raw Pyroxeres are required to compress
Lose 50 units of Crokite (that were within a compressed block) as today 1,250 units of raw Crokite are required to compress

NPE – ISD – RIP
Anna Ohu
x-Raine-x
#158 - 2014-07-17 06:46:59 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:


Station Equipment x (1 + Refining skill x 0.03) x (1 + Refining Efficiency skill x 0.02) x (1 + Ore Processing skill x 0.02) )


For NPC Station Refining (now called reprocessing?) the new equation with implant is as follows:

Station Equipment + 37.5 * (1+ (refining skill * .03)) * (1+ (refining efficiency skill*.02)) * (1+ (ore specific skill * .02)) * (1 + Implant bonus in decimal format) = effective refining yield (before taxes)

and the tax rate at NPC stations will still be:

5-( .75 * your NPC standings) = tax rate

Can someone please confirm or correct me please? (and info on what the equation will be for POS would be great too)
The 37.5 is the inherent ability to "refine" ore or has this been thrown out?
Darkblad
Doomheim
#159 - 2014-07-17 07:09:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
Anna Ohu wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:


Station Equipment x (1 + Refining skill x 0.03) x (1 + Refining Efficiency skill x 0.02) x (1 + Ore Processing skill x 0.02) )


For NPC Station Refining (now called reprocessing?) the new equation with implant is as follows:

Station Equipment + 37.5 * (1+ (refining skill * .03)) * (1+ (refining efficiency skill*.02)) * (1+ (ore specific skill * .02)) * (1 + Implant bonus in decimal format) = effective refining yield (before taxes)

and the tax rate at NPC stations will still be:

5-( .75 * your NPC standings) = tax rate

Can someone please confirm or correct me please? (and info on what the equation will be for POS would be great too)
The 37.5 is the inherent ability to "refine" ore or has this been thrown out?

Old formula. The 37,5 personal modifier is gone. New Formula (including reprocessing implant yield modifier)

InstallationBase x (1 + Reprocessing Skill Level x 0,03) x (1 + Reprocessing Efficiency Skill Level x 0,02) x (1 + Ore Processing Skill Level x 0,02) x (1 + Implant Bonus)

So for all skills @ level 5, with a 4 % implant in your head and at a 50 % base yield station:

50% x 1,15 x 1,1 x 1,1 x 1,04 = 72,358 %

Once you can login to Sisi again, tooltips when hovering items in the (station/outpost) reprocessing window will show you the station base yield and multipliers)
Same skills are planned to apply to POS Reprocessing arrays as well (with their base yield being 52%/54%) - once CCP makes it to implement that.

As for the station take (reprocessing tax), this is not planned to change. Station tax should still range von 80% (at -10 standing) to 0% (at 6,67/3,34 standing, depending on the station take base)

Devblog:
Reprocess all the Things Devblog wrote:
As such, we are planning to change the formula to the following:

Reprocessing yield: Station Equipment x (1 + Refining skill x 0.03) x (1 + Refining Efficiency skill x 0.02) x (1 + Ore Processing skill x 0.02) )
  • We are removing the 0.375 base multiplier, instead having the station equipment directly multiplied by skills in the new formula. We are primarily doing this to increase the importance of finding the right station, while achieving our goal to reduce reprocessing efficiency. It is also important to note that NPC station reprocessing rates are not being changed for now.
  • Refining now gives 3% instead of 2%, Refining Efficiency and Ore Specialization skills only giving 2% each instead of 4% and 5% respectively.

NPE – ISD – RIP
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#160 - 2014-07-17 17:02:21 UTC
Unsticked and locked.

Please post feedback in the Crius consolidation thread, and don't forget we have a known issue thread as well.