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[Crius] Manufacturing and general UI feedback

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Marc Rene
Doomheim
#341 - 2014-07-17 00:19:37 UTC
Not sure if it just me, but it also appears as if the wheel interface to select the number of runs is no longer working.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#342 - 2014-07-17 00:45:49 UTC
Marc Rene wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Marc Rene wrote:
Tax in a station is not taking standings into account and/or is not displaying the standings discount.


Do you mean in nullsec outposts? Player owner outposts are the only place that standings will effect the tax rate, as configured by the station owner. All NPC stations have a flat 10% tax and standings do not change it.


I meant in NPC stations, not applying a standings discount doesn't seem consistent with the way the market fees work or the lore, and I think further devalues mission running.


Greyscale has explained this in other threads I believe, but the general idea is that standings achieved through PVE should not be required to be competitive at industry because you are forcing those people to play a different part of the game.

Now if we had a way of earning standings through industry then maybe we would bring something like that back, but that is a discussion for another day. For now we are removing the grind, you'll just have to be clever about what and where to build instead.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#343 - 2014-07-17 00:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Nullarbor
Marc Rene wrote:
Not sure if it just me, but it also appears as if the wheel interface to select the number of runs is no longer working.


This is a known issue, it disappeared a couple of days ago but CCP Optimal is bringing it back.

BTW we are removing the interaction with the circle area, it will now just visualize the number of runs instead. It was distracting people from the best way to modify the runs which is to focus the runs edit field and use the scroll wheel on your mouse, or just type the number in.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#344 - 2014-07-17 01:01:02 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Marc Rene wrote:
Not sure if it just me, but it also appears as if the wheel interface to select the number of runs is no longer working.


This is a known issue, it disappeared a couple of days ago but CCP Optimal is bringing it back.

BTW we are removing the interaction with the circle area, it will now just visualize the number of runs instead. It was distracting people from the best way to modify the runs which is to focus the runs edit field and use the scroll wheel on your mouse, or just type the number in.


Can we have some other kind of feedback for BPOs when they're in use? Either just show it a different colour or have it calculate based on maximum job length.
Jinn Aideron
#345 - 2014-07-17 01:30:33 UTC
First, the sincere:

The combo boxes above the blueprint (e.g.) selection table seem to initiate a full refresh over the wire EVEN if you re-select the same menu item previously selected.
Which appears to be outright unnecessary load, and/or oversight.


Then, the silly:

CCP Nullarbor wrote:
BTW we are removing the interaction with the circle area, it will now just visualize the number of runs instead. It was distracting people from the best way to modify the runs which is to focus the runs edit field and use the scroll wheel on your mouse, or just type the number in.

CALLED IT! In post #5 of this very thread:
Jinn Aideron wrote:
  • That radial production runs selector? Fun idea! Big smile Wonder if you'll manage to keep it, or if "common player" Y's inability to grasp this will lead to it being axed soon.
    • :P

    It is saddening that 'people' are this inflexible toward at first unfamiliar concepts' merit. Ugh Props for trying regardless, CCP!

    Stealth deletes are bad.
    Salpun
    Global Telstar Federation Offices
    Masters of Flying Objects
    #346 - 2014-07-17 02:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
    Coping over a bug report just submitted.

    Singularity - EVE-2014-EDOUARD - 8.46.811670

    Following the info panel string from a ship in your hanger to the blue print is not working. It gives a "The requested blue print could not be found" message. I do have that blue print in my hanger. And it pulls up a full info blueprint when clicking on that show info link in the right click menu.

    Use any ship in your hanger and click show info and then click on the industry tab.
    If you click show info on the blueprint it gives a "The requested blueprint could not be found." error message


    Double clicking another blue print with the industry window open but minimized results in the blue print being applied I hear the sound but does not open the industrial window. It would be more consistent if it did.


    Not having a select current system "X" or text stating that enter is required in the system search block is going to confuse players even executing the search when a player hits tab would be an improvement.

    If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

    See you around the universe.
    Firvain
    Wildly Inappropriate
    Wildly Inappropriate.
    #347 - 2014-07-17 07:49:54 UTC
    UI is getting better everytime I look at it. Got some hope for release.

    Still a few pet peeves though:

    - The top bit is just too large and takes up too much space. ESP when I am looking for a team/jobs/facility, the top bit is just greyed out and waisted pretty much

    - The material input is sorted by well I got no idea really, which makes looking for a specific item a bit weird.

    - No group sort in BPO's makes managing a whole range of BPO's a bit tricky. In your inventory they are sorted by group, so why cant we do this in the industry UI?
    Bitter Fremlin
    Heimatar Enhanced Fleet Industries
    #348 - 2014-07-17 08:40:04 UTC
    Firvain wrote:
    - The material input is sorted by well I got no idea really, which makes looking for a specific item a bit weird.

    Also, material amounts seem to be listed "available"/"will be used". Does this seem to be A-over-T to anyone else, or am I the only one who thinks in terms of "I'm going to use x amount from my stock of y" rather than "I have y amount available, of which I'll use x"?
    Medalyn Isis
    Doomheim
    #349 - 2014-07-17 09:05:05 UTC
    Marc Rene wrote:
    Not sure if this has been covered earlier, but the install cost popup is not really helpful.

    The original dev post gave a mockup that was nice and clear and easy to read

    http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66057/1/tooltip_for_pricing_blog.png

    But the current tool-tip


    • Doesn't give you the baseline job cost


    • Presents the system cost index as a sliding scale and does not show the value numerically so it's really quite hard to discern what it actually is


    • Doesn't show, or isn't applying, the discount for multiple stations providing that service in the same system


    • Tax in a station is not taking standings into account and/or is not displaying the standings discount.

    Yes, much more information is needed. System Index Cost is abstract and gives the impression there is no way to affect it, when there are many according to the devblogs. Would love to see this tooltip tomorrow, as is difficult to do anything meaningful without knowing the maths they are using to get the job cost result.
    Medalyn Isis
    Doomheim
    #350 - 2014-07-17 09:08:10 UTC
    Marc Rene wrote:
    Thanks for the reply!

    CCP Nullarbor wrote:
    Marc Rene wrote:
    Doesn't show, or isn't applying, the discount for multiple stations providing that service in the same system


    We consider this part of the base cost, since you cannot really affect it. That's just the cost for installing in that system.


    I don't think doing it this way helps to compare costs between systems, and doesn't show to a new player that systems with more stations of a given type discounts the install cost.

    If you gave the base install cost as just the unmodified starting number for the job then showed the discount given for having multiple facilities of that type in the system I think it would make it much more intuitive and informative when deciding where to install the job.

    Exactly, to make a meaningful decision on where to operate the information regarding the quality of the station facilities is essential. There is no point in having all these variables and then obscuring the information thus not allowing people to make meaningful decisions on where to operate.

    Experienced players would find out this info eventually anyway, so by not giving the information it will simply be making industry less accessible again as it is now.
    asteroidjas
    Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
    The Possum Lodge
    #351 - 2014-07-17 13:09:42 UTC
    Posting this question again, because you (CCP) have ignored it

    CCP Greyscale wrote:


    Dev blog explaining this will be out later in the week, they will not be useless.

    (edit, it is now 'later in the week'...btw)
    Could you please try to define "not useless" more than 3 days before said patch will change them into whatever you (CCP) are so desiring.

    Specifically, how is an increase in T2 Component parts (in many cases 20-50% more) going to be anything but effectively useless? So far you have dodged any real numbers on the conversion of these base -4/-4 T2 BPC's with just mere, "Trust us, we know what we are doing" speak. We want numbers. Before the patch hits.
    And how is this effecting the other T2 BPC's...the ones that had been created with Decrytors.

    With SiSi being down for the last few days its been hard to get specific numbers to prove these things to you.
    CCP RubberBAND
    CCP Engineering Corp
    #352 - 2014-07-17 16:31:06 UTC
    As a heads up, we are going to clean up a bunch of these threads, by locking them and consolidating the discussion into fewer threads.

    The release is now less than 5 days away and people are working incredibly hard to wrap up the final features and defects. So expect Singularity to be back up (fingers crossed) later today with a close to final build and the known issues thread to get updated with the final things we know about (not many outstanding at this point).

    That being said, development will not stop with the release and we will have to push things either into updates or bigger release depending on the risk, but expect continued improvement and work to happen on all Industry fronts up to and well beyond Crius on the 22nd.

    Patch notes should go live before the weekend together with a blog summarizing many of the changes you can and cannot expect in this release.

    Feel free to poke me on: Twitter
    asteroidjas
    Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
    The Possum Lodge
    #353 - 2014-07-17 16:48:13 UTC
    CCP RubberBAND wrote:

    That being said, development will not stop with the release and we will have to push things either into updates or bigger release depending on the risk, but expect continued improvement and work to happen on all Industry fronts up to and well beyond Crius on the 22nd.

    Soo, you mean to say...regardless of what a lot of your paying customers have been telling you, you have opt'ed to not delay this thing that really should be delayed. More so since i have a sneaky feeling that most of the staff who are involved in this are going to be on vacation (for a month) very shortly after this mess hits the fan. Leaving us to deal with the many issues that will arise. Quite a few of which your customers have already alerted you to. Why do i still waste my time giving you feedback? You will still push broken content onto TQ regardless of what we tell you. In the best interests of all involved, just let everyone go on vacation, then come back to this releasing while they are refreshed and no longer rushed.

    Can we trust the "show info" yet?
    CCP Ytterbium
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #354 - 2014-07-17 17:00:04 UTC
    Unsticked and locked.

    Please post feedback in the Crius consolidation thread, and don't forget we have a known issue thread as well.