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Tired of Pointless Wars...
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Rezig Huruta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2014-07-15 23:47:16 UTC
While I understand your frustration, everything in this game must be fought for. Yeah, people wardeccing for the 'lols' is annoying and rather juvenile. However, if you want the perks of your own corporation, you must defend it.

While that sort of hardcore feature isn't in most games, it is a pillar of EVE. You must defend your own. If you can't, or you are unwilling, changing the mechanics of that core (risk vs reward) is not the answer.

You really have a few choices as was pointed out earlier.

People suck. Gankers and lolzwarriors suck, but they are part of the game.
Shelom Severasse
The Disney World Federation
Fraternity.
#22 - 2014-07-16 00:33:35 UTC
Thorvade wrote:
Ok establishing from the start that I support High sec wars and combat, IF they have a true purpose. I believe they make the game dynamic and give choices meaning and danger.

I do NOT support repetitive and pointless wars that hinder high sec corps from being able to play the game.
If I mission and mine that is my choice. Getting ganked randomly is bad enough, but thats somewhat realistic. Cops are rarely around for muggings and murders. But being forced to NOT be able to play a game that we pay for is pretty ridiculous in the long run. I enjoy the space themes, I enjoy piloting spaceships, I enjoy many of the facets that EVE has to offer. But I do not enjoy sitting in a station spinning waiting for countdown timers to end.
Because thats what happens mostly. Thats the best way to get war decs to end and thats BS. Paying off pirates who are harrasing you seems counter intuitive at best.

If a war has a true purpose, like territory (but thats nullsec), monetary gain (griefing for money), or even because you were slighted.

When you are repeatedly decced by 2 man corps, 1 man corps running multiple accounts, etc etc. This is nothing more than people who are looking for free kills against the squishiest targets they can find, and that wont shoot back.

Its these wars that break high sec corps, scare off new players, and generally give way to nothing more than bullying and people who get their kicks from fighting things that cant shoot back.

This is a thread for specifically and useful arguments.

And yes I might be a carebear in EVE, but Ive served in actual combat in real life so I dont want to hear insults etc etc.

you know, there are more skills to train than just indy and mining skills right? have you looked at gunnery or missile skills with which to defend yourself? if your best attempt to defend yourself is by posting angrily on the forums, then thats just sad :|
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#23 - 2014-07-16 09:09:46 UTC
Thorvade wrote:
The point I was trying to raise is that all to often war decs force corps of people to play the way someone ELSE wants them to play.

And that's where you are dead wrong. War decs force you to play as the developers intended. It's part of the whole package that is Eve. You are never forced into this as it is not mandatory to join a corp.

Thorvade wrote:
Our choice is once again punished and we are forced to play according to someone else's playstyle.

You act as if the developers actually give you a choice. This is simply not the case. You never had a choice, you are in a corporation so wardecs are a reality you deal with. You are not "forced" into anything. Stick in an NPC corp and you won't have to deal with wars.

Ohhh but then you'd have to pay 11% tax now woudn't you? You simply want all the benefits, but none of the responsibilities of being in a corporation. This isn't about forcing anyones playstyle. This is you crying about having to pay 11% tax to be safe from wardecs.
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#24 - 2014-07-16 10:26:13 UTC
TBH the solution is simple, don't call them wars. Call them 'unreasoned hate agreements'. Now, when you contact concord you can state your utter hatred for some people and suddenly makes sense as they go 'sure why not pew them for absolutely no reason at all'.

Then systems fine, no need to change anything, I accept isk for ideas provided.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-07-16 10:37:30 UTC
Thorvade wrote:
Yes I would like to play the game my way or at least as close as I can, just as the rest of you do. Especialy since EVE is touted as a space simulator. Thats why most of us play EVE at all. There was some grand thing or another that led us to the game and kept us playing over a few years.
Forgive me for choosing to participate in something the way I choose to.

The point I was trying to raise is that all to often war decs force corps of people to play the way someone ELSE wants them to play.
Eve is not a pvp or pvp game uniquely its what you choose to make of it. Most of you who run around blowing stuff up (especially those who pvp!) are supported by those who choose PVE activities.

The reason why I choose to argue about wars is all to often these wars serve no other purpose other than harrasment at its most basic form. I cannot play in a function which my character is tuned/designed for so in the end all that achieves is the removal of my playtime. Which when I pay for out of pocket, which means they are taking my money. This is not fun, and a good way to turn people off to this game entirely.

Why is it that carebears rarely engage in pvp? Many reasons exist. Hell maybe some off us just arent good at it. But, most importantly is because we choose not to. Our choice is once again punished and we are forced to play according to someone else's playstyle. So going out at shooting enemy war dec targets doesnt appeal to us. More importantly its rewarding someone else for a way of playing the game, while punishing the other.
If so maybe a way to turn the tide on those corps that war dec randomly.

Give it a option of pilot license revoke and let them get stuck in station or forced to do indy/missioning.
Because thats what is happening. Whats good for the goose is good fo the gander.

In the end PVE and PVP are necessary mechanics, both are needed to make the game run. Thats fine and needed for depth and interaction.

I do understand wars will happen to high sec corps. I have fought in them in the past, and I have even enjoyed it sometimes.
But when they stack up at it becomes more of an grind to even log onto EVE? Thats when something is wrong.





And when you want to not be shot, that means me not shooting you, you are trying to force me to play the way YOU want. The way I want to play is shooting EVERYONE that is not in my corp.

The same way I cannot get 100% of what I want, you cannot get 100% of what you want, because either of the optiosn would make the other side get 0% of what it wants.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-07-16 10:42:48 UTC
Shelom Severasse wrote:
Thorvade wrote:
Ok establishing from the start that I support High sec wars and combat, IF they have a true purpose. I believe they make the game dynamic and give choices meaning and danger.

I do NOT support repetitive and pointless wars that hinder high sec corps from being able to play the game.
If I mission and mine that is my choice. Getting ganked randomly is bad enough, but thats somewhat realistic. Cops are rarely around for muggings and murders. But being forced to NOT be able to play a game that we pay for is pretty ridiculous in the long run. I enjoy the space themes, I enjoy piloting spaceships, I enjoy many of the facets that EVE has to offer. But I do not enjoy sitting in a station spinning waiting for countdown timers to end.
Because thats what happens mostly. Thats the best way to get war decs to end and thats BS. Paying off pirates who are harrasing you seems counter intuitive at best.

If a war has a true purpose, like territory (but thats nullsec), monetary gain (griefing for money), or even because you were slighted.

When you are repeatedly decced by 2 man corps, 1 man corps running multiple accounts, etc etc. This is nothing more than people who are looking for free kills against the squishiest targets they can find, and that wont shoot back.

Its these wars that break high sec corps, scare off new players, and generally give way to nothing more than bullying and people who get their kicks from fighting things that cant shoot back.

This is a thread for specifically and useful arguments.

And yes I might be a carebear in EVE, but Ive served in actual combat in real life so I dont want to hear insults etc etc.

you know, there are more skills to train than just indy and mining skills right? have you looked at gunnery or missile skills with which to defend yourself? if your best attempt to defend yourself is by posting angrily on the forums, then thats just sad :|


Or even better.. use your own skills to make FRIENDS, and develop a network of contacts, an intel channel. You know REALLY PLAY EVE. The main benefit is not even that you will lose less ships, it is that the game becomes hundreds of times more interesting and fun!

Any corp that basically acts as a lot of people playing solo under the same banner is fail. This is NOT a solo game, learn to play with others.

And for god sake.. get an empty clone a destroyer or t1 cruiser and TRY the pvp ( need to lose at least 5-7 ships) before you dare to say you do not like it. Most people are just frightened. But if people would not be able to overcome their fear of the unknown human race would end because no one would ever be able to ask a girl to go out for the first time on his life... because "omg.. I never did it, so I cannot do it and I am scared!!!"

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Intar Medris
KarmaFleet University
#27 - 2014-07-16 11:33:35 UTC
Thorvade wrote:
Yes I would like to play the game my way or at least as close as I can, just as the rest of you do. Especialy since EVE is touted as a space simulator. Thats why most of us play EVE at all. There was some grand thing or another that led us to the game and kept us playing over a few years.
Forgive me for choosing to participate in something the way I choose to.

The point I was trying to raise is that all to often war decs force corps of people to play the way someone ELSE wants them to play.
Eve is not a pvp or pvp game uniquely its what you choose to make of it. Most of you who run around blowing stuff up (especially those who pvp!) are supported by those who choose PVE activities.

The reason why I choose to argue about wars is all to often these wars serve no other purpose other than harrasment at its most basic form. I cannot play in a function which my character is tuned/designed for so in the end all that achieves is the removal of my playtime. Which when I pay for out of pocket, which means they are taking my money. This is not fun, and a good way to turn people off to this game entirely.

Why is it that carebears rarely engage in pvp? Many reasons exist. Hell maybe some off us just arent good at it. But, most importantly is because we choose not to. Our choice is once again punished and we are forced to play according to someone else's playstyle. So going out at shooting enemy war dec targets doesnt appeal to us. More importantly its rewarding someone else for a way of playing the game, while punishing the other.
If so maybe a way to turn the tide on those corps that war dec randomly.

Give it a option of pilot license revoke and let them get stuck in station or forced to do indy/missioning.
Because thats what is happening. Whats good for the goose is good fo the gander.

In the end PVE and PVP are necessary mechanics, both are needed to make the game run. Thats fine and needed for depth and interaction.

I do understand wars will happen to high sec corps. I have fought in them in the past, and I have even enjoyed it sometimes.
But when they stack up at it becomes more of an grind to even log onto EVE? Thats when something is wrong.




You can effectively PVP with just a bunch of frigates. Surely you and your corp mates have decent enough skills to do that. If you keep making yourself an easy target expect the corp to be wardecced to oblivion. Fight back and keep your losses low, and cause the attackers some losses you are much less likely to be wardecced in the future. Or hire a Merc group to defend you, and really give your attackers a headache which will have them running for the hills if you hire a competent group.

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#28 - 2014-07-16 14:38:27 UTC
If you can't defend your way of life, it will be taken from you.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#29 - 2014-07-16 15:48:44 UTC
This is the part where you learn how to shoot back. It's the place where your corp grows, or dies.
If your members won't ever attempt to fight, your corp is doomed to die a slow and sad death.

Over 90% of EVE ships have guns on them. Should be a big clue at some point, as to what happens in the game.
Samuel Triptee
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#30 - 2014-07-16 18:26:35 UTC
So... let me get this straight...


There is a miner complaining his play style is being controlled by a WarDecker.

The Miner's solution is to control the WarDecker's play style.


Am I missing something?


Miner's are very fortunate I didn't design the asteroid fields... they would be more dangerous to fly around than level 4 missions. Those big rocks would be randomly moving and would cause damage if they made contact. Nasty place to go to work.

Have You Hugged Your Frigate Today?
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-07-16 18:55:20 UTC
Why hello there OP.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Jimmy O'Shanty
The Westies
#32 - 2014-07-16 19:50:33 UTC
Take "Mining Barge Level Whatever" out of your queue and throw in some combat skills. Station camp him for a change.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#33 - 2014-07-16 22:43:03 UTC
Thorvade wrote:
Yes I would like to play the game my way or at least as close as I can, just as the rest of you do. Especialy since EVE is touted as a space simulator. Thats why most of us play EVE at all. There was some grand thing or another that led us to the game and kept us playing over a few years.
Forgive me for choosing to participate in something the way I choose to.

The point I was trying to raise is that all to often war decs force corps of people to play the way someone ELSE wants them to play.
Eve is not a pvp or pvp game uniquely its what you choose to make of it. Most of you who run around blowing stuff up (especially those who pvp!) are supported by those who choose PVE activities.

The reason why I choose to argue about wars is all to often these wars serve no other purpose other than harrasment at its most basic form. I cannot play in a function which my character is tuned/designed for so in the end all that achieves is the removal of my playtime. Which when I pay for out of pocket, which means they are taking my money. This is not fun, and a good way to turn people off to this game entirely.

Why is it that carebears rarely engage in pvp? Many reasons exist. Hell maybe some off us just arent good at it. But, most importantly is because we choose not to. Our choice is once again punished and we are forced to play according to someone else's playstyle. So going out at shooting enemy war dec targets doesnt appeal to us. More importantly its rewarding someone else for a way of playing the game, while punishing the other.
If so maybe a way to turn the tide on those corps that war dec randomly.

Give it a option of pilot license revoke and let them get stuck in station or forced to do indy/missioning.
Because thats what is happening. Whats good for the goose is good fo the gander.

In the end PVE and PVP are necessary mechanics, both are needed to make the game run. Thats fine and needed for depth and interaction.

I do understand wars will happen to high sec corps. I have fought in them in the past, and I have even enjoyed it sometimes.
But when they stack up at it becomes more of an grind to even log onto EVE? Thats when something is wrong.




A better question would be; why do half of all carebear types quit within 6mos of starting to play Eve? I'll save you the tedious Google'ing .. it's because they get bored and unsub.

Have you ever PvP'ed? Yes, you just don't realize it. Have you ever placed a market order that was priced competitively? Have you ever warped out when someone was trying to get you to fight them?

Guess what? All of those things are PvP. Eve is PvP, regardless of what you tell yourself.

Thank me later :D
Orin Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-07-17 06:39:14 UTC
When I first played Eve, I joined a mining corp. I mined and did missions and that's it. Then we started to get wardecced by random small corps left and right. I was told to dock up and stay docked or leave corp and continue mining. I did as I was told. I was taught to be scared. It wasn't long before I quit Eve.

6 months later I saw an ad for Eve. It seemed really interesting and complex. And it was so open. Then I started to think to myself...

Why did I quit again?
Oh yeah... those war decs...
Umm... wait, why didn't I just fight back?
I didn't want to lose ships!
Wait... why do I care about losing pixels again?

I resubbed. And you know what? I'm still a carebear and I still suck a pvp.

But I'm not scared to defend myself anymore. I trained combat skills up some more that I needed to for missions anyway. I flew around in FW for a bit, died a LOT, but learned a lot about what PVP entails. Then I went back to carebearing with my newfound knowledge and skills. It's made the game a whole lot more fun and dynamic. In fact, sometimes I get the itch to just go get in trouble for the hell of it. Sure, the people who kill me mock me afterwards. My killboard is kinda embarrassing but it's not completely one sided anymore.

Just have fun with it. And if it's excessive then don't give them any content. Drop corp or just plain avoid them if you don't want to fight. It's not hard to do with the corp is so small.

In the end, they might catch you and kill you... but we're capsuleers. Jump into a fresh clone, dust yourself off, and continue where you left off.
flakeys
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-07-17 07:09:37 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Why hello there OP.




Sure took you long enough kane .... Big smile

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Dilligafmofo
3WAYFOUNDATIONS
New Miner's Union
#36 - 2014-07-17 07:55:01 UTC
OP, everything you wish for is totally available to you.

Your every Eve desire is catered for.

It resides in an NPC corp.

The only cost to you for this hedonistic playstyle? The tax levied by the NPC corp.

If you want to shun the Eve taxman, so as to mission and mine undisturbed to create a wallet that will never be enough, you join a player made corp. Joining said corp comes with a few downsides. The ability to be wardecced is one of those downsides.


Pay the taxman or pay the penalty- only you can make this call. Don't complain when you reap the rewards and don't accept the penalties.

A war dec from a one man corp ------ Caldari frigates have your answer, look into them Blink
Intar Medris
KarmaFleet University
#37 - 2014-07-17 11:08:08 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Why hello there OP.



You are in trouble now OP. Kane loves people who complain about being wardecced. He shows it by hugging their ship with lasers, bullets, and missiles.

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
Mikael Menethil
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2014-07-17 13:19:48 UTC
Are there any other players, besides gankers, mercs and their alts, that will defend the current wardec mechanic?

;)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-07-17 14:35:08 UTC
Mikael Menethil wrote:
Are there any other players, besides gankers, mercs and their alts, that will defend the current wardec mechanic?

;)



the developers....

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2014-07-17 14:37:24 UTC
Orin Solette wrote:
When I first played Eve, I joined a mining corp. I mined and did missions and that's it. Then we started to get wardecced by random small corps left and right. I was told to dock up and stay docked or leave corp and continue mining. I did as I was told. I was taught to be scared. It wasn't long before I quit Eve.

6 months later I saw an ad for Eve. It seemed really interesting and complex. And it was so open. Then I started to think to myself...

Why did I quit again?
Oh yeah... those war decs...
Umm... wait, why didn't I just fight back?
I didn't want to lose ships!
Wait... why do I care about losing pixels again?

I resubbed. And you know what? I'm still a carebear and I still suck a pvp.

But I'm not scared to defend myself anymore. I trained combat skills up some more that I needed to for missions anyway. I flew around in FW for a bit, died a LOT, but learned a lot about what PVP entails. Then I went back to carebearing with my newfound knowledge and skills. It's made the game a whole lot more fun and dynamic. In fact, sometimes I get the itch to just go get in trouble for the hell of it. Sure, the people who kill me mock me afterwards. My killboard is kinda embarrassing but it's not completely one sided anymore.

Just have fun with it. And if it's excessive then don't give them any content. Drop corp or just plain avoid them if you don't want to fight. It's not hard to do with the corp is so small.

In the end, they might catch you and kill you... but we're capsuleers. Jump into a fresh clone, dust yourself off, and continue where you left off.



MASSIVE CONGRATULATIONS. You reborn as a true eve player. You understood the game!!!!

I have more respect for a real player with an embarrassing killboard than for a pristine killboard of someone that does not really play eve.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"