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Should WH mining sites be signatures?

First post
Author
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#21 - 2014-07-10 17:59:21 UTC
There is a remove local lesson here somewhere Pirate
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-07-11 07:54:28 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dally Lama wrote:

The result is that most WH communities now agree that mining at all in a WH is a stupid idea and many past WH miners have simply stopped.


No, they dont and no they havent

Any that have stopped because of this have no idea how WHs actually work


Do you live in wormhole space?

Any experienced wormholer who knows how wormholes work would not make such a baseless and bold statement.


What, that its entirely possible to mine more safely in a WH than in Highsec?

I think any experienced wormholer (sic) knows this, its hardly baseless


Okay i take it that you don't live in wormhole space and therefore, don't know what you are talking about.

Wormholes are the most dangerous place to mine and no amount bubbles or reducing the mass of your static can stop someone rolling into your system and immediately warping to your ore site.

Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#23 - 2014-07-11 11:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Yarda Black
I agree with the OP. I even think every warpable object should be probed down in WH space. That way WH space will stay a truly different enviroment.

Small edit: Since my post ended up right between two others, I made it a bit clearer who it is I agree with (the OP).
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#24 - 2014-07-11 12:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Quinn Corvez wrote:


Okay i take it that you don't live in wormhole space and therefore, don't know what you are talking about.

Wormholes are the most dangerous place to mine and no amount bubbles or reducing the mass of your static can stop someone rolling into your system and immediately warping to your ore site.



lol Ive lived in WHs many times as it happens

Just because YOU dont know how to do it, doesnt mean its not possible

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-07-11 14:54:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Ramonas claim that wormhole are safer to mine in than highsec is not true. Wormholes don't have local chat, and when you throw a cloaky nullified T3 in the mix, the miner will often never see the hunter coming and although they can do things to mitigate the risks, they can never stop a new hostile wormhole spawning in the system they are mining in.

As a hunter all you need to do is jump through the wormhole, warp to the ore site and kill the miner... The question is, is it too easy for the hunter and should they have to combat scan the miner so that the interaction is well balanced for both the hunter and the hunted.
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#26 - 2014-07-11 14:59:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
In High Sec you cannot close the gates.

You cannot guard the gates

You cannot bubble the gates

You cannot place a drag bubble filled with cans between you and the gate

You are ALWAYS on local in High Sec, and so cloaking or docking doesnt make you vanish

The belts are very small in High Sec

You also cannot do another, rather important thing that you can do in a WH to prevent your system being invaded.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-07-11 15:09:51 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Ramona McCandless wrote:
In High Sec you cannot close the gates.

You cannot guard the gates

You cannot bubble the gates

You cannot place a drag bubble filled with cans between you and the gate

You are ALWAYS on local in High Sec, and so cloaking or docking doesnt make you vanish

The belts are very small in High Sec

You also cannot do another, rather important thing that you can do in a WH to prevent your system being invaded.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal..



You can't bubble a roaming wormhole that hasn't spawned in your system yet

Bubbles don't stop nullified ships

Bubbles don't drag nullified ships

I'm aware that local exists so i'm not sure what point you are trying to make

You can't stop someone entering your wormhole forever

Apparently Straight


*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#28 - 2014-07-11 15:20:13 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Quinn Corvez wrote:

You can't stop someone entering your wormhole forever

Who mentioned forever? You do have to do SOME work, you know

*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#29 - 2014-07-11 15:30:57 UTC
WH mining can be safe, for sure, just like running sites can be safe. Far safer than HS as well. However it takes a lot of preparation and permanent vigilance the entire time to make it. Crashing your static, crashing all K162's, constantly force refreshing the Discovery Scanner. And yes traps and the such can be set up.

Everytime you log in you need to redo all this in case there's been a K162 that only lasted while you were offline. The high likelyhood of messing up one or more steps is what makes it so insanely dangerous. A hunter needs at most a minute to be on top of you from a fresh K162. Not many people (excluding bot assisted ones) can keep up force refreshing the Discovery Scanner constantly like that for hours and hours on end.

Making the Ore's back to Signatures would give that extra layer of protection. It's mostly theoretical protection from a good hunter but it's better than nothing.

It makes it more interesting for Hunters too. I miss having to put actual effort in to catching Miners. Trying to get that 100% from a single combat probe pass made it much more interesting.
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-07-11 17:32:31 UTC
ALL mining sites should be reverted to signatures. It was a dumb change, that yes, negatively impacted W-space most of all.

As for the dumb suggestion of setting up sling bubbles, yes, I'm sure that will do you a lot of good against interdiction nullified strategic cruisers.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#31 - 2014-07-11 17:35:10 UTC
yeah the ore sites should be a sig again even in empire, i warped to help a new guy mine with the use of my orca and as i warped to the site i saw a ganker jump in system, warp off and i landed as the rookie miner exploded.
blowing up miners doesnt remove isk from the game, just causes it to change hands, if i was to start a ganking group id have bigger fish to fry on a daily basis.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-07-11 17:47:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Quinn Corvez wrote:
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal., Ramonas claim that wormhole are safer to mine in than highsec is not true. Wormholes don't have local chat, and when you throw a cloaky nullified T3 in the mix, the miner will often never see the hunter coming and although they can do things to mitigate the risks, they can never stop a new hostile wormhole spawning in the system they are mining in.

As a hunter all you need to do is jump through the wormhole, warp to the ore site and kill the miner... The question is, is it too easy for the hunter and should they have to combat scan the miner so that the interaction is well balanced for both the hunter and the hunted.

I'm sorry I missed your earlier post. The rules of engagement in low/null are identical to what you describe here without the benefit of Local. As such, I agree with your assessment.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#33 - 2014-07-11 18:55:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some replies to edited out parts of the quoted posts and those quoting them.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

Thread reopened.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

marVLs
#34 - 2014-07-12 09:39:06 UTC
Should be sigs, all ore sites should need ore scanning probes to be scaned down, there You go now peps re mining in LS and NS
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution
#35 - 2014-07-12 09:51:09 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dally Lama wrote:

The result is that most WH communities now agree that mining at all in a WH is a stupid idea and many past WH miners have simply stopped.


No, they dont and no they havent

Any that have stopped because of this have no idea how WHs actually work


Do you live in wormhole space?

Any experienced wormholer who knows how wormholes work would not make such a baseless and bold statement.


What, that its entirely possible to mine more safely in a WH than in Highsec?

I think any experienced wormholer (sic) knows this, its hardly baseless


Okay i take it that you don't live in wormhole space and therefore, don't know what you are talking about.

Wormholes are the most dangerous place to mine and no amount bubbles or reducing the mass of your static can stop someone rolling into your system and immediately warping to your ore site.



Whatever happened to the days when corps would send attack ships to guard their miners during mining operations?

All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.

Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#36 - 2014-07-12 19:16:32 UTC
WH mining has had massive buffs in the last couple of expansions. Ore sigs being switched to anoms was a small price to pay for all of that.
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#37 - 2014-07-12 19:18:01 UTC
Titania Hrothgar wrote:


Whatever happened to the days when corps would send attack ships to guard their miners during mining operations?

Same thing as in High Sec

Nothing

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#38 - 2014-07-13 00:02:55 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Drop drag bubbles at every probable incoming vector and make a bookmark to avoid them yourself? Then if they try to drop on you they're far out of scram range.


Until they learn to scout in a cloaky?

Nothing exploity about dropping a can or three in the bubble as long as they're not dozens to lag the other one out. You only need a blip as a warning and warp out.


1. Nullified tech 3s
2. Nullified sceptors will still burn you down
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#39 - 2014-07-13 11:15:13 UTC
Adapt like we did. Close all your entrances and lock yourself in. The changes to the probe screen means as soon as new sig appears you can all get safe long before any hostiles have a chance to get within range of your miners. It really pisses them off no end. Cool

Oh course, you are still vulnerable to anyone cloaked thats already in your hole, but thats half the fun of wh-space!

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-07-13 11:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Dally Lama wrote:
In a recent expansion WH mining sites were switched to become anomalies, which means they can be warped into without scan probes.

The result is that most WH communities now agree that mining at all in a WH is a stupid idea and many past WH miners have simply stopped.

Whats your opinions on this? Should they keep them as is - screw the risk averse - or should they restore them as signatures where constant d-scanning for probes can keep you safe (unless theyve pre-probed).


You assume, incorrectly, that the 10 or so seconds it takes a good prober to find you will somehow make things safer.

It won't.

The best WH hunters sometimes stake out systems for days at a time. They are a patient bunch, unlike most pilots.

And since subsequent expansions/releases (whatever the damn buzzword is these days) have, repeatedly, changed the nature of scanning/probing itself then any restoration would be a much bigger revision than you might be aware of.

That being said, most EVE communities agree that CCP has bigger fish to fry.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

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