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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1721 - 2014-07-10 22:14:17 UTC
DB Tank wrote:

Wars should have a meaning why there was a war dec in the first place rather than just to get a kill


No, they should not. This is a sandbox game, which means that "because I can" is a good enough answer, let alone "to get kills".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1722 - 2014-07-10 22:18:32 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
.... suicide ganking is just a way to avoid having to war dec.
Yes it is, what of it?

It's also one of the more amusing ways of screwing with trade & industry, hauler and miner alts etc. Specifically those hiding in NPC corps and/ or shipping through 3rd party haulers, who will more than likely use NPC alts...*

An NPC corp is a way of avoiding wardecs, suicide ganking is a counter to that, the counter to suicide ganking is to play smarter.

*I'm beginning to sound like a goon Shocked



I am not saying it shoudl nto exist. I jsut think that destroyers are TOOOO effective on taht role. Make the game look even more stupid. If it was not for destroyers at least I could pretend that the gankers are being penalized when concord appears :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
DB Tank
Worcester Marauders
#1723 - 2014-07-10 22:20:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
DB Tank wrote:

Wars should have a meaning why there was a war dec in the first place rather than just to get a kill


No, they should not. This is a sandbox game, which means that "because I can" is a good enough answer, let alone "to get kills".



And with that sandbox word I also just finish on what version of eve I imagine sounds a lot better than yours but each to there own. Every one has a valid point of view
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1724 - 2014-07-10 22:22:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Whenever someone comes out with null is safer tripe I tell them to run a simple test.

Take an empty, unfitted badger and park it on one of the busy jita gates, see how long it is before someone attacks.

Next take an unfitted badger and park it on a busy null sec gate. Keep on replacing the null sec badger untill the one in jita gets killed.



now.. put 20 plexes inside... and the jita one suddenly gets popped way faster .


Irrelevant situatiosn are not a good argument sorry. Usually you present reasonable ones, but that was not.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1725 - 2014-07-10 22:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I am not saying it shoudl nto exist. I jsut think that destroyers are TOOOO effective on taht role. Make the game look even more stupid. If it was not for destroyers at least I could pretend that the gankers are being penalized when concord appears :P
Being able to put down an hilarious amount of DPS while cheap and having the tank of a wet paper bag is kind of a destroyers role, ganking freighters happens to fit within that role perfectly.

Working as intended.

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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1726 - 2014-07-10 22:59:43 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I am not saying it shoudl nto exist. I jsut think that destroyers are TOOOO effective on taht role. Make the game look even more stupid. If it was not for destroyers at least I could pretend that the gankers are being penalized when concord appears :P

So what dps/cost would be fair? Should gankers have to spend 20m for 700dps? 50m? 100m? 200m? There is already a exponential progression on isk/dps. A talos is ten times the cost of a t2 catalyst with only a little over twice the dps. A brutix is seven times the cost of a t2 catalyst with a little over 1.5 times the dps. Any nerf to destroyers hurts new players far more than it hurts suicide gankers. We have the money and skills to move up to cruisers, new players do not.

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1727 - 2014-07-10 23:40:41 UTC
DB Tank wrote:
Every one has a valid point of view


No, that's not even remotely true.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1728 - 2014-07-11 00:05:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
DB Tank wrote:
Every one has a valid point of view


No, that's not even remotely true.


"Everyone has a valid point of view" is what people who tell you to "do your research" tell themselves in order to convince themselves they're not deluded. Of course, once they've convinced themselves, this then flows over into what they tell others when their point of view is dismissed for the delusion it actually is.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Puppy Eating
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1729 - 2014-07-11 00:06:47 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:


Using scouts is a bit difficult if you have only one character, hiring bodyguards may make the trip not cost effective.




If you have made it to flying a Freighter without making friends. Then you should not be playing MMO's


Implying friends exist in EVE.

A 'friend' is just someone you haven't betrayed yet
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1730 - 2014-07-11 00:47:30 UTC
Puppy Eating wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:


Using scouts is a bit difficult if you have only one character, hiring bodyguards may make the trip not cost effective.




If you have made it to flying a Freighter without making friends. Then you should not be playing MMO's


Implying friends exist in EVE.

A 'friend' is just someone you haven't betrayed yet

Says someone who, very predictably, is in an NPC corp.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
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Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1731 - 2014-07-11 01:05:54 UTC
Puppy Eating wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:


Using scouts is a bit difficult if you have only one character, hiring bodyguards may make the trip not cost effective.




If you have made it to flying a Freighter without making friends. Then you should not be playing MMO's


Implying friends exist in EVE.

A 'friend' is just someone you haven't betrayed yet


Most people have friends in real life, most people share significant things in common with their real life friends, a significant number of people who play the MMO Eve Online manage to make the connection between the advantages of real life friends and friends in game.

You however have failed to make that connection.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1732 - 2014-07-11 02:13:06 UTC
Puppy Eating wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:


Using scouts is a bit difficult if you have only one character, hiring bodyguards may make the trip not cost effective.




If you have made it to flying a Freighter without making friends. Then you should not be playing MMO's


Implying friends exist in EVE.

A 'friend' is just someone you haven't betrayed yet


And this attitude is why you have none.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1733 - 2014-07-11 04:10:32 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Whenever someone comes out with null is safer tripe I tell them to run a simple test.

Take an empty, unfitted badger and park it on one of the busy jita gates, see how long it is before someone attacks.

Next take an unfitted badger and park it on a busy null sec gate. Keep on replacing the null sec badger untill the one in jita gets killed.



now.. put 20 plexes inside... and the jita one suddenly gets popped way faster .


Irrelevant situatiosn are not a good argument sorry. Usually you present reasonable ones, but that was not.


How so?

The point is to show that null sec is far more dangerous, this unfitted badger test is as simple as it gets and will clearly show which area is the more dangerous. A badger with 20 plex in it is far from normal.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1734 - 2014-07-11 04:17:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Not everyone that is agaisnt suicide gankers are carebears. Most of the real PVPers that I talk around aree agaisnt it, because it banalize the main focus of the game .

How does suicide ganking — the act of killing stuff at a cost and under severe time pressure, while still preferably generating a profit — “banalize” the main focus of the game (which involves a whole lot of killing stuff and generating profits)?
Are you quite sure these are “real PvPers” and not just people who wilfully impose restrictions on themselves for no particularly useful reason and then get annoyed when others don't do the same?

Kagura Nikon wrote:
now.. put 20 plexes inside... and the jita one suddenly gets popped way faster .

Irrelevant situatiosn are not a good argument sorry.
So why did you try to use one as an argument?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1735 - 2014-07-11 04:18:11 UTC
Puppy Eating wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:


Using scouts is a bit difficult if you have only one character, hiring bodyguards may make the trip not cost effective.




If you have made it to flying a Freighter without making friends. Then you should not be playing MMO's


Implying friends exist in EVE.

A 'friend' is just someone you haven't betrayed yet


Its funny how I have total trust with other goons when moving my stuff from deployment to deployment yet you more civilised people have nobody you can trust.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1736 - 2014-07-11 04:21:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Its funny how I have total trust with other goons when moving my stuff from deployment to deployment yet you more civilised people have nobody you can trust.

It's almost as if there's a reason why one of the seminal books on social trust and community building is named Bowling Alone…
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1737 - 2014-07-11 10:19:52 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I am not saying it shoudl nto exist. I jsut think that destroyers are TOOOO effective on taht role. Make the game look even more stupid. If it was not for destroyers at least I could pretend that the gankers are being penalized when concord appears :P

So what dps/cost would be fair? Should gankers have to spend 20m for 700dps? 50m? 100m? 200m? There is already a exponential progression on isk/dps. A talos is ten times the cost of a t2 catalyst with only a little over twice the dps. A brutix is seven times the cost of a t2 catalyst with a little over 1.5 times the dps. Any nerf to destroyers hurts new players far more than it hurts suicide gankers. We have the money and skills to move up to cruisers, new players do not.



You know very well that it is not so simple. But when you can afford to suicide gank any battleship with 80m on its modules, then its borderline dumb.

Yes there is an exponentail cost that is irrelevant because exactly the catalysis is absurd. I know that nerfign the destroyers is a problem because the ship has an INTENDED role (that is nto suicide ganking) that shoudl not be attacked. No one said the solution would be easy. I am just pointing that Catalysis make all other forms of engagement in high sec look so non efficient that soudns really dumb.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1738 - 2014-07-11 10:21:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:


Kagura Nikon wrote:
now.. put 20 plexes inside... and the jita one suddenly gets popped way faster .

Irrelevant situatiosn are not a good argument sorry.
So why did you try to use one as an argument?


I thought you were smart enough to understand the usage of an Ironic statement. Clearly I have to lower my expectations at these forums even more.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#1739 - 2014-07-11 10:24:20 UTC
The first kill of our Burn Jita events is done using 100+ noobships.

By the way, your signature makes your (terribly spelled) post extra funny.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1740 - 2014-07-11 10:28:09 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I am just pointing that Catalysis make all other forms of engagement in high sec look so non efficient that soudns really dumb.


That has nothing to do with the Catalyst. It has to do with whichever ship is the maximum dps for the cheapest price.

And you can thank CONCORD for that, by the way. That's why max dps is the only factor worth considering. So you don't get to ***** and moan about what your heavy handed, binary, magic space police mechanic forces people to do with what's left of their playstyle.

Carebears keep nerfing us. We keep adapting (because we're good players and carebears are not). The carebears keep complaining, showing that so long as our playstyle exists at all, they will never stop trying to get it nerfed. There will never be enough nerfs for them, until ganking is impossible. Their end goal is zero PvP in highsec.

I for one say hell no.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.