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The Abaddon

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Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2014-07-05 19:24:26 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Ok, now try pulses.


146k EHP

649 DPS @ 53+13 with Scorch

909 DPS @ 17+13 with Conflagration

[Abaddon, PVP]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5


Just an FYI, this doesn't actually fit.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-07-05 19:49:46 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Ok, now try pulses.


146k EHP

649 DPS @ 53+13 with Scorch

909 DPS @ 17+13 with Conflagration

[Abaddon, PVP]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5


Just an FYI, this doesn't actually fit.


It does fit.... You need a +3 to PG or CPU. Can't remember which.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-07-05 19:58:04 UTC
Deerin wrote:
[quote=Triakis Cadelanne]
You amarrian fanboy's need to make up your mind: When there is a cap usage bonus on a ship, you whine it is a useless bonus. When there is none, you whine there is not enough cap.
.

These bonus are a relic from when the Laser had built in damage mod and were prett much impossible to use on anything not Amarr because they drained too much cap.
Now Damage has been normalized across weapon type but Laser still use a lot of cap, it's a big price to pay for being the king of mid range.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2014-07-05 20:13:10 UTC
Lasers do about 15% more base damage than railguns.

The problem is not lasers, the problem is the Megathron's overpowered 8/4/7 slot layout and the fact that railguns for some unknown reason require so much less PG than artillery or lasers. They're supposed to cost less, but not that much less.

If the Apocalypse and Megathron switched their slot layouts, the Apoc would be the best BS. It wouldn't be by the margin the Mega is now due to the fitting disparity but it would still be the best.
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
Lux Inter Astra
#25 - 2014-07-05 21:28:51 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
This is the problem with the Abaddon:

http://i.imgur.com/U2ml1BC.png

10k EHP is not worth having less range, less DPS, 66% of the speed, a gigantic signature radius that gets destroyed by bombers, and double the cap drain. The cap drain on the Abaddon is so bad you can't even run the guns alone on a medium injector, and you can't fit a heavy injector without two grid mods.


No one uses tachs on an abaddon. Thats just silliness.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#26 - 2014-07-05 22:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
Xequecal wrote:


If you're fighting a "fleet" of battleships fitting a warp disruptor is ridiculous. You are not going to be within disruptor range of your opponents. Fleet fights don't happen at 20km. However, if you somehow did expect to be within 24km of the opponent, why aren't you using a Megathron with blasters? It's obviously far better than the Abaddon at that point.

Warp disruptor is theoretically good in small gang but guess what? Small gang and battleships don't go together anymore since they nerfed warp speeds.

The fact is a Tachyon Abaddon is flat out inferior to a rail Mega in basically every way, and a Pulse Abaddon is only "superior" to the Megathron against a narrow set of ranges (20 to 45km) and even in that range it's only slightly superior on DPS and EHP, and still has the monster cap drain/low speed/gigantic sig problems. On top of that it's useless past 60km and extremely inferior sub-20km where it's going to be competing against blasters.


This 'dying without being tackled' thing, who actually does this? All the pilots I fight would usually warp off before they die. Is this a null sec thing?
To be clear, If I fight another BS fleet, it's going to be on my terms, not theirs.
Which means I fight on a gate or get a warp in on top of them. Then I would TACKLE them and kill them all, with ships fitted for DPS.
Now honestly, I never said the Abby is the best ship for that, I'm just saying that it has a use and it's not a bad ship if used in that capacity.
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-07-05 23:04:56 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:

Which means I fight on a gate or get a warp in on top of them. Then I would TACKLE them and kill them all, with ships fitted for DPS.
Now honestly, I never said the Abby is the best ship for that, I'm just saying that it has a use and it's not a bad ship if used in that capacity.


Then you'll tell me how they'll stay under your disrupt range.
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#28 - 2014-07-05 23:36:16 UTC
There's no point in an abaddon. Just stop being a peasant and get a Napoc.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#29 - 2014-07-05 23:58:28 UTC
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:

Which means I fight on a gate or get a warp in on top of them. Then I would TACKLE them and kill them all, with ships fitted for DPS.
Now honestly, I never said the Abby is the best ship for that, I'm just saying that it has a use and it's not a bad ship if used in that capacity.


Then you'll tell me how they'll stay under your disrupt range.



Your question is hypothetical in nature. Are there 8 of "them"? Are there 50 of "them"? What are "they" flying? Do they scatter like roaches, or align in a parade?
If they aren't nano fit, the fastest BS is only 33 MS faster than the slowest BS. That's 330 meters in 10 seconds or 3300 meters in a hundred seconds. IF I don't overheat the point, they still will die if I just trail them.
I could give you hypothetical answers all day long, but if "they" don't have tackle fitted, I won't ever lose many ships. And if they don't have tank fitted, I'll kill like, 3 to 1 of the ones I catch.
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-07-06 00:41:42 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
[quote=Triakis Cadelanne]
Your question is hypothetical in nature.


I could answer, asking you if you know that a 30 m/s difference is way amplified when you use a MWD ? Which mean that your Abe will be slowly walking at about 780 m/s when a Megathron (which is not the fastest BS in the game) will be running at something like 1100 m/s ?

Still hypotetical because the Mega may or may not have a MWD fitted. It may or may not be used by someone with snakes. It may or may not have a Scram + Web + Lucky EC-600 combination so he'll outdamage you easily. You may have one more or one less plate than the Mega.

So, what's more hypotetical in my question than when you say "I'll warp on them, keep them pointed and kill them" ? Are there 8 of them ? Are they 50 of them ? Highly hypotetical stuff :/
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#31 - 2014-07-06 00:56:48 UTC
Agreed that it is all hypothetical.
I was just giving my opinion on fitting tackle, and how I approach a BS fight.

And my original intent was to just point out that the Abaddon has a role. (The role is NOT sniping) I'm not even trying to argue whether it's "better" than a Mega or Typhoon or Apoc or whatever.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-07-06 11:43:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
Oh gee, look what I just did! Silly billy, your problem was trying to force tachs with a reactor core!

But by all means keep arguing for an abaddon buff I fly amarr anyway.
[Abaddon, Abaddon fit]

Heat Sink II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Imperial Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener

Tracking Computer II
Sensor Booster II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I

Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Anti-EM Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Just for reference this outdamages the rails in all situations except where the rails are projecting past aurora range. Also, just like it did in the original comparison, this fit still has more EHP and more resists than the megethron fit did.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#33 - 2014-07-06 14:19:13 UTC
My god, this ******* thread.

The Abaddon is good for the same reason the NGeddon and Navpoc are good, flexibility of a weapon system with high DPS, good damage out to a decent range and good tracking with a beefy tank to back it up.

Also literally every fit in this tread is awful.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-07-06 14:56:24 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:

Also literally every fit in this tread is awful.

Okay if all the fits in this thread are awful please post your fit that isn't.
Gorn Arming
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-07-06 15:19:24 UTC
T2 tachyons don't fit neatly on a fleet Abaddon. Either use megabeams or meta 4 tachyons; either produces a decent enough fit. I think you end up needing a fitting implant for the meta tachyons, though; the fitting requirements on those are kinda absurd in general.

Fitting megapulses also produces something usable, but it doesn't really fill the same role as a rail mega.
Gefen Orion
Icebox Industries
#36 - 2014-07-07 08:44:20 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
Xequecal wrote:


If you're fighting a "fleet" of battleships fitting a warp disruptor is ridiculous. You are not going to be within disruptor range of your opponents. Fleet fights don't happen at 20km. However, if you somehow did expect to be within 24km of the opponent, why aren't you using a Megathron with blasters? It's obviously far better than the Abaddon at that point.

Warp disruptor is theoretically good in small gang but guess what? Small gang and battleships don't go together anymore since they nerfed warp speeds.

The fact is a Tachyon Abaddon is flat out inferior to a rail Mega in basically every way, and a Pulse Abaddon is only "superior" to the Megathron against a narrow set of ranges (20 to 45km) and even in that range it's only slightly superior on DPS and EHP, and still has the monster cap drain/low speed/gigantic sig problems. On top of that it's useless past 60km and extremely inferior sub-20km where it's going to be competing against blasters.


This 'dying without being tackled' thing, who actually does this? All the pilots I fight would usually warp off before they die. Is this a null sec thing?
To be clear, If I fight another BS fleet, it's going to be on my terms, not theirs.
Which means I fight on a gate or get a warp in on top of them. Then I would TACKLE them and kill them all, with ships fitted for DPS.
Now honestly, I never said the Abby is the best ship for that, I'm just saying that it has a use and it's not a bad ship if used in that capacity.


During fleet battles, you use bubbles for warp disruption. lots and lots of bubbles. That's why you dont need points on a BS fleet. Fleets usually flies with dictors, logi, ceptors depends on your alliance doctrines.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#37 - 2014-07-07 09:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
IIshira wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:

Also literally every fit in this tread is awful.

Okay if all the fits in this thread are awful please post your fit that isn't.


K

[Abaddon, Hellcat 2P S]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
True Sansha Armor Explosive Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Heat Sink II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II

Bouncer II x3

A fairly standard Hellcat style Abaddon, ~700 DPS@ 60 with Sentries, ~900 at brawling ranges with Conflag, 830 with INMF, 219K EHP before implants or heat, good resists across the board. You can also run a single plate fit which pushes the DPS up nicely but you go down to around 175K EHP pre-heat.

No it isn't the same as a rail mega, but thats because it isn't a rail mega, it is a close-mid range brawling BS that, with good positioning will out-tank and out-gank any other fleet BS in the 60K bracket while having the tracking to easily engage HACs and the like.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-07-07 11:19:14 UTC
Oh gee, he extended his EHP slightly by leaving a thermal resist hole, AND exchanged a sensor booster for a tracking computer. We got a real expert over here. I'm blown away by your amazing hellcat fit.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#39 - 2014-07-07 11:32:52 UTC
Abaddon cap life sucks, true story

However like a ton of others have said most laser Battleships Should have a cap booster fitted, even with controlled bursts 5 ( the one that decreases cap cost on your guns ) and perfect cap management skills your going to see some issues. The Upside like alot of others have said is the amazing tanking power of the abby even when compared to a megathron, Sure mega can get the same tank and More DPS blaster fit but T2 Pulse get longer range than the Void will any day with very respectable DPS.

And if your looking for a ship that wont destabilize get a Bhaalgorn and vampire all the things, cap issues solved

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#40 - 2014-07-07 11:42:37 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Oh gee, he extended his EHP slightly by leaving a thermal resist hole, AND exchanged a sensor booster for a tracking computer. We got a real expert over here. I'm blown away by your amazing hellcat fit.


Did I say it would be revolutionary, I just said it wouldn't be awful.