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Repurpose the Gas Cloud Harvesting skill
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A'Tolkar
Carlson's Raiders
#1 - 2014-06-30 18:57:29 UTC
Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? I thought not. Granted, I would still train the skill to level 5 just to use T2 gas harvesters. But the +1 gas harvester/level? Sounds a bit antiquated now? I remember putting five on a Moa and jet-canning my gas. Just not necessary now.

How about +5% yield/level? And if not that, how about -5% cycle duration/level. After all, Mining doesn't give you the ability to fit one more Miner I per level. It gives +5% yield. The number of Miner I one can fit are limited to ship size: turret hardpoints, CPU and PG. It should be the same for Gas Cloud Harvesters. And if there is some worry about someone putting 8 gas cloud harvester II's on a Battleship (I say let them) and that is a bad idea, then make it so they can only be fitted onto Mining Frigates (Venture/Prospect).
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2014-06-30 19:49:55 UTC
Yield is not really a good bonus. 25% of 40 m³ is only 50 m³ yield, not exactly thrilling. Less cycle time, however, would be absolutely awesome. Every second and, adding up, minute that you don't need to spend in the gas cloud is a minute more which you can spend on your POS, tinkering with the gas silos and reactors.

UI Improvement Collective

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A'Tolkar
Carlson's Raiders
#3 - 2014-06-30 20:46:29 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Yield is not really a good bonus. 25% of 40 m³ is only 50 m³ yield, not exactly thrilling. Less cycle time, however, would be absolutely awesome. Every second and, adding up, minute that you don't need to spend in the gas cloud is a minute more which you can spend on your POS, tinkering with the gas silos and reactors.



You're right. Just checked out gas cloud harvester II. 20 m^3. A 25% bonus would be 25 m^3. So unless the cloud is in units of 5 m^3 (and some are units of 10 m^3) AND the skill is level 5, there is no bonus at all. Better off with a cycle time decrease.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-06-30 23:10:39 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Yield is not really a good bonus. 25% of 40 m³ is only 50 m³ yield, not exactly thrilling. Less cycle time, however, would be absolutely awesome. Every second and, adding up, minute that you don't need to spend in the gas cloud is a minute more which you can spend on your POS, tinkering with the gas silos and reactors.

Or a minute more you have to be GTFO before the local residents finally decide to open their d-scan and find out someone is eating all their precious C5/6 gas sites XD
Pearl Canopus
#5 - 2014-07-03 14:59:14 UTC
+1 for harmonizing skill in line to other mining/harvesting skills.

Means reducing cycle time or activating power or anything else.
T2-harvester needs Level IV (comparable to Mining IV for Miner II and Strip Miner).
T2-"strip" harvester needs Level V.

So Ice Harvesting skill would need a harmonization too in line to mining skill too.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#6 - 2014-07-03 15:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Pearl Canopus wrote:
+1 for harmonizing skill in line to other mining/harvesting skills.

Means reducing cycle time or activating power or anything else.
T2-harvester needs Level IV (comparable to Mining IV for Miner II and Strip Miner).
T2-"strip" harvester needs Level V.

So Ice Harvesting skill would need a harmonization too in line to mining skill too.

I would also be ok with all skills to 5 for T2, like some other skills, you are mostly all-in with those mods anyway.

Still +1 for the change of the gas harvesting skill. Makes not much sense as it is. I remember when I trained for the T2s that I tried all kinds of ships, and none came close to the venture and that has 2 turrets max. Useless skill value, as is.
Lothros Andastar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-07-03 15:21:27 UTC
Try mining exploding gas in a Venture. I'll wait.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#8 - 2014-07-03 15:24:09 UTC
Decreased cycle time seems reasonable. Ninja gas miners provide plenty of entertainment in WH's, whether you're keeping an eye out for them or you are one today. This would encourage that behavior.

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RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-07-03 20:23:40 UTC
+1 I support this idea

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Pearl Canopus
#10 - 2014-07-04 08:52:09 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
I would also be ok with all skills to 5 for T2, like some other skills, you are mostly all-in with those mods anyway.
Yes, sure. If there are no further dependencies on the skill level 5, it might be the T2-level instead.

But mainly the mining/harvesting skills need to get harmonized. Right now it's not self-explanatory.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#11 - 2014-07-04 10:21:34 UTC
Excellent suggestion, bonus to cycle time is definately smart. Level 4 for t2 makes good sense, level v to milk that last bit of efficiency, some will, some won't, but nice to have the option.

+1

Ccp put it in place for the next patch please.

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Saint Germain
Sekundu
#12 - 2014-07-05 08:16:15 UTC
And does the skill need to be so expensive either/?
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-07-05 08:25:47 UTC
A'Tolkar wrote:
Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? .


Yes.

There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant.

For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining.

The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place.

Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now.
Saint Germain
Sekundu
#14 - 2014-07-05 08:39:44 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
A'Tolkar wrote:
Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? .


Yes.

There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant.

For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining.

The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place.

Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now.


I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2014-07-05 08:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Saint Germain wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
A'Tolkar wrote:
Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? .


Yes.

There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant.

For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining.

The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place.

Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now.


I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level.


Exactly that.

Then again: Why would someone use another ship than a Prospect for Gas Mining?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#16 - 2014-07-05 08:56:30 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Exactly that.

Then again: Why would someone use another ship than a Prospect for Gas Mining?

Yes, but why is the gas miner not 'mining frigate'-only like the strip miners are exclusive?

As long as they are not, the skill needs to be changed.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2014-07-05 09:12:06 UTC
Choice ... perhaps? Ugh

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
A'Tolkar
Carlson's Raiders
#18 - 2014-07-08 19:10:01 UTC
Saint Germain wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
A'Tolkar wrote:
Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? .


Yes.

There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant.

For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining.

The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place.

Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now.


I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level.


At least some people can read the OP. In fact I could have sworn that I said something along these lines:

And if there is some worry about someone putting 8 gas cloud harvester II's on a Battleship (I say let them) ...
OK, so at the end I implied that if CCP thought removing the limit and allowing 8 harvesters on a BS was OP, then limit them to Mining Frigate class ships.

And this: Then again: Why would someone use another ship than a Prospect for Gas Mining? :)

I mean really? WHY?
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#19 - 2014-07-08 19:28:32 UTC
A'Tolkar wrote:
Saint Germain wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
A'Tolkar wrote:
Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? .


Yes.

There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant.

For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining.

The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place.

Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now.


I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level.


At least some people can read the OP. In fact I could have sworn that I said something along these lines:

And if there is some worry about someone putting 8 gas cloud harvester II's on a Battleship (I say let them) ...
OK, so at the end I implied that if CCP thought removing the limit and allowing 8 harvesters on a BS was OP, then limit them to Mining Frigate class ships.

And this: Then again: Why would someone use another ship than a Prospect for Gas Mining? :)

I mean really? WHY?



The mining rokh shall rise again
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#20 - 2014-07-08 20:15:26 UTC
A'Tolkar wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Yield is not really a good bonus. 25% of 40 m³ is only 50 m³ yield, not exactly thrilling. Less cycle time, however, would be absolutely awesome. Every second and, adding up, minute that you don't need to spend in the gas cloud is a minute more which you can spend on your POS, tinkering with the gas silos and reactors.



You're right. Just checked out gas cloud harvester II. 20 m^3. A 25% bonus would be 25 m^3. So unless the cloud is in units of 5 m^3 (and some are units of 10 m^3) AND the skill is level 5, there is no bonus at all. Better off with a cycle time decrease.


Depends on which gas. All Cytoserocins are 10m3 per unit. Polymers clouds range from 2 - 10m3 iirc. So a time reduction would be much more useful.

If memory serves, at maximum skills it currently takes 27 minutes to fill a Venture. So yeah. Cycle time reduction would be sweet.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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