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[news] Federal Government announces handover of Arcurio
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Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#81 - 2014-06-18 22:18:40 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:

So basically we just let the Black Eagles take over?


No, no, dear. Ruthlessly efficient, not efficiently ruthless.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#82 - 2014-06-18 22:22:49 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:

So basically we just let the Black Eagles take over?


No, no, dear. Ruthlessly efficient, not efficiently ruthless.

Oh, my mistake.Big smile

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#83 - 2014-06-19 02:15:18 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
No! Even better! We all hold a vote to see who'll be Executor and then we depose him the day after!


A political system where we Caldari get to overthrow whoever the Gallente elected yesterday does hold a certain elemental charm, I must admit.


Hevaima Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#84 - 2014-06-20 11:07:26 UTC
Ollie Rundle wrote:

To make a profit from a deal you actually need something to gain leverage with. How will the State, the Federation or any other human-administered faction one cares to name bargain with an entity that fields several thousand pilots or soldiers that are effectively immortal, that are independently wealthy beyond the dreams of most non-capsuleers, that subsequently have no fear of death, no fear of sanction, no need to bend a knee and seek only to take by force what isn't yet theirs?


I might point out that the independent wealth of capsuleers remains counted only in the digital fiat of the ISK which remains controlled by CONCORD through the SCC. Capsuleers might not fear death or sanction but would they also be as unafraid of having their personal accounts wiped clean by CONCORD while its signatories currency swap their own reserves of ISK to a new standard?
Ollie Rundle
#85 - 2014-06-20 12:38:00 UTC
Hevaima Gesakaarin wrote:
Ollie Rundle wrote:

To make a profit from a deal you actually need something to gain leverage with. How will the State, the Federation or any other human-administered faction one cares to name bargain with an entity that fields several thousand pilots or soldiers that are effectively immortal, that are independently wealthy beyond the dreams of most non-capsuleers, that subsequently have no fear of death, no fear of sanction, no need to bend a knee and seek only to take by force what isn't yet theirs?


I might point out that the independent wealth of capsuleers remains counted only in the digital fiat of the ISK which remains controlled by CONCORD through the SCC. Capsuleers might not fear death or sanction but would they also be as unafraid of having their personal accounts wiped clean by CONCORD while its signatories currency swap their own reserves of ISK to a new standard?


Which is why the original answer was given in a post-CONCORD context.
Hevaima Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#86 - 2014-06-20 12:59:39 UTC
Ollie Rundle wrote:
Hevaima Gesakaarin wrote:
Ollie Rundle wrote:

To make a profit from a deal you actually need something to gain leverage with. How will the State, the Federation or any other human-administered faction one cares to name bargain with an entity that fields several thousand pilots or soldiers that are effectively immortal, that are independently wealthy beyond the dreams of most non-capsuleers, that subsequently have no fear of death, no fear of sanction, no need to bend a knee and seek only to take by force what isn't yet theirs?


I might point out that the independent wealth of capsuleers remains counted only in the digital fiat of the ISK which remains controlled by CONCORD through the SCC. Capsuleers might not fear death or sanction but would they also be as unafraid of having their personal accounts wiped clean by CONCORD while its signatories currency swap their own reserves of ISK to a new standard?


Which is why the original answer was given in a post-CONCORD context.


Yes, which is why I pointed out that in a post CONCORD era, what will capsuleers measure their wealth in but the hard assets they already own? What will those crews, support staff, and clone technicians be paid with in the absence of a currency?
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#87 - 2014-06-20 13:11:34 UTC
Currencies come and go. If ISK disappears a new decentralized crypto-currency will take its place. Several in fact, until one reaches enough popularity to be the norm among eggers. A post-CONCORD setting would merely mean the end of CONCORD payouts, and the beginning of a whole new trade and economic paradigm shift.

Remember, the use of ISK and capsuleer markets limits us and our financial impacts significantly dirtside. Not only would all the support staff we rely on get paid, suddenly everyone else would too, in return for even greater projection of our power.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Ollie Rundle
#88 - 2014-06-20 13:13:33 UTC
Hevaima Gesakaarin wrote:
Yes, which is why I pointed out that in a post CONCORD era, what will capsuleers measure their wealth in but the hard assets they already own? What will those crews, support staff, and clone technicians be paid with in the absence of a currency?


To be fair, you didn't mention a post-CONCORD era at all. You alluded to CONCORD actively wiping the personal accounts of capsuleers clean while at the same time allowing its signatories to swap ISK - which in a post-CONCORD age I accept could become instantaneously worthless - for a new standard. That's all semantics though.

In any case, how they pay their people are concerns for loyalists only.

It's already been stated that most null-sec capsuleers have already divorced themselves of most of these concerns. I don't claim to know how they manage to encourage their crews, support staff or clone technicians to continue to work for them in the absence of currency but there's not many we'll find that will acknowledge paying said workers even now. Perhaps its psychotropic drugs or liberal use of TCMCs? Perhaps it's families held at gunpoint?

The possibilities are limitless, once one's spurious ties to humanity are no longer a driving force in decision making.
Hevaima Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#89 - 2014-06-20 13:37:43 UTC
Ollie Rundle wrote:
Hevaima Gesakaarin wrote:
Yes, which is why I pointed out that in a post CONCORD era, what will capsuleers measure their wealth in but the hard assets they already own? What will those crews, support staff, and clone technicians be paid with in the absence of a currency?


To be fair, you didn't mention a post-CONCORD era at all. You alluded to CONCORD actively wiping the personal accounts of capsuleers clean while at the same time allowing its signatories to swap ISK - which in a post-CONCORD age I accept could become instantaneously worthless - for a new standard. That's all semantics though.

In any case, how they pay their people are concerns for loyalists only.

It's already been stated that most null-sec capsuleers have already divorced themselves of most of these concerns. I don't claim to know how they manage to encourage their crews, support staff or clone technicians to continue to work for them in the absence of currency but there's not many we'll find that will acknowledge paying said workers even now. Perhaps its psychotropic drugs or liberal use of TCMCs? Perhaps it's families held at gunpoint?

The possibilities are limitless, once one's spurious ties to humanity are no longer a driving force in decision making.


Well this is really all rather speculative, since in my mind the absence of CONCORD or another similar controlling entity regulating freelance capsuleers would require the simultaneous societal collapse of its signatories. In which case the likely outcome if we as capsuleers survive the hypothetical end of present civilization and its associated infrastructure is some sort of feudalism where we become aristocrats fighting over the remnants, picking them over for resources, technology, and most importantly: spare clones.
Ollie Rundle
#90 - 2014-06-20 13:54:07 UTC
Hevaima Gesakaarin wrote:
Well this is really all rather speculative, since in my mind the absence of CONCORD or another similar controlling entity regulating freelance capsuleers would require the simultaneous societal collapse of its signatories. In which case the likely outcome if we as capsuleers survive the hypothetical end of present civilization and its associated infrastructure is some sort of feudalism where we become aristocrats fighting over the remnants, picking them over for resources, technology, and most importantly: spare clones.


That's certainly one future we might end up with. Although, as long as we're being purely speculative, there are other emerging possibilities based on where current research in some fields seems to be headed.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-06-20 23:26:17 UTC
You know, if I can be totally honest, I'm actually just drumming my fingers, waiting for the Caldari lunatic fringe to do a complete 180 and start accusing Heth and the CPD of being a Federal plot.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#92 - 2014-06-21 00:24:53 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
You know, if I can be totally honest, I'm actually just drumming my fingers, waiting for the Caldari lunatic fringe to do a complete 180 and start accusing Heth and the CPD of being a Federal plot.


Nah. Every society has flaws based on it's ideology and Heth was ours. A desire for more control and more security. Forgetting about the dangers of centralised authority. Forgetting about the wisdom of competition at all levels, not just in the workforce, but in the boardroom.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2014-06-22 07:40:27 UTC
Do you consider yourself to be part of the Caldari lunatic fringe, Pieter? I don't. I actually think of you as representative of sensible, rational Caldari.

And you don't really have a fringe because you buzz-cut.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#94 - 2014-07-02 20:20:57 UTC
The handover of Arcurio to Caldari administration was officially concluded yesterday afternoon.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Anslo
Scope Works
#95 - 2014-07-02 20:24:35 UTC
I bought a special little flag to wave around just for the occasion.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#96 - 2014-07-03 14:42:35 UTC
Bought, Anslo, or stole?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Anslo
Scope Works
#97 - 2014-07-03 15:32:30 UTC
Bought you jack ass.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#98 - 2014-07-03 20:21:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Dex Nederland
Morwen Lagann wrote:
The handover of Arcurio to Ishukone administration was officially concluded yesterday afternoon.

Fixed that for you.

For the rest of the cluster, Federation or those aligned with Ishukone, there is not a difference between Caldari and Ishukone. For some of us, the difference between Ishukone and the Federation is minor.

Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#99 - 2014-07-03 21:02:20 UTC
Dex Nederland wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
The handover of Arcurio to Ishukone administration was officially concluded yesterday afternoon.

Fixed that for you.

For the rest of the cluster, Federation or those aligned with Ishukone, there is not a difference between Caldari and Ishukone. For some of us, the difference between Ishukone and the Federation is minor.


Well, that's a LITTLE harsh, Nederland-haan. Liberal or not, they're still one of the Okusaiiken Deksam.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#100 - 2014-07-04 03:32:17 UTC
Apologies everybody. I've been busy doing actual work.

What's going on in this thread? Anything interesting beyond the news?

Katrina Oniseki