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W space little things.

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Alexander McKeon
Perkone
Caldari State
#101 - 2014-07-02 18:54:11 UTC
mynnna wrote:

The difference being that DED site upgrades "work" in a way that is at least beneficial and welcome to the owners of the space, whereas the wormhole generators are just a means to invite more bored wormhole pilots to come in and roam your space and kill your ratters. Evil
Alternatively, it's a way for your small gangs to come into W-Space and potentially get fights. Sadly almost every null gang I've encountered gets to a wormhole and stops like they're missing a magic key. :(
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#102 - 2014-07-02 19:01:09 UTC
mynnna wrote:

I'm not going to let it go. You sort of missed my point in the first place, which is that the so-called upgrade isn't. Right now it essentially reads "please voluntarily install this to get access to a area of space you don't care about and in exchange more people who want to shoot you can get to your space more easily." Needless to say there is a reason why no renter has ever asked me to install one of these upgrades, ever. You're then proposing to add the line "and oh yeah, because some wormholer believes you think this is an actual benefit, this upgrade also spawns NPC interceptors all over the place, because he's too lazy to tackle people himself."

If you want the upgrade to be changed so as to be an improvement to wspace life, give nullsec system owners a reason to actually want to install it. For example, if installing one meant that (in addition to the extra wormholes themselves) my existing anomalies also occasionally spawned small sleeper patrols, other small groups appeared on gates, in belts, etc. and larger groups appeared in their own sites, all of which could escalate based on rules similar to those in existing wspace sites, that would be attractive. That would be something I could look at and go, ok, travel and regular solo pve is a risk if I install this because of the small patrols, but on the other hand those groups and the larger ones mean a few levels of group pve content, so this is worth installing in some systems.

Quoting for the new page; this idea has some real potential.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#103 - 2014-07-02 19:06:03 UTC
Alexander McKeon wrote:
mynnna wrote:

The difference being that DED site upgrades "work" in a way that is at least beneficial and welcome to the owners of the space, whereas the wormhole generators are just a means to invite more bored wormhole pilots to come in and roam your space and kill your ratters. Evil
Alternatively, it's a way for your small gangs to come into W-Space and potentially get fights. Sadly almost every null gang I've encountered gets to a wormhole and stops like they're missing a magic key. :(


While I can't speak for all of nullsec, we have plenty enough people roaming our regions for our small gangs to fight as it is, without opening the door for more. Maybe it's different in the eastern half of eve, what with the vast lack of NPC space for roamers to base from and live in.

Anyway, I'll bow out and stop derailing for now. Smile

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
June Ting
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#104 - 2014-07-02 19:24:10 UTC
Tying it to military index is suicidal. I'd be stupid to install it in my most populated ratting systems from a self-interest perspective.

If it were tied to sov index rather than to military index, it would make a ton of sense -- I could install it for better roaming opportunities starting from a non-ratting staging/waypoint system that I'd controlled for a while.

I fight for the freedom of my people.
chickenandbiskets
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#105 - 2014-07-02 20:05:42 UTC
The little things? Lol how could everyone miss the fact that sleepers still don't have moving turrets? I mean great hulls in all but the Lasers and missiles still appear out of thin air (well space) usually several km from the ship itself. On top of that introduce sleeper version of mods by way of fragmented sections of blueprints in order to make a complete BP or something to that effect. That way the wormhole community can have its own monopoly on something in the game besides fun.

- Ice spawns
- Personnel ship array
- Same sig ID after DT
- Roaming sleepers
- Ability to send probes into a wormhole only if your within 500km
- Dual statics in all systems
- No true closed system
- Fix C1/C2 wormhole color
- Ore sites return to scan sites
- Sleeper capital ships
- Mid warp T3 mod changes
- Industry bear Black Hole haven
- BOB as super rare spawn that nobody can defeat but his minions drop fat loot or lore books if your into that sort of thing.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#106 - 2014-07-02 20:52:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Aiyshimin
mynnna wrote:

I'm not going to let it go. You sort of missed my point in the first place, which is that the so-called upgrade isn't. Right now it essentially reads "please voluntarily install this to get access to a area of space you don't care about and in exchange more people who want to shoot you can get to your space more easily." Needless to say there is a reason why no renter has ever asked me to install one of these upgrades, ever. You're then proposing to add the line "and oh yeah, because some wormholer believes you think this is an actual benefit, this upgrade also spawns NPC interceptors all over the place, because he's too lazy to tackle people himself."

If you want the upgrade to be changed so as to be an improvement to wspace life, give nullsec system owners a reason to actually want to install it. For example, if installing one meant that (in addition to the extra wormholes themselves) my existing anomalies also occasionally spawned small sleeper patrols, other small groups appeared on gates, in belts, etc. and larger groups appeared in their own sites, all of which could escalate based on rules similar to those in existing wspace sites, that would be attractive. That would be something I could look at and go, ok, travel and regular solo pve is a risk if I install this because of the small patrols, but on the other hand those groups and the larger ones mean a few levels of group pve content, so this is worth installing in some systems.


Most common wormhole in C5s is a K162 from null sec, so obviously there is interest to using wormhole space, most commonly nullseccers use wormholes as routes to empire space.

However the second part I don't understand. You already have an upgrade that spawns wormholes into an easily secured system containing sleepers worth of billions, but you'd want some mini-versions to spawn inside your null sec system instead? Why not simply raid the wormhole system for the anoms?
Sulo Hayha
Perkone
Caldari State
#107 - 2014-07-02 20:59:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sulo Hayha
Hatshepsut IV wrote:
On another note, can we get the ability to split the probe scanner and d-scan from the same nested window?


Oh god YES.

While you're at it, make "Recover Active Probes" button either require confirmation or make the gap between that and "Analyze" a BIT larger.
Also - shortcut for "Analyze" would be nice.


Rek Seven wrote:
Roaming sleepers - sleepers should travel through wormhole space, not just wait in sites to be killed. The more sites you run, the more roaming sleepers you awaken.


Why not make sleepers also spawn on WH grid if lots of ships jumped through?
Ammount based on number of jumps and system class.
Also - make them appear randomly near POS or POCO.
You know, 'coz Sleepers are evil and we are trespassing here.


Chitsa Jason wrote:
5. Hide the system name of the wormhole. People already use tools to determine how many moons and planets there are, or who lives there by looking at J sig. Make it so it is a bit harder for players to understand where they are. I know players would make sure eventually to come up with tools which tell which system it is but for a while it would be hilarious chaos.


Sounds evil.
I love it :D

EDIT: Might be even better if you could deploy beacons that cannot be probbed and require fuel like POS to name them for selected group of people (corporation, alliance, friendly corporations/alliances) kinda like access to channels.


Chitsa Jason wrote:
11. Visual representation of polarization timer. It can be a bit tricky as there can be multiple polarization timers. The most simple solution to show the longest one.


Could work if it used UI like the one in Mobile Depot (while anchoring or in RF).


Chitsa Jason wrote:
22. Give sleepers ability to randomly drop sleeper Faction/Dead-space loot.

23. Give security status increase for killing sleepers. Drones have it now so sleepers should.

(ran out of allowed quotes per post...)

22. Or just T3 stuff so they dont have to make whole new line of deadspace stuffs.

23. Drones reside in K-Space, CONDORD does not give a flying **** about Sleepers in W-Space.


My 2 cents:
W-Space was supposed to be unknown and dangerous, yet people started moving in, almost every bit of mechanic behind wormholes has already been figured out so why not change some stuff?
- Static wormholes are making living here too easy, IMHO the static wormhole should lead not to specific class but ANYWHERE in W-Space (and K-Space for C1-3), wormholes should spawn without the need for player to probe it, more wandering wormholes, less connections to K-Space (especially 0.0) and more to W-Space.
- Special wormholes, you know, they are supposed to be unstable and unknown, yet in reality they are neither, sure the regular wotmholes are necesary but just take the "Unstable" out of their name and instead make REAL "Unstable Wormholes", the kind that might collapse anytime, lead to anywhere, even change the destination or damage your ship while jumping through.
- Site spawns should be more or less random like Quarantaine Area, but a bit more limited (for example: any cruiser can be the trigger), there should also be extra spawn(s?) if you stay on site grid long enough.
- More system effects (weapon range upgrade? 2x more sleepers?) also some extremely hostile ones and the kind that fucks with your basic ship functions in C6 (disabled Shields, all missiles are FoF, corrosive clouds, random engine/warp failures)
- New Sleeper content, 0.0 has their DED why not make something similar for W-Space? Also, maybe Sleeper Capital Ships in C5/6 capital escalations (might want to make them require 3-4 same capitals on grid though instead of regular 1-2) or just special anomaly (kinda like the incursions)?
- Not WH-Specific but.. abandoned structures like POSes, POCOs, Bubbles, Mobile Depots.. (and so on) should auto-unanchor if not used for a long time



TL;DR?
W-Space should be more unknown and dangerous than it is now.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#108 - 2014-07-02 21:29:27 UTC
1. Ability to resize probe and map windows dynamically. Right now probes window cannot be downsized beyond a certain size, and the window with buttons Solar Map and Star Map cannot be resized at all. its clunky.

The idea is to have minimal clutter on the screen while probing and shifting between solar system map and star map.

2. Ability to deploy more then 8 probes - a dedicated max skilled prober should be able to monitor more then 2 locations at once.

3. Ability to move probe clusters around independent of one another. lets say I launch 2 clusters of probes, 4 each, and monitor 2 distinct locations on the solar map - a gate and station for example - this is for PvP obviously. Then if I need to move 1 set of probes from station to another gate, I would need to drag individual probes down to new position via shift-key. it should be quick. a pre-set deploys 4 combat probes, they are grouped into cluster A. another click deploys another set, cluster B. Can move and re-size clusters independently of one another.

4. Delayed k162 spawn timer, by like 30 seconds or so.

5. Enable smartbombing on wormholes - or exclusively in red giants. it can get gay I know, but as it stands smartbomb camps should be viable in a red giant.

6. More relic sites and low-sec connections to c5-c6 please :)
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#109 - 2014-07-02 21:38:03 UTC  |  Edited by: LUMINOUS SPIRIT
corbexx wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
well theres problem with flux generator upgrade it does not generate wormholes at all in upgraded nullsec systems it should be looked into and to be fixed.



It attually does work it just doesn't work how 99% of people think and so people assume its broken. Its not ideal though I will say that



oops my mistake, deleting this post.
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2014-07-02 21:42:21 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
well theres problem with flux generator upgrade it does not generate wormholes at all in upgraded nullsec systems it should be looked into and to be fixed.



It attually does work it just doesn't work how 99% of people think and so people assume its broken. Its not ideal though I will say that



Im fairly certain that flux generator does establish more incoming connections, but they are k162 incoming, therefore they must be opened from the other side to appear in your null. So, potential wormholes are there, but to activate you need dudes on the other side. Which, obviously, makes it useless.


CCP Greyscale has posted already about it here in the thread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4765751#post4765751

Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#111 - 2014-07-02 21:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Serendipity Lost
Aiyshimin wrote:
mynnna wrote:


Mynna puts hand out begging for even more free stuff within safety of local and intel channels (no real risk)


Most common wormhole in C5s is a K162 from null sec, so obviously there is interest to using wormhole space, most commonly nullseccers use wormholes as routes to empire space.

However the second part I don't understand. You already have an upgrade that spawns wormholes into an easily secured system containing sleepers worth of billions, but you'd want some mini-versions to spawn inside your null sec system instead? Why not simply raid the wormhole system for the anoms?



That should clear it up for you. They don't want to come into a wh, that's pretty much proven all day every day. They want more free stuff while wrapped all comfy in the cover of cynos/jump and titan bridges. You're looking at what they are saying from a wh perspective. Put on that risk averse bonnet you discarded years ago and look again. All will be clear. They don't want engaging content they want to steamroll with superior numbers and massive assets.

And that's fine - they have amassed an empire, so it's natural to want to wield it. All I want to do is come out of my wh and gank the crap out of them before they can run to safety.

There are no white knights here. We are both indulging in self interest.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#112 - 2014-07-02 21:50:19 UTC
Most important.

delayed local while jumping from wh to k-space for pvp.

I need....just.....10....seconds...... to get a warp-able hit on that ratting ishtar :)
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2014-07-02 22:40:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
mynnna wrote:

I'm not going to let it go. You sort of missed my point in the first place, which is that the so-called upgrade isn't. Right now it essentially reads "please voluntarily install this to get access to a area of space you don't care about and in exchange more people who want to shoot you can get to your space more easily." Needless to say there is a reason why no renter has ever asked me to install one of these upgrades, ever. You're then proposing to add the line "and oh yeah, because some wormholer believes you think this is an actual benefit, this upgrade also spawns NPC interceptors all over the place, because he's too lazy to tackle people himself."

If you want the upgrade to be changed so as to be an improvement to wspace life, give nullsec system owners a reason to actually want to install it. For example, if installing one meant that (in addition to the extra wormholes themselves) my existing anomalies also occasionally spawned small sleeper patrols, other small groups appeared on gates, in belts, etc. and larger groups appeared in their own sites, all of which could escalate based on rules similar to those in existing wspace sites, that would be attractive. That would be something I could look at and go, ok, travel and regular solo pve is a risk if I install this because of the small patrols, but on the other hand those groups and the larger ones mean a few levels of group pve content, so this is worth installing in some systems.


I don't think people in null sec should have the benefits of wormhole space without actually going into wormholes. If the upgrade worked "properly" it would be used by people looking, pretty much exclusively, for wormhole PVP/PVE.

IMHO a group wishing to use the quantum flux generator should not have to mess around with all that military index rubbish. They should be able to put these structures up to effectively create a set number of statics in a specific null sec system. This would clearly need to be designed carefully to prevent null groups from dominating wormhole space.

In your opinion, do you think more renter would use the upgrade if it was changed in such a way?

Edit: corbexx, sorry for going off topic...

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Zara Arran
Overload This
TURBOFEED OR GLORY
#114 - 2014-07-02 22:49:02 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Most important.

delayed local while jumping from wh to k-space for pvp.

I need....just.....10....seconds...... to get a warp-able hit on that ratting ishtar :)



To be honest.. It should not just be delayed, but until you reach a gate or a station, it shouldn't even detect there is someone in local, let alone the name of the pilot. Local supposedly exists only due to detection when someone jumps through the gate.. not on grid with a gate should mean not in local.

And Chitsa... I think i proposed your nr.5 idea on the eve online forums when you were in the CSM ;) Funny to see it coming back from you proposed to your successor.


Other things:

Managing corp/alliance roles
Small things like: directors also getting the notification when people leave the corp, perhaps the ability to tie alts to a main for the corporation leadership, etc would help. Bigger fixes (but needed) are: the corporation roles are also a mess: the number of clicks and drop down menus and the difference between grantable roles/ titles, and between headquarters/stationed at etc.. not clear and tideous.

Corporation asset management:
The interface and possibilities of corporation management is out of date. In any system, you would think that the technology would allow for people to register per corp at the very least how many POSes are in a system, how much fuel/stront they have, and to be able to assign assets/people per POS and track them. Not going into the POSes themselves as requested...
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2014-07-02 22:55:42 UTC
Zara Arran wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Most important.

delayed local while jumping from wh to k-space for pvp.

I need....just.....10....seconds...... to get a warp-able hit on that ratting ishtar :)



To be honest.. It should not just be delayed, but until you reach a gate or a station, it shouldn't even detect there is someone in local, let alone the name of the pilot.


I think a simple "fix" to local would be to delay it until your session change cloak ends... I don't understand why it hasn't be addressed already as ccp have already said the free and instant intel mechanic is bad.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#116 - 2014-07-02 23:29:48 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
2. Ability to deploy more then 8 probes - a dedicated max skilled prober should be able to monitor more then 2 locations at once.

3. Ability to move probe clusters around independent of one another. lets say I launch 2 clusters of probes, 4 each, and monitor 2 distinct locations on the solar map - a gate and station for example - this is for PvP obviously. Then if I need to move 1 set of probes from station to another gate, I would need to drag individual probes down to new position via shift-key. it should be quick. a pre-set deploys 4 combat probes, they are grouped into cluster A. another click deploys another set, cluster B. Can move and re-size clusters independently of one another.

4. Delayed k162 spawn timer, by like 30 seconds or so.

5. Enable smartbombing on wormholes - or exclusively in red giants. it can get gay I know, but as it stands smartbomb camps should be viable in a red giant.

and we were going so well....
all of these are real bad ideas that make scanning WAY too easy
and SB on WHs? yeah, go to lowsec for that kind of crap

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Alexis Nightwish
#117 - 2014-07-02 23:41:08 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

2. Ability to deploy more then 8 probes - a dedicated max skilled prober should be able to monitor more then 2 locations at once.

Oh hell no. Getting warpables would be broken fast. I think that non-recon oriented ships should be limited to less than 8 actually.

LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

3. Ability to move probe clusters around independent of one another. lets say I launch 2 clusters of probes, 4 each, and monitor 2 distinct locations on the solar map - a gate and station for example - this is for PvP obviously. Then if I need to move 1 set of probes from station to another gate, I would need to drag individual probes down to new position via shift-key. it should be quick. a pre-set deploys 4 combat probes, they are grouped into cluster A. another click deploys another set, cluster B. Can move and re-size clusters independently of one another.

Oh hell yes. Select some probes in the window then hit a formation button and it only affects those selected probes plus an easy way to move probe subsets around? Do want.

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#118 - 2014-07-03 01:41:24 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Serendipity Lost wrote:


And that's fine - they have amassed an empire, so it's natural to want to wield it. All I want to do is come out of my wh and gank the crap out of them before they can run to safety.

Sure. Sounds great. Want that, think of a compelling reason for me to install the thing in the first place. I don't actually care what (and am in fact just fine with them staying worthless, less work doing upgrades in renter space for me) but since it's so important to you to not have to tackle on your own I figured I'd give you an example to work with.

Rek Seven wrote:


In your opinion, do you think more renter would use the upgrade if it was changed in such a way?

Edit: corbexx, sorry for going off topic...


Nope. If people in null wanted to be in wspace, they'd go to wspace.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2014-07-03 03:13:01 UTC
How about just fixing small POS then? they're a little thing, relatively speaking.


More seriously though if we're looking at small changes how about making it possible to fly Capital ships OUT of those lower class wormholes, even if it was only through connecting Low sec and Null sec wormholes.

Some PvP corps might find it worth attacking those systems to steal floating capital ships. and the indy corps in those lower classes might start producing more capitals to sell.

could be dumb, could need some tweaking, but it might remove the feeling of safety people have by building a capital in those holes. and attacking them could yield some interesting results instead of just a self destructed capital ship.

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#120 - 2014-07-03 04:36:45 UTC
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
How about just fixing small POS then? they're a little thing, relatively speaking.


More seriously though if we're looking at small changes how about making it possible to fly Capital ships OUT of those lower class wormholes, even if it was only through connecting Low sec and Null sec wormholes.

Some PvP corps might find it worth attacking those systems to steal floating capital ships. and the indy corps in those lower classes might start producing more capitals to sell.

could be dumb, could need some tweaking, but it might remove the feeling of safety people have by building a capital in those holes. and attacking them could yield some interesting results instead of just a self destructed capital ship.


Hell no, the moment you let capital ships move out of low class WHs is the day the only ship you'd ever see is Capitals in low class wormholes.

I had a fight the other day in a C2 where I engaged a ratting Raven, about half way through the fight I see a Sabre and Chimera on Dscan. I naturally bugged out quick. I cloaked up and warped to their POS, all three pilots online and sat at it (possibly the same guy who knows). More to the point, had I stuck around I was probably going to see fighters assigned to that Sabre.

There are already too many lowclass wormholes with caps in them, the moment you allow them to start moving in and out freely is the day WH space becomes dead.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."