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Wolf or Jaguar - Brawling
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Ni Ka
#1 - 2014-07-01 05:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ni Ka
I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. Both have their merits, so I'm looking toward you more experienced pilots to help clue me in. If I was going to solo, in an FW environment, which would be the better brawler for me and why? What gives the other ship the edge?

My current Wolf fit is below, taken from BC.

[Wolf]
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Corpii A-Type Kinetic Plating
Corpii A-Type Explosive Plating
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer

1MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator II
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#2 - 2014-07-01 06:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
That is a strong Wolf fit. In a FW environment it will struggle with only two mids but there is nothing to be done for it. In the past I've gone 200mm plate, DC, TE, Gyro, explosive faction plate. That let's you use a neut or rocket launcher in the extra high rather then a nos to run the repper. The tracking enhancer does really nice things for your damage projection as well. It's a matter of personal taste though.

I really don't like the Jaguar. It has a small capacitor, a gimped fitting grid for artillery, and horrible damage projection. It's tank, formerly it's claim to fame, is now overshadowed by many other AF.
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-07-01 07:54:26 UTC
As a rule of thumb, 2 mid brawlers are a no go for me in FW space.

You can expect 99% of the brawlers out there to be ab-scram-web, thus making them unkillable for you unless they're braindead.

Kiters you have a chance only if they slide in a plex with you already sitting there, and they usually don't slide inside an occupied plex, and even then if they get a bit lucky with the warp in point they might be able to pull range before you lock on.

I might be wrong of course, but i can't see the reasoning behind such a fit for FW solo work
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#4 - 2014-07-01 08:10:06 UTC
Going to disagree with Zarnak entirely. Think of it this way. A firetail is a rifter, except faster with an extra mid. Jag is the counterpart to this. Its a rifter with an extra mid and a bit more tank and damage.

Yes it "sucks" in current meta due power creep, but its still a Rifter+, so its still good if flown correctly. You can run implants and fit it with artillery, or use autos. It has tons of fittings, and a huge surprise factor. While I agree it is a bit on the weak side, for solo work it is much better than a wolf outside of artiwolf fittings, and can still be fit in a similar manner. Dont underestimate it.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#5 - 2014-07-01 11:24:48 UTC
Small Arty's are amazing. I'd rate them over autocannons any day. The applied damage is amazing and more reliable than AC's.
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#6 - 2014-07-01 15:10:28 UTC
[Wolf, PvP Arty]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Co-Processor II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
[Empty High slot]
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension II

Pretty much the only Wolf fit you should fly in FW, as mentioned there are too many ab/scram/web brawlers that counter the standard brawling Wolf fit. It's not that fast for a kiter, but the alpha and dps make up for it, you also counter the ab/scram/web brawlers really well and you can hold your own against kiters. I have personally never flown this cause I suck at kiting but I have many friends who do and they do really well with it.

If you're flying in null sec a Wolf with MWD + Scram can be a pretty solid choice though.
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-07-01 15:31:21 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
[Wolf, PvP Arty]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Co-Processor II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
[Empty High slot]
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension II

Pretty much the only Wolf fit you should fly in FW, as mentioned there are too many ab/scram/web brawlers that counter the standard brawling Wolf fit. It's not that fast for a kiter, but the alpha and dps make up for it, you also counter the ab/scram/web brawlers really well and you can hold your own against kiters. I have personally never flown this cause I suck at kiting but I have many friends who do and they do really well with it.

If you're flying in null sec a Wolf with MWD + Scram can be a pretty solid choice though.



On this note, is there any Wolf Guru around that could enlighten me regarding 250mm vs 280 mm arty wolves? I've seen both flown effectively, but in my mind i can't see the reason for the smaller pieces vs the 280s
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#8 - 2014-07-01 19:26:30 UTC
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
[Wolf, PvP Arty]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Co-Processor II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
[Empty High slot]
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension II

Pretty much the only Wolf fit you should fly in FW, as mentioned there are too many ab/scram/web brawlers that counter the standard brawling Wolf fit. It's not that fast for a kiter, but the alpha and dps make up for it, you also counter the ab/scram/web brawlers really well and you can hold your own against kiters. I have personally never flown this cause I suck at kiting but I have many friends who do and they do really well with it.

If you're flying in null sec a Wolf with MWD + Scram can be a pretty solid choice though.



On this note, is there any Wolf Guru around that could enlighten me regarding 250mm vs 280 mm arty wolves? I've seen both flown effectively, but in my mind i can't see the reason for the smaller pieces vs the 280s


The alpha, dps and most importantly range are very important for kiting, I'd personally go with 280s if I flew this fit and the rule usually applies to all kiting ships.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#9 - 2014-07-01 20:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitch Kaneland
Amusing, i posted that wolf fit on BC. Glad to see people using it.

To answer your question. There are many variables in place depending on fit and foe obviously. However, for range control and scram kiting, jag is king. People disagree with me, but ive had great success with ab/scram kite arty. Optimal bonus wins if your scram kiting. 280 optimal is 11km,. Jag is faster than wolf and with help from a nano+web offers very good range control while taking little damage yourself. Meanwhile, the alpha of arty will headshot active tanks. Arty jag vs ac jag, id pic arty everytime.

Now for wolf, its a dps monster for minmatar anyway. If you catch a frig that doesnt have web, it will die most likely. due to the 2 mids, it sucks for range control and gets kited often, unless arty fit. But due to its speed and lack of tank, i dont much like arty wolfs. wolf is strong against other brawlers and bigger ships. Jag is good against kiters.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70642-Jaguar-FW-Scram-kite-alpha-jag.html

Thats how i fit my jag for FW. Ive killed drams, crows, breachers, ac jags, td hookbill and more with either that fit or MSE fit.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#10 - 2014-07-02 09:21:56 UTC
Interesting strategy. I may try this sometime, but fwiw that kite wolf is going to run into a lot of problems in the current meta. The biggest issue is that you need to pulse the mwd or cap out in 60 seconds. In the current meta of active tank and td, I run into issues trying to fly a wolf and always seem to screw it up. Youll find that with so much mitigation you may cap out before you break them, and be forced to run or cycle your point, which is risky due to the quick align time of frigs.

I honestly think for all solo work Jag is the superior ship. Wolves are fleet ships with their high dps and good durability. Jags are simply too flexible and reliable. Yeah they have issues but this thread got me back in a jag earlier tonight and I got great results.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#11 - 2014-07-02 10:45:23 UTC
People laugh at AB/Scram frigates. They are on par with Dual-Rep ones.

Unless you know your enemy, you can't fit to win every fight. Flying something that is a good mid-ground without a gaping weakness that can be exploited and choosing a ship with something that's already strong (e.g the wolf has good range and EHP) is a good starting point. Pilot skill from that point can win fights.

Kunetai posted a video a while back of a fight against a Taranis (Pre-web-nerf) while in his Autocannon-Claw. On paper, the ranis wins. In practice it lost due to piloting strategy/skill. Similarly a PL dude posted a video of him flying his T2 fit 'Ranis against faction fit Crow's (the 18KM/s variety). He managed to catch and kill them. Again, on paper, he loses but pilot skill wins in space.

as an addendum about 250's: You'd use 250's for better tracking. Getting tackled by a Comet for example means they are close to your wolf and you dont have a web, so 280's wont apply damage as effectively. But against a kiting condor you'd want 280's for the range.

It's a tradeoff.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#12 - 2014-07-02 10:48:29 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Interesting strategy. I may try this sometime, but fwiw that kite wolf is going to run into a lot of problems in the current meta. The biggest issue is that you need to pulse the mwd or cap out in 60 seconds. In the current meta of active tank and td, I run into issues trying to fly a wolf and always seem to screw it up. Youll find that with so much mitigation you may cap out before you break them, and be forced to run or cycle your point, which is risky due to the quick align time of frigs.

I honestly think for all solo work Jag is the superior ship. Wolves are fleet ships with their high dps and good durability. Jags are simply too flexible and reliable. Yeah they have issues but this thread got me back in a jag earlier tonight and I got great results.


I used the jag for years. The Wolf doesn't care that you have 4 mids or an optimal range bonus. It's damage overwhelms things and that shock factor is something that the Jag doesnt have. It's like a taranis - Sure it's slow and susceptible to being kited... but you get in range for 10-20 seconds over the course of a 60 second fight and you'll still win the fight.
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#13 - 2014-07-02 11:02:57 UTC
Absolutely true. My complaints at the wolf are mostly directed at the skirmisher variety, but even still its lack of control is problematic in the TD meta.

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Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#14 - 2014-07-02 15:51:16 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Absolutely true. My complaints at the wolf are mostly directed at the skirmisher variety, but even still its lack of control is problematic in the TD meta.


It doesn't care about the TD/Scram meta. Do the math and add in some logic (this isn't an insult - it's a genuine chellenge to people to think logically about a whole fight, not just think about small parts of a fight and ignore the start-to-end journey from target spotted to target dead):

Hard tackle (defined by being scrammed/webbed) range defines how far you have to be able to hit to (e.g. you get tackled and someone sits perfectly at max range of scram/web). Unless this is a massively bonused ship, it will be ~10KM (don't talk about links, they are an entirely different argument).

Tracking disruptor will decrease effective range of guns by less than 50% - so treat every setup as having half the opti/falloff it has on paper when under the effects of a TD. That means any gun that has Opti+Falloff of 20km will still be effective within hard-tackle range. This means AB/Web/Scram/TD can be effectively countered by having 20km+ effective range.

It's been shown on reddit posts etc. that you can slingshot almost ship as long as you have an MWD - so long-point+TD condor's etc. wont be as effective at this strategy. This means you can bug out of a fight when someone uses a cheesy strategy like this.

Also, psychology takes an impact. If you are fighting another consenting person, they wont leave the fight until they believe they are losing. So technically you don't need full tackle on a wolf. MWD+Scram will be Fine. Scram will hard tackle anything you need to hold in place while you finish it off - a 20KM point is most useful when long-range pointing a target who wants to run, for actual combat, a scram does the job better due to the MWD deactivation.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#15 - 2014-07-02 16:21:28 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
It doesn't care about the TD/Scram meta. Do the math and add in some logic (this isn't an insult - it's a genuine chellenge to people to think logically about a whole fight, not just think about small parts of a fight and ignore the start-to-end journey from target spotted to target dead):

Hard tackle (defined by being scrammed/webbed) range defines how far you have to be able to hit to (e.g. you get tackled and someone sits perfectly at max range of scram/web). Unless this is a massively bonused ship, it will be ~10KM (don't talk about links, they are an entirely different argument).

...

As an occasional gank Thorax pilot, this is very much how I think, but in reverse. Assuming I have got the drop on my target, I ask myself (very quickly) what I think my odds are of getting hard tackle on my target and into range before they can react, burn away, and potentially kite me. If I don't think I can, I don't engage (if possible).

Any good combat fit needs to balance mobility, mobility control, and engagement range/application (engagement envelope). Slow ships that can't control mobility had better darned well have great DPS and engagement envelope. Being able to deal with scram kiters is one of the best benefits of using T2 medium blasters /w Null. If you're only using Meta guns, you are very vulnerable because your envelope is so small.

Back on topic, for a Wolf fit, I'd go MWD/Scram/Arties. You can't control range as well without a web, so you need the bigger engagement envelope that arties give you.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#16 - 2014-07-02 17:12:01 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
As an occasional gank Thorax pilot, this is very much how I think, but in reverse. Assuming I have got the drop on my target, I ask myself (very quickly) what I think my odds are of getting hard tackle on my target and into range before they can react, burn away, and potentially kite me. If I don't think I can, I don't engage (if possible).

Any good combat fit needs to balance mobility, mobility control, and engagement range/application (engagement envelope). Slow ships that can't control mobility had better darned well have great DPS and engagement envelope. Being able to deal with scram kiters is one of the best benefits of using T2 medium blasters /w Null. If you're only using Meta guns, you are very vulnerable because your envelope is so small.

Back on topic, for a Wolf fit, I'd go MWD/Scram/Arties. You can't control range as well without a web, so you need the bigger engagement envelope that arties give you.


In larger ships the decision to stay and fight is harder, simply because you can't 'luck out' and land a scram/web and shotgun down your target before momentum drags them out of tackle range - the idea of damage and application is a huge factor in cruiser+ combat. I personally like Rails these days, Thorax/Deimos perform well with them.

Also the null argument is, IMO, not even an argument. Void frigates don't exist. You lose so much damage one approach that void is, well, 'null and void'. Null's damage on approach and during over-shoots makes it so much better even without a TD on you.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#17 - 2014-07-02 17:32:14 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
In larger ships the decision to stay and fight is harder, simply because you can't 'luck out' and land a scram/web and shotgun down your target before momentum drags them out of tackle range - the idea of damage and application is a huge factor in cruiser+ combat. I personally like Rails these days, Thorax/Deimos perform well with them.

Agreed, I've always been more of a fan of longer range fights. You have more options, both for offense and to GTFO. But sometimes a 1km blaster slugfest is just fun. Twisted

Maeltstome wrote:
In larger ships the decision to stay and fight is harder, simply because you can't 'luck out' and land a scram/web and shotgun down your target before momentum drags them out of tackle range - the idea of damage and application is a huge factor in cruiser+ combat. I personally like Rails these days, Thorax/Deimos perform well with them.

Also the null argument is, IMO, not even an argument. Void frigates don't exist. You lose so much damage one approach that void is, well, 'null and void'. Null's damage on approach and during over-shoots makes it so much better even without a TD on you.

A tracking penalty on a short-range turret is pretty much the very last thing you want. The only time I've ever used Void is in orchestrated frigate ambushes of BS+ sized-targets. I could maybe see using it to take down capital ships at close range as well, but I've never tried it. In pretty much any other situation, I avoid it like the plague.

Javelin, on the other hand, is something I've been considering playing around with on a range-bonused rail fit. I know the damage isn't much better than CNAM, and the range penalty is stiff, but it's cheaper and the +25% to tracking could be interesting for kiting. (I was a sad panda to come back after time away to find that the Moa had lost it's range bonus. Sad)

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
evomad2
The Straw Men
#18 - 2014-07-02 17:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: evomad2
Jag is handy for lowsec FW space not-quite-brawling-but- just-out-of-scram-range-kiting and murders stuff pretty well.

[Jaguar] - kitey brawly lowsec type thing.

[High Slots]
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
Whatever (offline)
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S

[Med Slots]
1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

[Low Slots]
200mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Gyrostabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I

[Rigs]
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I

Just under 8k ehp. Only 160dps with heat, but it's all about the 1000ish damage alpha.
I find this a good 'lowsec swiss army knife', it's effective against both a lot of brawlers and a lot of kiters in the same weightclass.
Keep the dual webs overheated as long as you can, keep at 10 - 12 km range to mitigate your incoming damage, murder stuff.
If they are MWD fit and manage to burn away you're atill applying good damage right out to to point range, and you can still hit them while they kite. Keep long range ammo in case you get TDd.
Some ships it just can't take, same as a lot of fits, but this works especially well against active tank stuffs (incursus etc) and paper tank kiters as you can often alpha straight through their reps.

Wolf is an amazing lowsec brawler... in a two man frig fleet.
In 0.0 where most peops are MWD fit it fares better solo than in lowsec where nearly everyone brawling is AB/Scram/Web
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#19 - 2014-07-02 19:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Garresh
Maeltstome wrote:
Garresh wrote:
Absolutely true. My complaints at the wolf are mostly directed at the skirmisher variety, but even still its lack of control is problematic in the TD meta.


It doesn't care about the TD/Scram meta. Do the math and add in some logic (this isn't an insult - it's a genuine chellenge to people to think logically about a whole fight, not just think about small parts of a fight and ignore the start-to-end journey from target spotted to target dead):

Hard tackle (defined by being scrammed/webbed) range defines how far you have to be able to hit to (e.g. you get tackled and someone sits perfectly at max range of scram/web). Unless this is a massively bonused ship, it will be ~10KM (don't talk about links, they are an entirely different argument).

Tracking disruptor will decrease effective range of guns by less than 50% - so treat every setup as having half the opti/falloff it has on paper when under the effects of a TD. That means any gun that has Opti+Falloff of 20km will still be effective within hard-tackle range. This means AB/Web/Scram/TD can be effectively countered by having 20km+ effective range.

It's been shown on reddit posts etc. that you can slingshot almost ship as long as you have an MWD - so long-point+TD condor's etc. wont be as effective at this strategy. This means you can bug out of a fight when someone uses a cheesy strategy like this.

Also, psychology takes an impact. If you are fighting another consenting person, they wont leave the fight until they believe they are losing. So technically you don't need full tackle on a wolf. MWD+Scram will be Fine. Scram will hard tackle anything you need to hold in place while you finish it off - a 20KM point is most useful when long-range pointing a target who wants to run, for actual combat, a scram does the job better due to the MWD deactivation.



Again, I am talking about artillery wolf. TDs can mess with them pretty badly by crippling tracking or optimal which for a long fit has a smaller safety vs a TD. And if you're brawling against a wolf you'll switch to tracking speed scripts instead. Now that said you can still kill TD fits with autos or artillery. I have a good number of kills on my KB against td fits where I was using autos or artillery. By loading long ammo in an arti fit and flying to minimize transversal the problem is somewhat mitigates, but your dps drops to around 60% of what it normally is. The issue here isn't that they can't do damage through it, because they can. The issue is for long range fits your damage takes a big hit and you find yourself staying overly long until your capacitor can't hold up anymore due to the wolf's anemic recharge rate. When that happens you can't hold point or control range, so you go down or the fight ends before a kill is made.

Again, nothing you said is incorrect but you missed the point of my statement. I'm not arguing against brawler wolves. I'm arguing against arti wolves and to some degree long range ac wolves due to reload time and the slim margins they operate at.

I actually have done the math. The dps cut any non-brawler wolf takes combined with their reliance on cap to maintain range means it is almost impossible to get a kill before the cap runs out vs TD fits, and even most active tank fits in the current meta. Because wolves are bonuses for falloff and not optimal, loading long range ammo doesn't help as much as it would in a skirmish jag. Brawler wolves honey badger it up though and don't give a ****. Lol.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#20 - 2014-07-02 20:59:21 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
Garresh wrote:
Absolutely true. My complaints at the wolf are mostly directed at the skirmisher variety, but even still its lack of control is problematic in the TD meta.


It doesn't care about the TD/Scram meta. Do the math and add in some logic (this isn't an insult - it's a genuine chellenge to people to think logically about a whole fight, not just think about small parts of a fight and ignore the start-to-end journey from target spotted to target dead):

Hard tackle (defined by being scrammed/webbed) range defines how far you have to be able to hit to (e.g. you get tackled and someone sits perfectly at max range of scram/web). Unless this is a massively bonused ship, it will be ~10KM (don't talk about links, they are an entirely different argument).

Tracking disruptor will decrease effective range of guns by less than 50% - so treat every setup as having half the opti/falloff it has on paper when under the effects of a TD. That means any gun that has Opti+Falloff of 20km will still be effective within hard-tackle range. This means AB/Web/Scram/TD can be effectively countered by having 20km+ effective range.

It's been shown on reddit posts etc. that you can slingshot almost ship as long as you have an MWD - so long-point+TD condor's etc. wont be as effective at this strategy. This means you can bug out of a fight when someone uses a cheesy strategy like this.

Also, psychology takes an impact. If you are fighting another consenting person, they wont leave the fight until they believe they are losing. So technically you don't need full tackle on a wolf. MWD+Scram will be Fine. Scram will hard tackle anything you need to hold in place while you finish it off - a 20KM point is most useful when long-range pointing a target who wants to run, for actual combat, a scram does the job better due to the MWD deactivation.



Again, I am talking about artillery wolf. TDs can mess with them pretty badly by crippling tracking or optimal which for a long fit has a smaller safety vs a TD. And if you're brawling against a wolf you'll switch to tracking speed scripts instead. Now that said you can still kill TD fits with autos or artillery. I have a good number of kills on my KB against td fits where I was using autos or artillery. By loading long ammo in an arti fit and flying to minimize transversal the problem is somewhat mitigates, but your dps drops to around 60% of what it normally is. The issue here isn't that they can't do damage through it, because they can. The issue is for long range fits your damage takes a big hit and you find yourself staying overly long until your capacitor can't hold up anymore due to the wolf's anemic recharge rate. When that happens you can't hold point or control range, so you go down or the fight ends before a kill is made.

Again, nothing you said is incorrect but you missed the point of my statement. I'm not arguing against brawler wolves. I'm arguing against arti wolves and to some degree long range ac wolves due to reload time and the slim margins they operate at.

I actually have done the math. The dps cut any non-brawler wolf takes combined with their reliance on cap to maintain range means it is almost impossible to get a kill before the cap runs out vs TD fits, and even most active tank fits in the current meta. Because wolves are bonuses for falloff and not optimal, loading long range ammo doesn't help as much as it would in a skirmish jag. Brawler wolves honey badger it up though and don't give a ****. Lol.


My wolf fit is cap stable with everything running. Guns dont use cap. I'll post my fit here (despite my dislike of having to EFT warrior stuff for the sake of proving a point):

Quote:
[Wolf, 250's]

Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I

250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
[Empty High slot]

Small Projectile Burst Aerator II
Small Trimark Armor Pump I


That's a low budget fit. Pimp as you see fit. I'd also like to point out that paper DPS on AC/Blaster fits means nothing. Damage application, as previously discussed, kills it. I have fights recorded where I'm killing stuff with arties while fully tackled, and the volley damage when they approach and when the try to run are what wins me the fight. Kiting missile boats also hate it when you can reach out to point range and club them.
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