These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

[Warfare Links] 250km AOE Boosts
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#1 - 2014-07-01 22:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Koniforous
Here is the change I am proposing to gang links (warfare and mining):

Warfare Link

The Warfare Link projects an invisible fleet boosting sphere centered upon the ship for its entire duration. The field boosts all fleet members within its area of effect.

Fleet Boosting Range
250km
(the default, single-object, grid sphere size)

EDIT: Activation/duration timers on warfare links should be extended into the minute or more ranges, and application of this boost should be applied as an invisible 'tag' on all fleeted ships within the AOE sphere, upon module activation. This tag should have a decay timer that corresponds with the modules duration. This will help to reduce server load.


I'm sure someone has proposed this before. I checked the commonly proposed ideas, and didn't see it, though...

It seems like a lot of people consider off-grid boosts a really big issue. After some thought on the matter, I agree that off-grid boosts are problematic. I can appreciate that there may be serious coding issues with the system-wide boosts offered through skills, but making the gang links on-grid-only boosting modules seems like it should be easy.

By using already existing mechanics & modules (warp disruption field generators) why can't Warfare Links be modified to address the off-grid boosts gameplay problem? It seems like the overall health and fun of the game would be largely improved by making warfare links AOE projection modules.

Has this been proposed already? Am I wrong to assume it should be easily implemented? Or is the real problem that the community likes to be lazy with their Rorqs and Vultures safely off-grid?

TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending

TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#2 - 2014-07-01 23:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
When you try and warp, the server runs a check to see if you are scrambled/bubbled. This is a check that occurs only when you attempt to warp, once per warp attempt.

Links on the other hand would require checks every tick, for each link, for every ship in the fleet, in every system on every grid a fleet member is located on.

From the paraphrased words of some dev I don't recall : "Continuous distance based checks are a ******* nightmare."
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#3 - 2014-07-01 23:15:48 UTC
It would burn the servers down when every tick every ship on grid needs to check every warfare link and every leadership skill within 250km.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#4 - 2014-07-01 23:19:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Koniforous
Well, that clears that up! Thanks guys.

EDIT: Would it reduce server load if the modules emitted some sort of decaying "tag" to all ships within its AOE everytime the module had an activation tick? (10s tick intervals)

Each ship within the sphere would then gain a decaying 10second, invisible tag that boosted the ships stats based on the fleet boosting stats of the modules?

TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending

TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
Nick Starkey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-07-01 23:27:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nick Starkey
It's not like they need to be checked every single tick. Applying the effect once every 1 or 2 minutes would be enough to prevent abuse. I don't see why such a simple concept similar to buffs in any other mmo can't be applied here.

I've made a signature. I hope you're enjoying it. www.evetrademaster.com - web based asset manager & profit tracker
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#6 - 2014-07-01 23:28:49 UTC
Nick Starkey wrote:
It's not like they need to be checked every single tick. Applying the effect once every 1 or 2 minutes would be enough to prevent abuse.

This. The modules could have their activation times reworked to "application" timers with long durations to reduce server load.

TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending

TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#7 - 2014-07-01 23:36:57 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
Nick Starkey wrote:
It's not like they need to be checked every single tick. Applying the effect once every 1 or 2 minutes would be enough to prevent abuse.

This. The modules could have their activation times reworked to "application" timers with long durations to reduce server load.


A completely halfassed solution, given the extremely mobile nature of fleet combat.

What happens if you apply buffs to everyone in 250k, then die? or log off, or jump systems?
If the buffs stop in any of the above situations, you have a situation where the server still has to make constant checks to see the state of the boosting ship. If they don't stop then you have situations where ships are getting ghost buffs from ships that might not even be in system or alive anymore.

And piling all the checks on at once means you have sudden load spikes on a regular basis. This is not good game design.

Any redesign of boosts needs to not throw load wrenches into the server whenever their links cycle.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2014-07-02 00:02:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Nick Starkey wrote:
It's not like they need to be checked every single tick. Applying the effect once every 1 or 2 minutes would be enough to prevent abuse. I don't see why such a simple concept similar to buffs in any other mmo can't be applied here.

This is an interesting idea.

What if...

- the boosts lasted only as long as the warfare links' cycle (like a timer).

- the boost would only "refresh" if you were within range of the warfare link ship (to be determined)... otherwise it would go away.

This way the system would only have to check distance once every 30 seconds or so... and the link ship could be relatively free to maneuver around as needed in that time frame. It would be akin to operating a logistics ship.

How did you Veterans start?
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#9 - 2014-07-02 00:48:35 UTC
Until we have a ganglink ship with full bonuses that can mwd at 7 kmps and isn't paper tanked we can begin to discuss this.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2014-07-02 00:57:59 UTC
A much simpler application would simply be 'shares same grid, gets boosts'.
However even that requires significantly more checks than the current system I'm guessing.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#11 - 2014-07-02 03:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Saisin
Another simple idea rather than bringing links on grid would be to bring grid to links Big smile
Start link, open beacon to your grid.
Leave grid, stop links effect.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#12 - 2014-07-02 04:05:46 UTC
The short message is that your idea would allow people to create node breaking grids.

Some of this information may be dated but this manual contains a general idea of what a grid actually is
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/0912/gridfumanual2.pdf
Get yourself a beverage (at least) you prefer at a temperature you find optimal and browse through the art of grid-fu.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#13 - 2014-07-02 05:42:21 UTC
Super spikinator wrote:
The short message is that your idea would allow people to create node breaking grids.

Some of this information may be dated but this manual contains a general idea of what a grid actually is
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/0912/gridfumanual2.pdf
Get yourself a beverage (at least) you prefer at a temperature you find optimal and browse through the art of grid-fu.

I had actually read some of that before posting. How would the idea create node breaking grids?

TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending

TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-07-02 07:02:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Colt Blackhawk
Arya Regnar wrote:
Until we have a ganglink ship with full bonuses that can mwd at 7 kmps and isn't paper tanked we can begin to discuss this.


Translation: I am such a bad pilot, I can´t even kill a noobship without links.

On topic:
CCP screwed the game and solo completely with links. And they won´t remove them because they are happy about every damn subscription nowadays, even if it wrecks the game (CCP logic^^)
I have seen whole corps of 80+ disband in low because you can´t do **** without links 24/7 nowadays.
Make them simply work again in pos so that smaller corps (60 or so) can have their dudes providing links 24/7 in linked systems so that people will avoid every other system where they don´t have links.
But hey CCP can´t get new players into the game so they want to force existing players to get link alts (what again makes it even more difficult for new players in the game.... CCP logic^^)
Actually if you park a cloaky in low on gate you will get a good laugh when you see all these "solo pros" jumping in with a 10mil tech1 frig and 2 links. CCP screwed it greatly. As always^^

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-07-02 08:14:24 UTC
I have an idea ... keep the link mechanic as it is including off-grid boosts ... however, every time a ship activates links it lights up to everyone in system as a warpable beacon like a cyno. Big smile

I'm my own NPC alt.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#16 - 2014-07-02 09:10:09 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
I have an idea ... keep the link mechanic as it is including off-grid boosts ... however, every time a ship activates links it lights up to everyone in system as a warpable beacon like a cyno. Big smile

Something along those lines is a nice compromise if on-grid boosts aren't practical.

TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending

TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
Abel Kugisa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-07-02 09:14:37 UTC
Checking a few thousand distances only once a second should not be a problem for the server.
Nick Starkey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-07-02 10:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Nick Starkey
Anhenka wrote:

A completely halfassed solution, given the extremely mobile nature of fleet combat.

What happens if you apply buffs to everyone in 250k, then die? or log off, or jump systems?



So, the fleet keeps its links for a whooping 1 or 2 minutes. Given the slow nature of fleet combat, I have a hard time seeing how this could be exploited. Similar to bastion mode, activating warfare links should give you an agression timer. No jumping, no docking or logging off. And if you think suiciding a command ship every minute for this is a good idea, then go ahead.


Anhenka wrote:

If the buffs stop in any of the above situations, you have a situation where the server still has to make constant checks to see the state of the boosting ship. If they don't stop then you have situations where ships are getting ghost buffs from ships that might not even be in system or alive anymore.

And piling all the checks on at once means you have sudden load spikes on a regular basis. This is not good game design.

Any redesign of boosts needs to not throw load wrenches into the server whenever their links cycle.


It doesn't, for the reasons explained above. Turn 'link effects' into a simple countdown similar to limited engagements or agression timers. There is no constant ticking anywhere, just a server flag that says ship X, Y and Z are not affected by said status after 11.40 server time. If the command ship is on grid at that time and with the effects active, said timer is refreshed for another 2 minutes regardless of what happens. There is an exponentialy higher number of non-logoff timers, limited engagements, suspect timers and criminal timers being generated in any average fleet combat scenario.

In fact I would not mind if they made warfare links significantly stronger to reward the added risk with this. It turns a completly afk type gameplay into something dynamic that requires a proper fit ship and an active pilot in it.

I see nothing wrong with this.

I've made a signature. I hope you're enjoying it. www.evetrademaster.com - web based asset manager & profit tracker
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#19 - 2014-07-02 14:11:41 UTC
Just make links targeted modules. Long range, optimal+falloff. Increase CS high slots and tune Command Processors to allow more links, allow links to be overheated.

Little added server load, easy to program, promotes an active and challenging player role for link ships. Death to afk booster alts.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#20 - 2014-07-02 14:31:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Aiyshimin wrote:
Just make links targeted modules. Long range, optimal+falloff. Increase CS high slots and tune Command Processors to allow more links, allow links to be overheated.
Little added server load, easy to program, promotes an active and challenging player role for link ships. Death to afk booster alts.


Aeh we got those links already, and they have nothing to do with fleet warefare Shocked Ssuper silly, at least I said something, post.

And I do not understand this thread in any way, since the whole on grid / off grid debate isn't even over yet, If the decision is to be on grid only, then you can start talking about ranges and whatever. The whole community is so devided and the developers undecided, that talking about bubble sizes or direct 1on1 links does not make any sense at all.

Join the on/off grid discussion if you want to have a go, this is pointless, especially some of the mentioned implementations some are really ridiculous for a thing that either is or isn't.

Not to mention, that most anti off-grid advocates are solo or small gang players who lack the understanding, that on grid favors the big corps, alliances and blobs. Just because they think a 1on1 with a boosted opponent isn't fair, that this would go away if he would be forced to bring his CS on grid... think again. Off grid favors the little guy.
12Next page