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Probably debated before but - Raven Navy Issue, Rattlesnake, or Golem

Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2014-06-28 04:26:42 UTC
If you want firepower get the rattle.

If you want tank get the golem.

If you want something cheap and not skillpoint intensive get the CNR.
stoicfaux
#42 - 2014-06-28 15:58:02 UTC
But which one is best for running level 4s?

Answers should contain blitzing and/or full-clear completion times.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-06-28 17:26:11 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Answers should contain blitzing and/or full-clear completion times.

Sounds like you have yourself a project. I might consider it but I'm on vacation for almost another week

I think the Golem is best compared to the CNR but it has nothing to do with tank. If you're uber tanking a cruise Golem you're doing it wrong. It only needs 2-3 slot tank not counting the Bastion module.

It's best due to the TP bonus and EWAR immunity. Using half the ammo is also a bonus.

I'm still partial to the CNR and still fly one for SOE missions because it gets less attention from gankers.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#44 - 2014-06-29 13:02:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Bubba Styles wrote:
Wow a huge amount of info. Thanks everyone for posting it's been a really good read. I think I'll go for the Rattlesnake (after some skill training).


Big mistake, there is currently no good reason to fly a Rattlesnake unless you want to passive shield tank level 5s. Sure, its on-paper DPS makes EFT warriors have a bukake party all over each other but the reality is that it has a low ability to apply its damage. As other players have noted, refitting and managing this ship DPS is a huge pain in the ass. Golem takes less training time, tanks better, far superior damage application, much easier to play and has better mission completion and looting times.

They really ****** the Rattlesnake with the loss of bonuses on all drones and the 400m3 drone bay, imo. This was a ship that does passive tanking best and doesn't have room to fit the omnis that are now required if one wants fast and small frigates to die in an acceptable time frame. Dealing with fast and small frigates was much more efficiently accomplished with bonuses to light drones and enough drone bay space to fit multiple flights of the proper drone type.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#45 - 2014-06-29 13:59:37 UTC
Geckos kill everything in the mission just fine. I've even gone back to Torps to kill the BSes that much faster on my RS.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-06-29 14:10:28 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
Bubba Styles wrote:
Wow a huge amount of info. Thanks everyone for posting it's been a really good read. I think I'll go for the Rattlesnake (after some skill training).


Big mistake, there is currently no good reason to fly a Rattlesnake unless you want to passive shield tank level 5s. Sure, its on-paper DPS makes EFT warriors have a bukake party all over each other but the reality is that it has a low ability to apply its damage. As other players have noted, refitting and managing this ship DPS is a huge pain in the ass. Golem takes less training time, tanks better, far superior damage application, much easier to play and has better mission completion and looting times.

They really ****** the Rattlesnake with the loss of bonuses on all drones and the 400m3 drone bay, imo. This was a ship that does passive tanking best and doesn't have room to fit the omnis that are now required if one wants fast and small frigates to die in an acceptable time frame. Dealing with fast and small frigates was much more efficiently accomplished with bonuses to light drones and enough drone bay space to fit multiple flights of the proper drone type.

Drones apply damage so easily and really, your main complaint is that you cant get omnis on a passive tank?

Active tank it, geez. Now your application problem is gone.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-06-29 16:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Val'Dore wrote:
Geckos kill everything in the mission just fine..


they actually don't. Sure, some slower, fatter frigates die fine. I've waited up to 20 seconds for a gecko to kill a single frigate web scrambling me with 2 omnidirectionals equipped. They aren't the best choice vs battleships either, only a passable solution for dealing with smaller ships that takes up 10 light drones worth of space.

Spider drones take forever for geckos to hit too. Id much rather have the bonused lights for any pvp encounters as well. Only EFTards seem to like it. People who actually have played seem to be painting a different picture.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#48 - 2014-06-29 16:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Val'Dore
Nerf Burger wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Geckos kill everything in the mission just fine..


they actually don't. Sure, some slower, fatter frigates die fine. I've waited up to 20 seconds for a gecko to kill a single frigate web scrambling me with 2 omnidirectionals equipped.

Spider drones take forever for geckos to hit too. Id much rather have the bonused lights for any pvp encounters as well. Only EFTards seem to think the ship is good.


Yeah, no. I only have one Enhancer fitted and my gecko kills frigates just fine... most of the time in one shot. Sometimes it takes slightly longer, but you can always put out light drones for frigates if it bothers you so much.

I had no trouble at all with Spider Drones either.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#49 - 2014-06-29 16:50:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Val'Dore wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Geckos kill everything in the mission just fine..


they actually don't. Sure, some slower, fatter frigates die fine. I've waited up to 20 seconds for a gecko to kill a single frigate web scrambling me with 2 omnidirectionals equipped.

Spider drones take forever for geckos to hit too. Id much rather have the bonused lights for any pvp encounters as well. Only EFTards seem to think the ship is good.


Yeah, no. I only have one Enhancer fitted and my gecko kills frigates just fine... most of the time in one shot. Sometimes it takes slightly longer, but you can always put out light drones for frigates if it bothers you so much.

I had no trouble at all with Spider Drones either.


Sorry you are flat out wrong or trolling. Bonused lights deal with fast frigates and spider drones infinitely better and without the need cut tank to fit omnidirectionals.

I thought this was common sense. Even the dev blog on drone changes state that heavy drones will have an even harder time hitting small, fast frigates than before Kronos.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#50 - 2014-06-29 17:40:29 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Geckos kill everything in the mission just fine..


they actually don't. Sure, some slower, fatter frigates die fine. I've waited up to 20 seconds for a gecko to kill a single frigate web scrambling me with 2 omnidirectionals equipped.

Spider drones take forever for geckos to hit too. Id much rather have the bonused lights for any pvp encounters as well. Only EFTards seem to think the ship is good.


Yeah, no. I only have one Enhancer fitted and my gecko kills frigates just fine... most of the time in one shot. Sometimes it takes slightly longer, but you can always put out light drones for frigates if it bothers you so much.

I had no trouble at all with Spider Drones either.


Sorry you are flat out wrong or trolling. Bonused lights deal with fast frigates and spider drones infinitely better and without the need cut tank to fit omnidirectionals.

I thought this was common sense. Even the dev blog on drone changes state that heavy drones will have an even harder time hitting small, fast frigates than before Kronos.


I didn't say light drones weren't better. I said the gecko was just fine at doing it without help. My tank isn't suffering from it either. As I said I only have one Omnidirectional Enhancer fit, which does absolutely nothing to harm my tank or dmg.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Throne of Games
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#51 - 2014-06-30 02:49:07 UTC
1 Fighter drone will 1 shot a frig with the current patch. I find it difficult that people resist to think heavies aren't capable as well.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-06-30 20:29:25 UTC
Throne of Games wrote:
1 Fighter drone will 1 shot a frig with the current patch. I find it difficult that people resist to think heavies aren't capable as well.
Finding it difficult to believe that heavies sometimes or even often miss doesn't change the fact that they do.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#53 - 2014-06-30 21:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
stoicfaux wrote:
But which one is best for running level 4s?

Answers should contain blitzing and/or full-clear completion times.


All are rather suboptimal for blitzing compared to a machariel due to traveltimes, especially since the mach can get even more warpspeed using rigslots - unlike those missileships.

Else, Golem got the longest (tractor beam to pick up mission objectives)

Ed: Whenever I think about blitzing, I mainly think of Gone Berserk, 1j out and The Blockade, Angel style <.<
evomad2
The Straw Men
#54 - 2014-06-30 21:55:52 UTC
Similar to other peops here my mission character has all three ships. They all have their applications.
I must admit I usually do /lazymode and fly a MJD RNI with extended lock range, max gank and minimal tank. I find it best to MJD away when landing in a room, blap everything, then MJD straight down to the next gate. I will generally use a Rattler for Guristas missions though, as with drones no f***ks are given about ECM.
On the whole I would say my completion times for any given mission (without ECM involved) are generally lower in the Rattler compared to the RNI, mainly because I'm either waiting for drones to travel (especially in rooms with groups far apart) or sat stationary with sentries and not approaching the next gate.
I have the Golem set up for torps and tank as it plays to the strength of the ship (uber tank) for those nice close/mid range high incoming dps missions like Damsel. It murders them in no time.

In short I don't think you can say 'fastest to do missions' unless you stipulate the region you mission in and the missions you do. In Amarr space for instance, where the majority of missions are BS heavySansha/Blood the laser boats (paladin, nightmare etc) are arguably the 'best' ships.
I think the RNI just edges it for me, especially as I don't like micro management as my missioning is usually done on a second account.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#55 - 2014-07-01 00:29:53 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Throne of Games wrote:
1 Fighter drone will 1 shot a frig with the current patch. I find it difficult that people resist to think heavies aren't capable as well.
Finding it difficult to believe that heavies sometimes or even often miss doesn't change the fact that they do.


Even with the misses, they still kill the frigs before you kill the BSes. But that isn't even the point. You can still hold plenty of light drones in the Rattler if you are OCD about it.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Gefen Orion
Icebox Industries
#56 - 2014-07-01 00:38:40 UTC
I have been flying a rattlesnake since 2009. I used to do sentries and missiles. Now its all about the Gecko. The gecko was specially made for the RS, imo, to compensate for losing the bonus to med and light drones.

If I land on grid, and there are frigs 30km or beyond from me, i use bouncers or warden to clear them while i rain scourge furies on BS and BC rats. As soon as the frigs are gone, I recall the bouncers, launch the geckko and start pulsing my MWD to the next gate. However, there are missions where the frigs are really in your face (5km to 15km away), I just launch the gecko, let him do his job and I kill BS and BC. Works out fine for me.

Personally, I dont really blitz or count my completion time. I dont like playing in a hurry state all the time. What I do is count my ISK. So far, I am happy with my RS and the way she brings me ISK consistently.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-07-01 00:41:31 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Throne of Games wrote:
1 Fighter drone will 1 shot a frig with the current patch. I find it difficult that people resist to think heavies aren't capable as well.
Finding it difficult to believe that heavies sometimes or even often miss doesn't change the fact that they do.


Even with the misses, they still kill the frigs before you kill the BSes. But that isn't even the point. You can still hold plenty of light drones in the Rattler if you are OCD about it.
They do, but the more time I spend on them the longer my super DPS RS isn't actually performing effectively and is losing to any raven-kind missile ship due to lower missile output, worse application compared to the RNI/Golem, and greater potential for loss of DPS due to volley miscounting.

That's kind of the thing making me not like the RS, any time your drones are on frigs your ship is kinda like a T1 raven that can't do EX/EM as well.
0rch1d
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#58 - 2014-07-01 00:54:35 UTC
evomad2 wrote:
Similar to other peops here my mission character has all three ships. They all have their applications.
I must admit I usually do /lazymode and fly a MJD RNI with extended lock range, max gank and minimal tank. I find it best to MJD away when landing in a room, blap everything, then MJD straight down to the next gate.



This strategy is like a drug. Bear

I even throw on an AB.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#59 - 2014-07-01 01:46:18 UTC
Single best version of L4 ship I know of:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70554-MWD-L4-Rattlesnake-1733-DPS-with-implants.html

If you don't have max or near max skills use the second option because you are not ready.




Slightly cheaper MJD version that is also bad ass:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70136-Rattlesnake-Kronos-Optimal-L4-Missioner.html



Both will out perform any other L4 mission ship currently in game currently.
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