These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Shield vs Armor
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tuvar Hiede
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-06-27 10:58:19 UTC
There was always a lot of people leaning toward shields over armor, I've just returned and seen armor got a little love but people seem to still favor Shield. Why is that? I know in the past it had a lot to do with the ability to align a fleet and warp since there wasn't added mass from buffer fits. Also passive regen was nice to have since you didn't need someone to rep you or dock with passive fits. I can still see this for roams, but what about Incursions where you have logistics in fleet?
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#2 - 2014-06-27 11:03:33 UTC
With shield you have all lows for damage increase/projection.

Invalid signature format
Tuvar Hiede
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-06-27 11:35:50 UTC
With the extra slots and diminishing returns it seems like minimal at best though.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#4 - 2014-06-27 11:39:16 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
With shield you have all lows for damage increase/projection.


Everything after 4 damage mods is not worth it. So if you fly something like a Dominix that you can armor tank and still have 4 Damage mods, it's better to have an armor tank.
And increased damage projection is better with active midslots module, like Tracking Computer, Targetpainters, Webs, Omnis.
Also other goodies like MDJ, MWD/AB and cap injector.

It more or less boils down to what ship you like to fly. It's not so straight forward like it was 2 years ago, but old habits die hard.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-06-27 12:41:08 UTC
For pve shield is usually better.

For pvp armor is usually better, but not always.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-06-27 13:00:20 UTC
Tuvar Hiede wrote:
There was always a lot of people leaning toward shields over armor, I've just returned and seen armor got a little love but people seem to still favor Shield. Why is that?

it depends on where you look. missioning in amarr space for example is best done with armor tanked ships because of more favorable resist profiles. also, since the tracking enhancer nerf, tracking comps are almost always the better choice (and missioners reacted by armor tanking their machariels for example). in contrast to that, armor tanking your capitals gives you the advantage of the slave implant set, which has no shield equivalent.

Quote:
I know in the past it had a lot to do with the ability to align a fleet and warp since there wasn't added mass from buffer fits. Also passive regen was nice to have since you didn't need someone to rep you or dock with passive fits. I can still see this for roams, but what about Incursions where you have logistics in fleet?

shield logis have an easier job because shield reps are applied at the beginning of the cycle, in contrast to armor reps. alternatively, you can reduce the buffer on your dps ships in favor of sensor boosters, webs, tracking comps etc.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-06-27 14:27:51 UTC
Scenario and ship dependant.

Facing lots of NOS you need to passive tank which means a shield tank.

Ships with split weapons like the new rattler have very few lows so need to shield tank.

Ships with lots of lows that snipe are better with armor tank.


etc etc
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#8 - 2014-06-27 14:38:16 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
With shield you have all lows for damage increase/projection.


Everything after 4 damage mods is not worth it.


Gee thanks, I almost undocked my mach with lows full of gyros Roll

Invalid signature format
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-06-27 14:56:53 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:

Ships with lots of lows that snipe are better with armor tank.

Is that pvp or pve?

In pve I use shield because only caldari can really hurt you when you are sniping from 140-200 km away.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2014-06-27 19:03:02 UTC
Important for incursions:
* Doing the most damage possible (low slots = damage enhancements).
* Quickly responding to repair broadcasts (shield repairs at the start of a cycle).
* Having efficient remote repairs (shield fits tend to have higher resists and lower HP than armor = similar EHP).
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-06-27 20:45:50 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:

Facing lots of NOS you need to passive tank which means a shield tank.

Huh?

I'm guessing you're referring to ancillary shield boosters. True they don't need cap but when your invulns shut off from lack of cap it won't be good.

Buffer armor tank will have no issues with cap. Unlike an invulnerability field the EANM isn't effected by lack of cap.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#12 - 2014-06-27 21:10:54 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:

Facing lots of NOS you need to passive tank which means a shield tank.

Huh?

I'm guessing you're referring to ancillary shield boosters. True they don't need cap but when your invulns shut off from lack of cap it won't be good.

Buffer armor tank will have no issues with cap. Unlike an invulnerability field the EANM isn't effected by lack of cap.


No, I think he's talking about a pure passive tank. Resistance amps, SPRs, the usual. Not that those are in vogue these days what with no room for damage or application. There is a place for them though; see Serpentis Logistical Outpost Ishtars for example.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#13 - 2014-06-28 01:03:03 UTC
It's easier to build working shield fits across all races ships compared to armor.
Not every ship can do it well but atleast one per class for all the T1's.

Armor is mainly used in null sec and worm holes for cap fights.
Tuvar Hiede
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-06-28 02:24:37 UTC
Good discussion, sounds like there still needs to be some Armor improvements due to how the fittings work. As far as low slots on armor go I see most fits have one 1600 and 1 maybe 2 hardeners or EANM, with 7 lows that leaves 4-5 to add Dmg mods and allows you to tinker with your mids. The armor repper is a good point but a solid logistic pilot would be able to handle it I believe, especially in a well fit Logistics ship with enough targeting to lock his entire group.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-06-28 06:45:22 UTC
Tuvar Hiede wrote:
Good discussion, sounds like there still needs to be some Armor improvements due to how the fittings work. As far as low slots on armor go I see most fits have one 1600 and 1 maybe 2 hardeners or EANM, with 7 lows that leaves 4-5 to add Dmg mods and allows you to tinker with your mids. The armor repper is a good point but a solid logistic pilot would be able to handle it I believe, especially in a well fit Logistics ship with enough targeting to lock his entire group.


For PvP possibly - for PvE you are never going to see the 1600, just DCU II, possibly an RAH, LARII and then EANM or mission hardeners.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#16 - 2014-06-30 11:08:16 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Tuvar Hiede wrote:
Good discussion, sounds like there still needs to be some Armor improvements due to how the fittings work. As far as low slots on armor go I see most fits have one 1600 and 1 maybe 2 hardeners or EANM, with 7 lows that leaves 4-5 to add Dmg mods and allows you to tinker with your mids. The armor repper is a good point but a solid logistic pilot would be able to handle it I believe, especially in a well fit Logistics ship with enough targeting to lock his entire group.


For PvP possibly - for PvE you are never going to see the 1600, just DCU II, possibly an RAH, LARII and then EANM or mission hardeners.

I see 1600s in PVE every day. Every time I look at unshiny+unslaved armor incursion fits from the fanatically conservative TDF.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp