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Complex Reactions Industry in decline for industry patch?
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Electrified Circuits
Predator Ewoks
#1 - 2014-06-27 17:57:42 UTC
I run a lot of towers doing complex and simple reactions the main reason i do this is to reduce logistics cost for bringing in materials in order to make tech 2 products , ships and modules and make a tidy profit on the reactions.

I've noticed something happen in the lead up to this patch there has been quite a steep decline in profitability from the complex reactions and somewhat of an increase in the otherwise unprofitable simples.

What are your thoughts on this? Due to the low cost of components now im only assuming ppl have either overproduced on metamaterals and components after the surge that was t2 hauler production barges etc or people are holding back on producing entirely in wait for the removal of negative T2 BPCs. Looking fwd to it picking up health again come the expansion.
SCLZ
New Eden Shipyards
Sigma Grindset
#2 - 2014-06-27 22:37:17 UTC
I'm a consumer of T2 components and although I haven't pulled back my production yet I do intend to be all cashed up by the time the expansion hits as I'm expecting I'll need to make a lot of changes to the way I currently operate. I'm guessing some others will have the same idea and might already be winding down their production.

But of course there are so many changes on the horizon it's bound to make some turbulence both before and after the patch so I don't know how much we can read into the prices at the moment :)
Ellon JTC
Quadralien
#3 - 2014-06-28 06:37:47 UTC
Electrified Circuits wrote:
I run a lot of towers doing complex and simple reactions the main reason i do this is to reduce logistics cost for bringing in materials in order to make tech 2 products , ships and modules and make a tidy profit on the reactions.

I've noticed something happen in the lead up to this patch there has been quite a steep decline in profitability from the complex reactions and somewhat of an increase in the otherwise unprofitable simples.

What are your thoughts on this? Due to the low cost of components now im only assuming ppl have either overproduced on metamaterals and components after the surge that was t2 hauler production barges etc or people are holding back on producing entirely in wait for the removal of negative T2 BPCs. Looking fwd to it picking up health again come the expansion.


It will take time but the simple components will come down to.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#4 - 2014-06-29 12:47:08 UTC
Do not worry to much about it. it is just a drop in demand. A lot of manufacturers have put T2 production on hold until the expansion. This is because when the expansion hits all the ME -3 BPC's will become ME +6, saving a lot of T2 mats.

You would be best to do the same. Stock up on mats and BPC's, but wait until the change to do the manufacturing.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 - 2014-07-01 19:18:02 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Do not worry to much about it. it is just a drop in demand. A lot of manufacturers have put T2 production on hold until the expansion. This is because when the expansion hits all the ME -3 BPC's will become ME +6, saving a lot of T2 mats.

You would be best to do the same. Stock up on mats and BPC's, but wait until the change to do the manufacturing.


Such bad information.

Negative MEs are being eliminated. This requires that all that wastage (max 70% at ME-6) be folded into the base requirements of the blueprint. So ME-6 will become ME0%, ME-4 will become ME2%, and so on. Just add 1% per ME level up to ME-1=ME5%.

T2 BP base material requirements are being multiplied by 1.5/0.9 = 1.67. T1 material requirements are being multiplied by 1/0.9. The reason for the division by 0.9 is because the base wastage is being eliminated and simply folded into the base materials. The BP ME will determine how much (or how little) the material requirements get reduced. Perfect will be ME10%.

The reason for the 1.5 multiplication for T2 is because negative ME is being done away with, and the invented BPC wastage that came with negative ME needs to be folded into the base material requirements along with the base wastage.

Extra Materials are also being folded into the base materials. The only exception is for things like ship hulls as materials for invented T2 BPCs. Those will stay at 1 required. (CCP felt that making your Kronos BPC require 2 Megathrons might be a bad idea.)

Certain POS modules and workforce teams will reduce your material costs and/or installation fees.

Throughput is being adjusted so that you will use the same amount of materials over time as before. But that would require an increase in build times, which would reduce supply of the end product, with no change in demand. So unless I've made some sort of major mistake, prices should go up significantly.

Good news is that you won't have to haul so much stuff to market.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#6 - 2014-07-01 19:35:17 UTC
Source for old waste being folded into new costs?
Since that massively affects T2 BPO's (Much as we all hate them) and the high ME bonus decryptors that heavily reduced requirements.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-07-01 20:07:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
CCP Greyscale's sticky in this forum.

TL;DR: Negative ME is being eliminated and base materials are being adjusted so that the component requirements are about the same after Crius as they are now.
Josclyn Verreuil
Dark 0rder.
#8 - 2014-07-02 03:33:29 UTC
Market behaving oddly due to misunderstandings and speculation, mostly. There's probably some dumping of complex reaction materials by the doom and gloom folks as well, based on 0.4 mining.

It's funny, because based on what looks to be increased costs post-patch, materials should actually be rising as folks squeeze in production beforehand.

v0v
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-07-02 13:34:46 UTC
Josclyn Verreuil wrote:
Market behaving oddly due to misunderstandings and speculation, mostly. There's probably some dumping of complex reaction materials by the doom and gloom folks as well, based on 0.4 mining.

It's funny, because based on what looks to be increased costs post-patch, materials should actually be rising as folks squeeze in production beforehand.

v0v


Which they aren't because people like me have packed up for now.
Electrified Circuits
Predator Ewoks
#10 - 2014-07-03 09:34:44 UTC
So I ran some products by on http://bp.kiwi.frubar.net/calc/ using the crius calc and it looks like some are going to be even more expensive to make than they are already. This was my first assumption since a lot of the cost in T2 is in the extra materials which are being rolled into the main cost.

Now would be a good time to stock up on all them cheap metamaterials as they are going to go up in value a lot