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Security forces side with the bad guys?

Author
Aayla Reyvar
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-12 05:13:46 UTC
So, I finally bought a brand new cruiser. Been working on it for several weeks. Nonstop harassment from other players, thieves taking everything I manage to mine, jetcan swapping and killing me when I attempt to loot my own ore, warp scrambling and trying to ransom me.. Easily the worst experience I've ever had in any game. But hey, it all paid off in the end right?

No. Not really. Took that new cruiser out and cleared out a pirate base for fun. Start salvaging all the ships, and someone else warps in and starts salvaging all my stuff. They of course turn aggressive, and I figure I'll use my shiny new cruiser to stop them. I've had enough, and won't be pushed around in my little weakling mining frigate anymore. Next thing I know a security ship warps into the system and one shots my cruiser.

I've no idea what happened, what went wrong. They stole from me, I shot, and I'm the bad guy? Where were those police guys when I was being bullied nonstop for the last few days? Nothing in this game makes any sense..
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#2 - 2011-09-12 05:33:05 UTC
Are you SURE that the player was aggroed to you? If they were NOT flashy yellow/orange/red with a skull under their name then they were NOT "shootable."

also...

Are you sure it was a "security cruiser" (e.g. CONCORD, Faction Police, etc) or was it another player? The difference between the two is that player ships warp in, NPC ships just "spawn."


Also, pro-tip: only the loot inside the wreck belongs to the person(s) who killed the NPC. The wreck(s) itself can be salvaged by anyone without incurring "aggro rights."
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#3 - 2011-09-12 05:42:34 UTC
Also make sure to leave highly populated areas as it's just asking for a can flip, I myself was messing with people in Hek today lol

That part alone should mean WAY less harassment

and also what Shah said

The Drake is a Lie

Mechanoid Kryten
N0VA 5
#4 - 2011-09-12 05:44:46 UTC
sounds like you're still mining in a noob area. only a few systems in eve are like that. that, and all of caldari space. there are places you can mine and only encounter a can flipper once a week or less.

Don't take back "your" ore if you've been can-flipped. That agros their entire corp. Once you draw agro by taking back "your" ore, you are effectively saying you think you can defeat all their corp mates in pvp.
In my experience, pvpers only engage if they are pretty sure they can win. Unless there is more to you than appears (a nice pvp ship, corp-mates to help you, etc) do not give them free kills by engaging in a fight. Once you give them a kill, they will note your character and come back for more.

message me in-game if you'd like more help.

What rocks are the most isk per hour to mine? Which of your mission loot is worth more refined than sold? What blue prints make the most proffit? Answers: https://eve-industrialist.com/ Never sell an item for less than its mineral costs again!

Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#5 - 2011-09-12 05:46:40 UTC
I know how you feel... believe me... I've been in your position. Most of us have. I almost quit several times when i was starting out... but as you learn the ropes it gets a LOT better.... that said there's a few things you should know about game mechanics here:

Quote:
...warp scrambling and trying to ransom me

Not in Empire space. The only place they could do this and not have CONCORD (the invincible, indestructible NPC police) wipe them all out is either in LowSec space (0.4 to 0.1) or null sec (0.0 or lower). Warp scrambeling is an act of agression, and in Empire that's a sure ticket to explosionville.

Quote:
...They of course turn aggressive, and I figure I'll use my shiny new cruiser to stop them. I've had enough, and won't be pushed around in my little weakling mining frigate anymore. Next thing I know a security ship warps into the system and one shots my cruiser.

CONCORD doesn't roll in one ship, they roll in many. Are you sure it was a security ship and not another player? A tactic of high-sec pirates is to get into a gang and send one ship in to get you to agress them. Salvaging alone will not get them a security flag... only looting cans or wrecks you own. Once they are flagged, they still can't shoot at you without CONCORD intervention. In order to do that, you need to shoot at one of their ships. When that happens, their whole gang can shoot back. That's when their mussel will warp in and kill you. As a rule of thumb starting out, you can join a player corp and roll with numbers, or simply 'take it' and allow them to steal your stuff. It is a brutal game... truly.

I wonder... were you by any chance in LowSec? Going to LowSec is inherently dangerous. In HighSec, however, you are fairly well protected save thieves trying to draw your aggression... once you shoot at someone, regardless of circumstance, EvE game mechanics allow them to shoot back.

In my experience the toughest part of EvE is the first few months. Because it's so cut-throat, people unfamiliar with the game mechanics (and yes I know there are a hell of a lot of them) are at an extreme disadvantage... it's what we refer to as the gentle learning cliff of the game. This is why player corporations are so critical. I could have saved myself a lot of frustration and some near computer screen punches if I had joined a corp earlier than I did. One that I've heard a lot of good things about is EvE University. They've been helping new players learn the ropes and assist in their defense since long before I started. Their directors are some of the most experienced players in the game, and yes they take anyone wanting to learn the game. It's a very positive environment to learn in. If you have a little 'yar' in you and the words "positive enviornment" make you want to throw up in your mouth like they do for me, I recommend starting out in a good old-fashioned pirate corp (but not the Goons, Goon-fleet... pretty much anything with "goon" in the name... they will just abuse you and steal from you). I started out in a Sniggwaffe 'noob' corp called "Demon Womb." If you are interested in becoming a player killer, I can't recommend them enough. They can drop you into 0.0 right away and are very through in teaching you the game... it was still to this day the best corp I ever joined. Once you get your 'space legs' you will learn how to turn these brutal and extensive game mechanics to your advantage... and when you do that EvE becomes an entirely different game. I promise, one day you will undock into your corporation's fleet, and it will be like undocking for the first time.

Fly safe... er...

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Aayla Reyvar
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-09-12 06:30:22 UTC
It told me that I'd done a big no-no and that I should vacate the area, the whole screen started flashing red, and the biggest ship I've ever seen appeared in front of me and blew me up in one shot all in about a second.

They were flashing yellow, with a skull in the lower right corner of the icon I believe. Seen it many times after people take my ore.

They did warp scramble me, and it was right there on noob island. I was stuck with him following me around in an asteroid field taking the occasional potshot at me for quite awhile. I've never been anywhere with a security rating under .6, and that was only one time. The vast majority of my time so far has been in .8 sectors.
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#7 - 2011-09-12 06:32:18 UTC
Aayla Reyvar wrote:
So, I finally bought a brand new cruiser. Been working on it for several weeks. Nonstop harassment from other players, thieves taking everything I manage to mine, jetcan swapping and killing me when I attempt to loot my own ore, warp scrambling and trying to ransom me.. Easily the worst experience I've ever had in any game. But hey, it all paid off in the end right?

No. Not really. Took that new cruiser out and cleared out a pirate base for fun. Start salvaging all the ships, and someone else warps in and starts salvaging all my stuff. They of course turn aggressive, and I figure I'll use my shiny new cruiser to stop them. I've had enough, and won't be pushed around in my little weakling mining frigate anymore. Next thing I know a security ship warps into the system and one shots my cruiser.

I've no idea what happened, what went wrong. They stole from me, I shot, and I'm the bad guy? Where were those police guys when I was being bullied nonstop for the last few days? Nothing in this game makes any sense..


LOL Welcome to eve. With no relation to WoW what so ever! Twisted

We have all been through this. In the beginning I use to be a carebear. One day early on I was ganked and it changed me into a bad person just like the people who violanced my ship and more. This is my 2nd time going -10.0, (damn 0.0 gate rats every now and then wile gate camping doesn't make it a true -10.0 but whatever.) I am not going to even try to ever raise my sec status again, it has been a good year. +1000 kills later in the past few years, being casual pirate to pure pirate off and on now to stay as one.

Point is I had a dream of becoming powerful and living how I wanted in riches. I use to be nothing but a carebear, now I am a ruthless killer criminal. I made it happen by making a choice. My role models happened to be the ones who popped my T2 mining barge so many years ago. How ironic huh because I said hay I want to do that too. XD I use to only suicide gank people in the beginning then with few pvp gangs I started racking up a lot of kills in 0.0. Now I have done a fair bit of lowsec and w-space 0.0 mixed. It is quite a lot of fun, but it is ironic I sort of use to be like you in the beginning. But it didn't want to make me quit. It made me want to blow people up. lol Twisted
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#8 - 2011-09-12 06:41:46 UTC
Aayla Reyvar wrote:
It told me that I'd done a big no-no and that I should vacate the area, the whole screen started flashing red, and the biggest ship I've ever seen appeared in front of me and blew me up in one shot all in about a second.

They were flashing yellow, with a skull in the lower right corner of the icon I believe. Seen it many times after people take my ore.

They did warp scramble me, and it was right there on noob island. I was stuck with him following me around in an asteroid field taking the occasional potshot at me for quite awhile. I've never been anywhere with a security rating under .6, and that was only one time. The vast majority of my time so far has been in .8 sectors.


Sounds like you stole from them with out realizing it and they killed you because they tricked you into aggression. Pirate
I'thari
#9 - 2011-09-12 07:01:36 UTC
related

Well, you were wrong in your assumption: he did not agress you that time, it seems: you have -0.1 security status atm (which is about right for attacking someone in empire after killing few NPC frigs while mining). Salvaging is not an act of agression - it belongs to one who was there first with salvager handy (favorite subject for carebears to qq about).

You can only shoot people who (by default) are either red (pirate or has agression) or flashy red (war target) in overview. There's also flasy orange for militia war targets, but that's not the case here.

Yellow (along with yellow skull) only indicates low (below 0 but higher than -5.0) security status (which you have right now, congrats - might scare off some newbs)... red skull indicates GCF (global criminal flag) - which you get for engaging someone who has not agressed you in space with security above 0.0.

Also, before trying to kill someone you really should read somehting like this to know basics about timers, fittings and such.

Disclaimer:

Every single character used in this post is a work of fiction. Any similarities with real-world alphabet, or - god forbid - language is purely unintnetional!

Amun Khonsu
Ice Fire Warriors
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#10 - 2011-09-12 08:31:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Amun Khonsu
Aayla Reyvar wrote:
So, I finally bought a brand new cruiser. Been working on it for several weeks. Nonstop harassment from other players, thieves taking everything I manage to mine, jetcan swapping and killing me when I attempt to loot my own ore, warp scrambling and trying to ransom me.. Easily the worst experience I've ever had in any game. But hey, it all paid off in the end right?

No. Not really. Took that new cruiser out and cleared out a pirate base for fun. Start salvaging all the ships, and someone else warps in and starts salvaging all my stuff. They of course turn aggressive, and I figure I'll use my shiny new cruiser to stop them. I've had enough, and won't be pushed around in my little weakling mining frigate anymore. Next thing I know a security ship warps into the system and one shots my cruiser.

I've no idea what happened, what went wrong. They stole from me, I shot, and I'm the bad guy? Where were those police guys when I was being bullied nonstop for the last few days? Nothing in this game makes any sense..



Sounds like you shot them without them aggressing you (by stealing from you).

Its important that you learn the nature of aggression in the game. Also, its important that you skill up your cruiser related skills and learn how to PvP in the game. Many corps can teach you this.

Basically, you cannot shoot anyone in high sec without CONCORD killing you unless, they steal from you or are wartargets or are -5 security status or below. They can salvage your stuff without aggression against you so you wont be able to shoot them for salvaging.

Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts. www.ross-fw.net

Ruban Spangler
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-09-12 08:49:06 UTC
To work out what went on in these sort of situations check your logs and killmail carefully.

Best advice while still new to pvp and aggression is
1) Don't disable any warning messages. And pay attention to those you do get. You cannot negotiate with CONCORD and their decision is always final.
2) Don't rush into things. If you are in highsec you have the luxury of taking your time. Look at your opponent (show info).
3) Never aggress anyone unless you are willing to risk your ship.
4) 99.9% of the time it is a tarp.
Amun Khonsu
Ice Fire Warriors
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#12 - 2011-09-12 09:11:15 UTC
Ruban Spangler wrote:
To work out what went on in these sort of situations check your logs and killmail carefully.

Best advice while still new to pvp and aggression is
3) Never aggress anyone unless you are willing to risk your ship.
4) 99.9% of the time it is a tarp.


The two basics of PvP warfare

+1

Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts. www.ross-fw.net

malaire
#13 - 2011-09-12 09:16:56 UTC
Ruban Spangler wrote:
1) Don't disable any warning messages. And pay attention to those you do get. You cannot negotiate with CONCORD and their decision is always final.

If you think you might've disabled some important warnings, go to
"ESC -> Reset Settings -> left column: Reset Suppress Message Settings" and reset any warnings you want there.

Everytime you try to do something which will get CONCORD to kill you, you will get warning and chance to cancel, unless you disable that warning.

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

Ackbarre
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-09-12 12:06:36 UTC
Just to show not all goons are bad and evil. I gave this poor newbie 50m with the message buy yourself several new cruisers. All of us even goons were once newbies. It's just as a goon we don't live in hisec and yes many of us will steal all your isk and destroy your only ship. Not all of us will do that though. As someone from a dead alliance once said "Goons are the evil version of Eve-Uni". We take our newbies and give them the right direction and guidance they need and help them along the way to becoming good at Eve.
Amun Khonsu
Ice Fire Warriors
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#15 - 2011-09-12 12:20:25 UTC
Ackbarre wrote:
Just to show not all goons are bad and evil. I gave this poor newbie 50m with the message buy yourself several new cruisers. All of us even goons were once newbies. It's just as a goon we don't live in hisec and yes many of us will steal all your isk and destroy your only ship. Not all of us will do that though. As someone from a dead alliance once said "Goons are the evil version of Eve-Uni". We take our newbies and give them the right direction and guidance they need and help them along the way to becoming good at Eve.


Good man. Its always in your best interest to keep EVE populated with victims. heh

Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts. www.ross-fw.net

Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#16 - 2011-09-12 16:29:23 UTC
Ackbarre wrote:
Just to show not all goons are bad and evil. I gave this poor newbie 50m with the message buy yourself several new cruisers. All of us even goons were once newbies. It's just as a goon we don't live in hisec and yes many of us will steal all your isk and destroy your only ship. Not all of us will do that though. As someone from a dead alliance once said "Goons are the evil version of Eve-Uni". We take our newbies and give them the right direction and guidance they need and help them along the way to becoming good at Eve.

LOL!

And this is your first lesson in scamming....

Avoid Goons for now. ("Never trust a goon" is sound advice...) When you know the game better and if your hatred of humanity is great enough, and if your not afraid to get ripped off, than by all means get involved with them... otherwise just shoot at them.

To their credit... they do some funny smack sometimes.

They formed a huge fleet of rookie ships one time and killed a battlecruiser. I think it was a Firox. I don't care who you are... that is funny as hell.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#17 - 2011-09-12 16:51:46 UTC
Tons of really good advice in here already. A few more tips:

- Rat, mission, and mine in nice quiet out of the way systems. Look for systems that have very few players in them.

- Use your map to find places that are quiet and have low/none ship loss activity. Hit F10, toggle the map so it shows the entire universe, then on the map control panel select stars and scroll down to the folder named Statistics. Select "ship kills in last hour" and "ship kills in last 24 hours" - your map will fill up with lots of big orange/yellow blobs. Look for nearby systems that have little or no ship kills - those are the systems without any colored circles on them, or very small ones.

- Fitting your ship effectively will help you tremendously. The fit on your Arbitrator is, um, colorful, shall we say. Granted, my early ship fittings were far worse Oops Go to the very first page of this forum section and look for posts by Eternum Praetorian. Read them all, they are extremely helpful.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6717&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6701&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6698&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6724&find=unread

- As already suggested, consider joining Eve-Uni. http://www.eveuniversity.org/ Even if you aren't interested in joining them, their Wiki is filled with much advice - total awesomeness!

- Consider taking the PVP-Basics class offered through Agony Unleashed - seriously fun stuff! http://www.agony-unleashed.com

- Find a player corp to join.

- Finally, remember the security forces NEVER PREVENT crimes, they only punish them.

Don't give up on Eve, it's absolutely worth the learning cliff err I mean curve!

GG

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!

Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information

Leeroy McJenkins
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-09-12 17:57:13 UTC
Amun Khonsu wrote:
Ackbarre wrote:
Just to show not all goons are bad and evil. I gave this poor newbie 50m with the message buy yourself several new cruisers. All of us even goons were once newbies. It's just as a goon we don't live in hisec and yes many of us will steal all your isk and destroy your only ship. Not all of us will do that though. As someone from a dead alliance once said "Goons are the evil version of Eve-Uni". We take our newbies and give them the right direction and guidance they need and help them along the way to becoming good at Eve.


Good man. Its always in your best interest to keep EVE populated with victims. heh



Oh ****, he knows.

I Don't play EVE

My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2011-09-13 10:54:48 UTC
First let me tell you that if they are yellow (blinking or not) does´nt mean you are allowed to shoot. When a ship is BLINKY RED (with usual settings) meaning, this ship is already taking an aggressive action against you, and you may shoot at will.

Some hints for dealing with canflippers, and other highsec griefers:

When getting canflipped DON´T take your ore back, if said so, it´s a TRAP for killing your ship.

When someone is SALVAGING your wrecks, it´s NOT stealing, hence if you fire you will get concorded.

When someone is LOOTING your wrecks, he gets BLINKY RED to you, and you MAY start shooting, which i clearly would advise NOT to do for a newbie. Usually ninjas are waiting for it, have a better fitting, or backup ready. For such reasons i have a cloaked alt in an arazu in mission space, and i´m not new to this.

As in general, don´t smack in local if something like above happens, there is only one thing canflippers/ninjas/griefers and such individuals like more than your ore/loot/salvage, and that is YOUR TEARS. Add this scumbag to your buddy list and wait for the day when you dictate the terms of engagement, and may it be some suicide gank.

To avoid the above:

Simply move one or two systems, to more quiet areas. For mining a good hint is that there should´nt be more locals than mining belts. If missioning, the more locals are in system, the greater gets the chance that some of those locals are not mission runners, but ninjas.

Welcome to eve.
Amun Khonsu
Ice Fire Warriors
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#20 - 2011-09-13 11:53:19 UTC
Leeroy McJenkins wrote:
Amun Khonsu wrote:
Ackbarre wrote:
Just to show not all goons are bad and evil. I gave this poor newbie 50m with the message buy yourself several new cruisers. All of us even goons were once newbies. It's just as a goon we don't live in hisec and yes many of us will steal all your isk and destroy your only ship. Not all of us will do that though. As someone from a dead alliance once said "Goons are the evil version of Eve-Uni". We take our newbies and give them the right direction and guidance they need and help them along the way to becoming good at Eve.


Good man. Its always in your best interest to keep EVE populated with victims. heh



Oh ****, he knows.


heh, thats why they pay me the BIG ISK ^;..;^

Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts. www.ross-fw.net

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