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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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My argument in favor of skill remaps.

First post
Author
Doreen Kaundur
#1 - 2014-06-27 00:57:19 UTC
Im in favor of an annual skill remap along with the neural remap. Often the argument given against it is that you are responsible for you choices in Eve. True, but I found something interesting. This is my expereince:

I was training for a specific ship and modules. The training was 30+ days long.

Well, during that time of training Im doing other menial things within my current skills to keep me busy waiting for the clock to tick down so I can get into my uber ship. Curiously enough, during that month and a half wait, I am also learning other things I did not know before. With a week left of training, I decide I not longer want to take the route I had first intended and decided I would rather train in another direction.

Guess what? This change requires another month and a half wait.

During this time I considered just calling it quits. The chronic waiting to do what you want to do kills the “fun” factor of this game. You do remember “fun” right CCP? It’s something games incorporate to keep players interested. And although we are responsible for the decisions we make in EVE, keep in mind that new players also make decisions based on ignorance with no second chances. Now, you did start recently giving second chances with neural remaps for new players because of that very fact. So why not the same with skill points?

I would gladly pay a PLEX or two for a skill remap, but as not to cause any waves among the hardcore vets, I would rather opt for an annual skill remap along with the annual neural remap.

Once a year wouldn’t break anything...right? It would keep the game interesting as people can switch over to other activities they would normally have to wait months for in retraining.

One last option is to at the very least allow another skill remap or two for new players, like you do neural remaps.

Im just wondering if during my next long wait if I’ll just get interested in something else and have to restart my training all over again. And during the wait Im asking myself...why am I here playing a waiting game? Im not having any fun waiting.

OK, Im done.

Flame away capsuleers.

[center]1. Minor navigation color change. 2. Show bookmarks in the overview.[/center]

Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#2 - 2014-06-27 01:06:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Redundant, reported.

Thread number X+1 this week.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4733342#post4733342
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4713651#post4713651
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4473567#post4473567
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4452175#post4452175
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4412749#post4412749
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4355638#post4355638
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4283158#post4283158
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4139510#post4139510
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3996254#post3996254

Any questions why ?

Because:

16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

PS: This laziness and ignorance needs to be punished; and I used only the oh so broken forum search function, with google I could have given you probably more then a dozen or two threads.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#3 - 2014-06-27 01:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaerakh
Doreen Kaundur wrote:
-snip-


Boohoo, that's your fault for being fickle. I have Hicters V, Grav Physics V, and Anchoring V, but I have almost zero plans to go back to nullsec and be a bubblemonmaster again. Sure, I'm not using those skills right now, but that was my choice and I live with it. It has consequence(a foreign concept I know, being responsible for your actions). I also have Recon Ships V, but my corp never needs me to fly ewar anymore so guess what? I don't do that anymore. Sure it sucks that it's just sitting around, but it's just like being certified to do something in the real world. Just because my current job doesn't require a certain certification doesn't mean that it was a total waste.

No skill is absolutely useless(with maybe the exception of astronautics and tac shield manip V). Therefore it's all in play and not useless.

Everyone will tell you the same exact thing and all your idea does is further homogenize the playing field and exacerbate FOTM trends.

Anyone who has seen the myriad of these posts with the same idea just with a slightly different horrendous flavor will tell you the same exact thing.

You make choices and they have consequences. Deal with it. It's your responsibility to think your plan through, research the problem, and take actions accordingly. In the words of my favorite developer, HTFU.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2014-06-27 02:42:29 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Redundant, reported.

Thread number X+1 this week.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4733342#post4733342
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4713651#post4713651
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4473567#post4473567
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4452175#post4452175
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4412749#post4412749
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4355638#post4355638
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4283158#post4283158
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4139510#post4139510
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3996254#post3996254

Any questions why ?

Because:

16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

PS: This laziness and ignorance needs to be punished; and I used only the oh so broken forum search function, with google I could have given you probably more then a dozen or two threads.
K'ahnBot® 2014 <3
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#5 - 2014-06-27 08:51:36 UTC
Doreen Kaundur wrote:
Once a year wouldn’t break anything...right?


So, I make (or buy from the bazaar) four characters (or get four accounts, doesn't matter in the end), train them to have a good amount of skill points, let's say 50 million. Now every time there's a major change in game I can fire up a different character, pay a plex for SP shuffle and be ready for the next FOTM.

Nope, not game breaking at all RollRollRollRollRollRollRollRollRoll

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#6 - 2014-06-27 08:54:06 UTC
No. For all the reasons it it's no, since the first pilot thought it was a good idea and suggested it.

Reported for being redundant.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Thorr VonAsgard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-06-27 09:07:33 UTC
Nope.

Only in eve online, patience is a gameplay, you should know it !

You miss blink ? Come and play with us at EVE-Lotteries.com !

Envie de fraicheur ? Frugu, le forum fruité est fait pour toi !

Saint Germain
Sekundu
#8 - 2014-06-27 09:19:02 UTC
In this situation, how about pausing an unfinished skill and being able to switch the time spent so far to another skill? (The time, not the skillpoints). It's still a big change, but it would give a little more flexibility.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
Lost Obsession
#9 - 2014-06-27 09:26:27 UTC
Not supported.

Yet again.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Doreen Kaundur
#10 - 2014-06-27 09:35:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Doreen Kaundur
Sable Moran wrote:
Doreen Kaundur wrote:
Once a year wouldn’t break anything...right?


So, I make (or buy from the bazaar) four characters (or get four accounts, doesn't matter in the end), train them to have a good amount of skill points, let's say 50 million. Now every time there's a major change in game I can fire up a different character, pay a plex for SP shuffle and be ready for the next FOTM.

Nope, not game breaking at all RollRollRollRollRollRollRollRollRoll


Buying and selling characters is not part of the "game."
It is also a very limiting "service" because you cant even change your character's name. Besides, with a one time skill remap for new players, nothing is broken.

All those agiainst this idea have yet to post a valid reason why.

All I see is "CHANGE?...IM SCARED. (Someone hold me)" Shocked

I think alot of you have a psychology bond withyour toons. Since you have dedicated so much time on them, all that effort would now seem pointless if you could remap the skills. But again, that is not part of the "game" and diminshes the "fun" factor.

Remember, Eve is about spaceships. Not about spooning with your toon.

[center]1. Minor navigation color change. 2. Show bookmarks in the overview.[/center]

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#11 - 2014-06-27 10:15:48 UTC
The problem with skill remaps is that it makes the attribute remaps pointless. I can just throw in Int/Mem, keep hammering at some industry skills and then just remap these skillpoints to Cha/Will maintaining the consistent a little bit under ~3000 sp/h training rate.

Among other issues. In addition to creating very specialized alts for FOTM for more experienced players. With approx 12 mil SP you can do a very focused almost max skill character for one cruiser or below class ship.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#12 - 2014-06-27 11:40:35 UTC
Doreen Kaundur wrote:

During this time I considered just calling it quits. The chronic waiting to do what you want to do kills the “fun” factor of this game.


What requires months of skilling to do on the most basic level?

exploration? no
PvP? no
Mining? no
Research and production? no
Missions? no

hmmm...

Doreen Kaundur wrote:

You do remember “fun” right CCP? It’s something games incorporate to keep players interested. And although we are responsible for the decisions we make in EVE, keep in mind that new players also make decisions based on ignorance with no second chances. Now, you did start recently giving second chances with neural remaps for new players because of that very fact. So why not the same with skill points?


Meaningful choices is the fun. Welcome to eve, the game of the super nerds.

Attribute remaps and skill remaps are not the same. If u screw up ur attributes or (picked the wrong race way back when) ur training can be penalised for up to a year (or forever). If u train the wrong skill, ur training is in no way penalised and u can switch training at anytime.

Noobs are least of all affected. What skills are they going to train so early on that they end up never using?

When did remaps start? the games only 11 years old and remaps have been round for at least four of them.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Mag's
Azn Empire
#13 - 2014-06-27 11:48:15 UTC
Doreen Kaundur wrote:
All those agiainst this idea have yet to post a valid reason why.
It doesn't work that way. As you are the one requesting a change, the onus is upon you to provide a valid reason for a change.

Telling us you changed you mind half way through a skill, isn't a valid reason. That only tells us you are not focused on a goal.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#14 - 2014-06-27 12:05:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jint Hikaru
Doreen Kaundur wrote:


I was training for a specific ship and modules. The training was 30+ days long.

Well, during that time of training Im doing other menial things within my current skills to keep me busy waiting for the clock to tick down so I can get into my uber ship. Curiously enough, during that month and a half wait, I am also learning other things I did not know before. With a week left of training, I decide I not longer want to take the route I had first intended and decided I would rather train in another direction.

Guess what? This change requires another month and a half wait.

During this time I considered just calling it quits. The chronic waiting to do what you want to do kills the “fun” factor of this game..


For someone who has only been in the game for 1 month and 23 days, your claims that you can't do anything for another month and a half before you get in your "uber ship" make me laugh.

I would suggest a couple of things:

1. HTFU
2. an "I want it NOW" attitude does not go far in Eve.
3. Training takes time and planning.
4. Play Eve for at least a year before coming here and suggesting changes to core parts of the game.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#15 - 2014-06-27 12:19:08 UTC
Reported.

If you're suggesting a change of game mechanics, it belongs in F&I.

But since it's also a quit thread, it belongs in OOPE too.

Thus, in before lock.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#16 - 2014-06-27 15:32:48 UTC
Repost. Or how copy > paste often is quite handy for the hard working forum moderator.

I have said it before and will say it again: If you find a thread or post to be breaking the forum rules, please do report it. It is however not necessary to post in the same thread that you did so, as by doing so you are breaking said rules yourself by posting off topic. I can assure you each and every report we get gets looked at and acted upon by CCL.
Also, quoting the rules yourself is a bit daft as each and every poster on the forum should know them themselves.....

That said, on to business: As there already are and have been multiple threads on the same topic, this one gets a lock.

16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)