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POS access changes
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#1 - 2014-06-19 16:08:11 UTC
I was on SiSi this morning and something strange happened.

I have been on a break for 6 months or so and just came back, but I have not read anything about this.

I was testing some of the new starbase stuff. When I logged back in later after setting up a POS the auto warp landed me over 100 km outside the POS. Then when I tried to slow boat into the POS I bounced off the shield. I had to put in the password in order to get in. Not a big deal, but not what I remembered.

In my experience only non corp members need the password to access the POS. This character was not only a director in the owning corp, but also the one who anchored and onlined it.

My question is, is this a bug, or is it an intended change. I hope that it is intended as it would add huge utility to POS management for industrial corps. To be able to lock out other corp members, even directors, by not giving them the password, players could set up personal POSes, without worry of other corp members stealing their stuff.

I did include this in a post on the test server feedback forums, but I wanted to make sure this was not just a change I had missed. It is not happening on TQ, corp members still come ang go freely, but it is on SISi, as soon as I change my access password, i can not get back in until inputting the correct password. Again, this character is a director in the corp that owns the POS.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2014-06-19 17:17:50 UTC
You have to set the force field to allow corp and or alliance.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#3 - 2014-06-19 17:26:00 UTC
yes, but currently on TQ if you are in the owning corp you do not need the password to get in. On SiSi right now you do. even a corp director can be locked out, if the one onlning the POS does not give them the password.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#4 - 2014-06-19 21:36:07 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
yes, but currently on TQ if you are in the owning corp you do not need the password to get in. On SiSi right now you do. even a corp director can be locked out, if the one onlning the POS does not give them the password.



Are you sure you actually ticked the corp box....
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2014-06-19 22:12:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Loraine Gess wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
yes, but currently on TQ if you are in the owning corp you do not need the password to get in. On SiSi right now you do. even a corp director can be locked out, if the one onlning the POS does not give them the password.

Are you sure you actually ticked the corp box....

Both Loraine Gess and I are referring to the checkbox at the bottom (you also have an alliance one when in an alliance):

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/w/images/d/d0/POSForceFieldSettings2Online.jpg
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#6 - 2014-06-20 03:54:59 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
yes, but currently on TQ if you are in the owning corp you do not need the password to get in. On SiSi right now you do. even a corp director can be locked out, if the one onlning the POS does not give them the password.

Are you sure you actually ticked the corp box....

Both Loraine Gess and I are referring to the checkbox at the bottom (you also have an alliance one when in an alliance):

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/w/images/d/d0/POSForceFieldSettings2Online.jpg

No I did not check the box. Are you telling me If I launch a POS on TQ, set the password, and do not check the box, I can lock out everyone in the corp that does not have the password? Since when, I have been gone for 6 months, but one of the biggest complaints about POSes since I have been playing is that there is no way to protect against theft within your corp. If it was this simple, that problem would not exist. All you would need is the right POS roles, you could launch your own POS, and not give anyone, even in your corp the password. But that is not how it works, at least on TQ. I have a POS on TQ as well. It does not behave this way.

I am talking about the test server, not TQ. On TQ the POS behaves exactly as it has for the past 6 years I have been playing. On the test server it is behaving different. Since there has been no mention about it from developers, I am assuming it is just a bug. I just noticed it today after the update, I'll test it again tomorrow to see if it has changed.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2014-06-20 04:07:06 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
No I did not check the box. Are you telling me If I launch a POS on TQ, set the password, and do not check the box, I can lock out everyone in the corp that does not have the password? Since when, I have been gone for 6 months, but one of the biggest complaints about POSes since I have been playing is that there is no way to protect against theft within your corp. If it was this simple, that problem would not exist. All you would need is the right POS roles, you could launch your own POS, and not give anyone, even in your corp the password. But that is not how it works, at least on TQ. I have a POS on TQ as well. It does not behave this way.

I am talking about the test server, not TQ. On TQ the POS behaves exactly as it has for the past 6 years I have been playing. On the test server it is behaving different. Since there has been no mention about it from developers, I am assuming it is just a bug. I just noticed it today after the update, I'll test it again tomorrow to see if it has changed.

It has been this way as long as I know, and that since 2009. I can't say how it was earlier.

The problem has always been that the role Config Starbase Equipment gives one full control over _all_ POSes, and it is needed for many common tasks.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#8 - 2014-06-24 19:12:51 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
yes, but currently on TQ if you are in the owning corp you do not need the password to get in. On SiSi right now you do. even a corp director can be locked out, if the one onlning the POS does not give them the password.


If the allow corporate/alliance member access box is not ticked, the POS shield will disallow access by anyone without CEO, Director, or Config Starbase Equipment roles, unless they have the POS shield password entered. Has been that way for years.

Most corp thefts occur because someone gave out roles without understanding exactly what they do, or to whom they are giving those roles.

For example, Starbase Fuel Tech role allows one to remove fuel from the POS, thus causing it to go offline. And any modules at the POS configured to allow fuel techs to remove stuff can be utterly cleaned out.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#9 - 2014-06-24 20:09:07 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
yes, but currently on TQ if you are in the owning corp you do not need the password to get in. On SiSi right now you do. even a corp director can be locked out, if the one onlning the POS does not give them the password.


If the allow corporate/alliance member access box is not ticked, the POS shield will disallow access by anyone without CEO, Director, or Config Starbase Equipment roles, unless they have the POS shield password entered. Has been that way for years.

Most corp thefts occur because someone gave out roles without understanding exactly what they do, or to whom they are giving those roles.

For example, Starbase Fuel Tech role allows one to remove fuel from the POS, thus causing it to go offline. And any modules at the POS configured to allow fuel techs to remove stuff can be utterly cleaned out.

This character is a Corp director, So he has the Config Starbase Equipment role checked, he has all roles, being a director, but still could not get in without the password. Maybe they finally fixed it, or it might just be a bug. SiSi is full of bugs right now.

This is what I am saying, it is NOT the same as it has been for years, it is different on SiSi now. A corp director can not get in without the password. that has never happened to me before, i have been working with POSes for years. Even a corp director could not get in, even though he was the one that anchored the POS.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2014-06-24 20:19:46 UTC
this is literally the way it has always been and people are wrong that you could get in with roles before with the box unticked: I have had a freighter fail to get in shields when I misconfigured the tower on tranq before - on a director character.

basically if you think this is new you're wrong
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#11 - 2014-06-24 20:46:57 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
this is literally the way it has always been and people are wrong that you could get in with roles before with the box unticked: I have had a freighter fail to get in shields when I misconfigured the tower on tranq before - on a director character.

basically if you think this is new you're wrong

All i know is i have never had to input a password before for my own POS.

I have been gone for a while, it is possible that I always had the box checked. Odd that I never noticed this before.

If this is the way it has always been, then you have always been able to have a private POS, that everyone, including directors can not get into? As long as you had roles in the corp to access your own POS. Nobody else can get inside without your permission/password.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2014-06-24 22:12:19 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
this is literally the way it has always been and people are wrong that you could get in with roles before with the box unticked: I have had a freighter fail to get in shields when I misconfigured the tower on tranq before - on a director character.

basically if you think this is new you're wrong

All i know is i have never had to input a password before for my own POS.

I have been gone for a while, it is possible that I always had the box checked. Odd that I never noticed this before.

If this is the way it has always been, then you have always been able to have a private POS, that everyone, including directors can not get into? As long as you had roles in the corp to access your own POS. Nobody else can get inside without your permission/password.

Anyone with roles can simply check the box and walk in, or set a new password and walk in, since they can manage the pos from outside the shields (which is how I got my freighter back in) so you're not actually securing the pos against them you're just annoying them. It would make more sense for people with roles to always get inside the shields but I assume fixing that would be ... tricky.
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2014-06-25 09:08:43 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
this is literally the way it has always been and people are wrong that you could get in with roles before with the box unticked: I have had a freighter fail to get in shields when I misconfigured the tower on tranq before - on a director character.

basically if you think this is new you're wrong

All i know is i have never had to input a password before for my own POS.

I have been gone for a while, it is possible that I always had the box checked. Odd that I never noticed this before.

If this is the way it has always been, then you have always been able to have a private POS, that everyone, including directors can not get into? As long as you had roles in the corp to access your own POS. Nobody else can get inside without your permission/password.

You're clearly not understanding whats being said;

You can set a password and disable shield access for everyone, you have always been able to do this.

However; this will not prevent people with POS roles from accessing the towers management interface from outside the shield and changing the password or checking the boxes that allow access.

So no, giving everyone POS roles and having them drop their own passworded tower wont work because every single person with POS roles can go and change the password without entering the shield.

The Coreli Corporation is recruiting.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#14 - 2014-06-26 00:50:37 UTC
Joshua Foiritain wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
this is literally the way it has always been and people are wrong that you could get in with roles before with the box unticked: I have had a freighter fail to get in shields when I misconfigured the tower on tranq before - on a director character.

basically if you think this is new you're wrong

All i know is i have never had to input a password before for my own POS.

I have been gone for a while, it is possible that I always had the box checked. Odd that I never noticed this before.

If this is the way it has always been, then you have always been able to have a private POS, that everyone, including directors can not get into? As long as you had roles in the corp to access your own POS. Nobody else can get inside without your permission/password.

You're clearly not understanding whats being said;

You can set a password and disable shield access for everyone, you have always been able to do this.

However; this will not prevent people with POS roles from accessing the towers management interface from outside the shield and changing the password or checking the boxes that allow access.

So no, giving everyone POS roles and having them drop their own passworded tower wont work because every single person with POS roles can go and change the password without entering the shield.

OK, that makes sense. i did not realize that you could manage a tower from outside the shield. never actually tried that. I just assumed you had to be within 3,500m, which would require you to be inside the shield. I guess I just never bothered to uncheck the box before now.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2014-06-26 02:26:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
OK, that makes sense. i did not realize that you could manage a tower from outside the shield. never actually tried that. I just assumed you had to be within 3,500m, which would require you to be inside the shield. I guess I just never bothered to uncheck the box before now.

You need to be within maximum structure distance of a tower to manage it.

For a large tower it is 50 km (force field is 30 km).