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Mining Drone Love
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Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
gold fever
#1 - 2014-06-24 02:17:52 UTC
I have always been a fan of both mining and drones, but have been sorely disappointed by the merging of these two entities. I have listed some thoughts that range from plausible to bat **** crazy, enjoy.

1. Mining Drone Speed - Mining drones take up the bandwidth of a light drone, but have half the speed of a heavy drone. This really has no effect on miners that sit on the asteroid that their drones are on, but if you sit more than a few km off of the asteroid then you can really see the impact.

2. Drone Assist - This is mainly for the Orca pilots out there. I think it would be useful to be able to assign mining drones to another pilot. This pilot would direct the drones and they would return ore to his hold. An Orca pilot may feel like he is contributing more if he could control up to 50 mining drones. Big smile

3. Mining Drone Ship - This is my favorite of the topics. I would like to see a new ship that only mines by drones. Why? Because I want something different than the typical barge. For a T1 hull, it should have a yield around that of an Orca boosted Procurer (1841 m3/min). With rigs, a single Mining Drone II gets 85 m3/min, not including travel time. This would roughly come out to 22 Mining Drone II's Big smile. My preferred method of hitting this yield would be to allow extra mining drones (max 5 combat drones still) but I am sure someone will complain about the tremendous lag in those belts.

4. Salvage Drone Mechanics - This is the most OP item in the list. Add a mechanic similar to Salvage Drones to Mining Drones. If you have no asteroids targeted when you select Mine Repeatedly, the drones start mining the closest asteroid and keep mining until either the ship is full or there are no asteroids in range. Points that make this mechanic seem less OP; only the Orca would make sense to AFK mining using drones, drones dies easy and are now targeted by belt rats, and with travel time the income level goes down as you are AFK longer. Best part is that you don't have to micromanage your drones
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#2 - 2014-06-24 02:53:13 UTC
been saying the same thing for a year. + would be nice to have a BS mining vessels, and medium, heavy, and sentry mining drones. T1 and T2 versions. The mining drone skill + their own related skill in size would count. Heavy and Sentry could have Ice versions as well.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#3 - 2014-06-24 07:18:38 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
been saying the same thing for a year. + would be nice to have a BS mining vessels, and medium, heavy, and sentry mining drones. T1 and T2 versions. The mining drone skill + their own related skill in size would count. Heavy and Sentry could have Ice versions as well.


Rokh gets used for mining sometimes. Does that not count?

Friends
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#4 - 2014-06-24 08:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
I am a fan of mining drones and would like to see some changes, but ...

1.) The speed is not a n issue, they are active mining tools, not there to support sneak afk play.

2.) The same can be said here, assigning does not change anything but perception, not to mention it would create more problems and solves non.

3.) Yes, and it is being discussed, look at some of the T2 Orca suggestions, mine was to increase mining drone yield by +300% to be useful but not out-mine a decent skilled Mackinaw in its yield. I'd love top see an orca with 25 mining drones (+5/ level), but that's not gonna happen, so I prefer the bonus yield. Increased and bonused ore hold too, but different discussion

4.) Promotes afk play and is redundant. Mining drones are there to finish the roids with less ore then half or a quarter miner cycle. every 120-180 seconds you should scan roids, check cycle, assign drones, that's how you mine ... Not assign drones, hit biggest rock, come back in 25 minutes.

Overall, not supported and the T2 Orca is in another thread.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#5 - 2014-06-24 09:48:16 UTC
1 & 2 I could go for. +1 on those

3 & 4 no thanks. Promotes afk mining which isn't something I support at all.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#6 - 2014-06-24 09:51:17 UTC
Why not a low/high slot module that dramatically increases yield. This would compete with either MLU's or Strip Miners (or both slots, one passive for low that does less, one active for highs that does loads) meaning it wouldn't significantly affect barge yield, but would mean you could turn an orca into a drone mining monster with these and drone nav computers for speed, but it would come at the cost of no boosts/tractor beams from that orca.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#7 - 2014-06-24 09:54:26 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
been saying the same thing for a year. + would be nice to have a BS mining vessels, and medium, heavy, and sentry mining drones. T1 and T2 versions. The mining drone skill + their own related skill in size would count. Heavy and Sentry could have Ice versions as well.



Sentry extractors, lootable by everyone.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Joraa Starkmanir
Station Spinners United
#8 - 2014-06-24 11:16:11 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
1 & 2 I could go for. +1 on those

3 & 4 no thanks. Promotes afk mining which isn't something I support at all.


Onyl 4 promotes afk mining, sure 3 can be used if your afk longer than it takes a strip miner to clear an astroide but overall yield can be balanced to not make it to good. Dont mather if you have 10k m3/sec if you can only hold 10m3 ore before you have to warp to station...
Anthar Thebess
#9 - 2014-06-24 13:58:01 UTC
Mining drones?

Create frigate version that can be deployed from Ronqual.
Add Cruiser size version that can be deployed from carrier and super carrier.

Both versions can be only active ON grid.

I just wait to see all those ronquals , carriers and motherships dying while mining.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

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Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
gold fever
#10 - 2014-06-25 01:35:34 UTC
Since the topic was not flamed too hard I guess its worth some responses.

1. This topic had little opposition so no comments from me.

2. I agree that this only changes perception, but sometimes that is important. As a frequent fleet booster, I find that I don't feel like I am contributing. I know I make the fleet better with my mere presence, but I always do that Cool. I really don't need to be at my desk to do this, which means I am not really playing. And running 5 drones doesn't feel impressive compared to even a single boosted miner. But if I have 20..30..or 50 drones at my control, I would feel like I am doing something while not actually changing the fleets yield.

3. This ship promotes no more AFK mining than any barge/exhumer. You still have to lock targets and move ore. Also, while I am fine with a yield bonus and modules in favor of 15-20 drones, I am torn by the concept that more drones is bad in this case. The hull would have no more combat capability than a r4etreiver and the lag generated would be limited by the lack of use and location of the ship. While emergent game play does mean that some defending fleet may throw a wing of these ships out to cause lag for incoming pilots, it would be a suicide with those pilots floating around a combat site with 15-20 mining drones.

4. While I agree that this feature could be used to AFK mine, here is my counter. Of all the ships in the game, only 6 of the 10 ORE ships would be any good at it. Of those, 4 can AFK mine at a much higher yield and 1 never leaves the POS. Which leaves the all mighty Orca. On top of that, mining drones are just as susceptible to the AI change designed to combat AFK mission running with the additional penalty that mining drones cant fight back. Which means, worst case you will see some AFK Orcas in 1.0-0.9 mining Veld at a whopping 425 m3/min (minus travel time).
Inshallah Eichman
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-06-25 05:07:21 UTC
Anything that supports AFK activities is great. The game is just too slow and boring at some points. The salvage style mining drone sounds like the most awesome idea.
Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
gold fever
#12 - 2014-06-26 17:22:08 UTC
I looked at some numbers and did some quick testing and have the following notes.

1. With current T2 drones with no rigs or mods, you get 114m3/min effective yield at 32km (Hulks new Max range). If you increase the speed by 4xa (speed of T2 Hammerhead) that jumps to 216m3/min. And if instead you triple yield, cycle, and speed (speed of T1 Berserker) it goes to 260m3/min while maintaining a maximum of 309@0km.

4. Unfortunately for my AFK argument, T2 mining drones shrug off belt rats rather effectively. Meaning AFK drone miners would have to be managed the same way as other AFK pilots, ganker intervention Smile.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#13 - 2014-06-26 18:11:03 UTC
Lugues Slive wrote:
I looked at some numbers and did some quick testing and have the following notes.

1. With current T2 drones with no rigs or mods, you get 114m3/min effective yield at 32km (Hulks new Max range). If you increase the speed by 4xa (speed of T2 Hammerhead) that jumps to 216m3/min. And if instead you triple yield, cycle, and speed (speed of T1 Berserker) it goes to 260m3/min while maintaining a maximum of 309@0km.

4. Unfortunately for my AFK argument, T2 mining drones shrug off belt rats rather effectively. Meaning AFK drone miners would have to be managed the same way as other AFK pilots, ganker intervention Smile.


I could quote the rest too, but I'll leave it a t that.

1.) I might repeat myself here, but when you mine with drones more then 5 km away then youa re at the wrong position.

2.) (previous post) I am a fleet booster too and handling a mining fleet of 6+ (pilots, not alts) it can become quite some work where you are actually contributing with your active work so none but one needs to fly to station to empty the cargo hold. Added to the fleet boost you are contributing a lot, cutting cycle times down by 30 odd % and cutting down on warp and docking time to nearly 100%. And working like this actively, I can tell you, a 6 hour mining op is sweat job. (unless maybe you also have a 600.000m3+ freighter present). And if I have to tell you, that a fleet under 3 or 4 miners doesnt need an orca, then I can see why you feel like you are not pulling your weight, cause you arn't.

4.) And I am not sure, where you tested this in high sec (1.0 I guess) but T2 mining drones do get eaten by belt rats too if you afk too long.

5.) The missing and important part: Mining Yield
This is something that should be increased for certain ships (role bonus) as well as modules that increase yield, but are redundant for all common miners like rigs are for barges and exhumers atm., since you need those for cpu or tank.
Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
gold fever
#14 - 2014-06-26 18:31:37 UTC
1. While I totally agree that in their current state, drones used at 5km+ are "doing it wrong", in a game where you can mine at 32km and control drones well past that, why should we be stuck with a 5kmpriest limit?

2. My fleets usually consist of 6-12 miners and typically include some form of hauler, mainly because loosing range bonus can get to be a pain. And as I previously stated I know that a 60%change yield boost is significant, but outside of that, my job is a glorified jet can.

4. Testing belt rats in a 1.0 system seems a little daft. I was in a 0.8 system for hours, and while no faction rats appeared, I had no issues, rats either retarget too often or fixate on the ship instead if drones.

5. I don't think yield is an issue. In a Max yield, Orca boosted hulk, drones add 10% yield. This is sufficient for small drones when you compare them to the additional dps a BS gets from its light drones.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#15 - 2014-06-26 18:49:40 UTC
1,2 yeah sure.

3,4 hard to justify. so nope.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#16 - 2014-06-26 18:49:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Lugues Slive wrote:
... why should we be stuck with a 5kmpriest limit?

2. ...

4. ... Testing belt rats in a 1.0 system seems a little daft. I was in a 0.8 system for hours, and while no faction rats appeared, I had no issues, rats either retarget too often or fixate on the ship instead if drones.

5. I don't think yield is an issue. In a Max yield, Orca boosted hulk, drones add 10% yield. This is sufficient for small drones when you compare them to the additional dps a BS gets from its light drones.


1.) Nice to agree, but there is no correlation to the last. Neither lock range nor anything else demands by necessity faster flight time. Would be like arguing, "I got 120km drone control range and 110km lock range, why do my guards only hit 40km, need fix"°° and that is all I am going to say to point 1 from now on.

2) Sure can happen, I never had the feeling of being unnecessary, if that would be the case I would orbit the station and actively do soemthing else. Yes, agrred, can't call that mining 8).
And another thing that just came to mind, if the owner docks up, you will lose control of the drones which have to be reasigned, that would annoy me oh so much. Sure everyone always is on grid ?

4.) I am hanging in 0.7 space and I lose one if I am half asleep, but it happens rarely, below maybe more often, but that's beside the point in the beginning. So I guess personal experience ,)

5.) You missunderstand me, I don't meant the extra drone yield on miners, which should be clear from my post. Because currently you can only add rigs to increase drone yield and that is so little and the penalties so immense with just one rig, that it neither pays off nor is even possible in some cases (T2 IH, IHU vs CPU + penalty) .
But and Orca for instance could maybe have 3 rigs and 2 mid slots for drone yield, if the yield would pay off, which would (could/should) be emphasized by a role bonus, like the T2 Orca +300% mining drone yield suggestion. Other drone boats might also get a similar bonus for the odd mining support, I believe the ishtar or vexor or some ship has bonused mining yield for drones.
That is what I meant with increased yield.
Systemlord Rah
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-06-26 19:00:33 UTC
i like 1 2 and 3

4 is a little to afk friendly
Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
gold fever
#18 - 2014-06-26 19:12:50 UTC
I agree with a low slot yield module for drones.

I honestly thought they took away the Vexor and Arbitrator yield bonus when they removed the core faction mining cruisers, but it seems I'm wrong. Looks like the Vexor can hit near barge yield if both are unboosted.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-06-26 19:20:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
1.) The speed is not a n issue, they are active mining tools, not there to support sneak afk play.

Actually if you slap a 10MN afterburner on a Skiff or Procurer and orbit rocks to discourage gankers your ship will go faster than a perfectly skilled tech 2 mining drone.

While I am all for trade offs in fitting choices I feel that totally precluding the use of mining drones on a speed tanked barge is a bit much. Mining drones could use a bump in speed to, say, the speed of your average medium combat drone.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#20 - 2014-06-27 01:28:58 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:

Actually if you slap a 10MN afterburner on a Skiff or Procurer and orbit rocks to discourage gankers your ship will go faster than a perfectly skilled tech 2 mining drone.

While I am all for trade offs in fitting choices I feel that totally precluding the use of mining drones on a speed tanked barge is a bit much. Mining drones could use a bump in speed to, say, the speed of your average medium combat drone.


Isn't that afk mining ? Orbit to discourage gankers? You just need to be bumped for a sec and are are easy to hit. If the buffer tank doesn't discourage them, then the orbit won't either. Speed would be great none the less, but I still don't see its 'necessity'.
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