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How do you keep your WH POS fueled?

First post
Author
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#21 - 2014-06-24 20:51:47 UTC
tl;dr

Can I be that guy? Ok...I'm gonna do it.

"put fuel in it"
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#22 - 2014-06-24 21:00:57 UTC
Phoebe Buffet wrote:
We are a three girl corp that are struggling


So you figured you would mosey on over and see if any neckbeards might want to fuel it for you... right?

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Alundil
Rolled Out
#23 - 2014-06-25 01:16:06 UTC
Well said meytal. On point and your figures aren't far off either.

To op: welcome to wspace. Stay for a while. Tell your friends. We're all 'friendly'.

I'm right behind you

Remy Nolen
Sama Guild
#24 - 2014-06-25 05:00:36 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
Phoebe Buffet wrote:
We are a three girl corp that are struggling


So you figured you would mosey on over and see if any neckbeards might want to fuel it for you... right?


Nothing could possibly go wrong with this plan ever...Pirate
Punctured Condom
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-06-25 11:21:51 UTC
What is the problem, financing the fuel or hauling?
I would try to sort hauling if that is the issue. Here are one or two things you can think of doing if you can decently haul stuff in and out:

Put any reaction setup into your pos to reduce pos upkeep. The reaction needs to be profitable in terms of materials brought in vs exported materials. Even if your reaction produces 20 mil per month its money you can use for pos fuel. Look for all reactions not only wh sleeper gas.

Do you have POCOs sorted? having no tax on pocos will reduce import/export taxes and it adds up in long run and if you have barren/temperate/lava/plasma planets you can make them into factory planets. Factory planets earn more then extraction but your hauling m3 will skyrocket like mad. Having 0% tax on pocos will allow you to compete with high sec factory farms at least.

Example: With command center 5 you can fit 3 launchpads and 20 factories on a single planet. Hauling in mechanical parts (6000ish isk x 10 for 1 factory = 60000 isk) and consumer electronics (7000 isk x 10 = 70k isk) and then making robotics (3 pieces made from 1 factory = 3 x50k isk = 150k isk) and selling will get you 150k-130k=20k per factory per hour, thus one planet is 20k isk x 20 factories x 24 hours x 7 days = 67 mil per week, add more planets and you should be able to fund the pos easily. Of course my numbers are off and need to be substituted but hopefully you will see how much more better that is compared to extracting and making low tier garbage. Be ware though your hauling m3 needs will skyrocket like mad if you go this route though.

Production. Get couple arrays, online the one you need at the moment store the rest. I would start looking for faction ship bpc-s on market. Ship bpc-s take decently long to manufacture so you dont have to micromanage it all the god damn time. One character with material efficiency 5 and mass production 4 in theory for example should be able to make some money. The prices and profitability will change with crius so you need to do the math yourself. If you can squeeze some profit out that can help financing the tower. Also reprocessing minerals you mine in wh may potentially cut down on hauling. I dont know the m3 but maybe is maybe. Do some math and see for yourself.
Elmonky
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-06-25 11:50:27 UTC
Welcome to W Space!

Large Tower in a C2 = expensive to run, but an excellent choice bcause , really who wants to spend several hours banging on the shields unless you have 19 other friends? Plus then you have the powergrid and CPU to expand your operations.


If its a C2 the likelihood is it has a static to a higher class WH as well. Take a look in there every day (because it will change) look for gas sites you could have a sneaky smell of with a Venture equipped with gas huffers (C28 is worth 14 mill a hold iirc).


Split the PI across the three of you, or if you can 2 of you. Use the third person as a hauler of Ice products.

ONLY refine Ice in the POS until Crius launches. Everything else is capped at 75% yield. If you do mining operations you will likely find that you have more isogen and zydrine than you will ever need - sell the excess amounts of it and then buy Fuel blocks/Ice products and Trit/Pyerite because NOBODY should be mining Veldspar or Plagio in W Space. Too much effort for little return and risk of being jumped by roaming gangs of cloaky types.

Meytal
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-06-25 13:28:14 UTC
Alundil wrote:
Well said meytal. On point and your figures aren't far off either.

To op: welcome to wspace. Stay for a while. Tell your friends. We're all 'friendly'.

Yeah, it's really hard to make accurate estimates because so much depends on skill, fleet composition, numbers of alts running, system effects, etc. So far, the best I've been able to see per account is around 100m ISK/hr for shooting Sleepers in non-Magnetar C4. We're still really bad at escalations, so I can't even begin to estimate what that should bring in per account :)

I did check prices yesterday, and harvesting C320 with a max-skilled Venture/Prospect pilot is over 100m ISK/hr. AFK rock mining can produce a surprising amount of ISK, though expect to lose a lot of mining ships; don't use anything expensive if you do this. Lowsec ores are the best, probably due to nullsec mining bots flooding the market with minerals from the ABCs. (Ice mining is also up, and is only going to increase when Crius drops, but that's irrelevant to W-space).

Hybrid polymer reactions and T2 moon goo reactions are really hit and miss and the market fluctuates fairly rapidly; they are worth it if you produce/acquire the materials yourself with minimal outside purchases to squeeze out just that few more ISK before selling to the market, but probably not worth it if you import everything. Patience is key there, knowing when to dump and when to hold. I've given up polymer reactions and use the CPU for industry, producing what will sell at obscene profit margins and decent theoretical ISK/hr. A broad range of options is best to avoid crashing any one income source.

The best way to make ISK, though the least predictable and reliable, is to shoot people who have been shooting Sleepers for the last two or three hours, take any shiny that drops from their ships, and then harvest their proceeds. That's a great way to go "mining" too :)

All of this is because it seems like the OP was mostly concerned with costs for fuel, which indeed have gone up since the ice belt changes, approaching the better part of a PLEX per month. You can probably save 50 mil per month in fuel costs by manufacturing it yourself with decent blueprints, but as mentioned, the hauling needs are greater if you bring everything in from outside, at least until Crius drops. After Crius, both hauling efficiency and profit will make in-hole production desireable.

Or just sell PLEXes and buy fuel :)
ISD Supogo
ISD BH
ISD Alliance
#28 - 2014-06-25 19:49:52 UTC
Removed insulting comments.

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ISD BH Supogo

Bughunter

Equipment Certification and Anomaly Investigations Division (ECAID)

Interstellar Services Department

Nickolai Tesla
Nous Defions.
#29 - 2014-06-26 05:01:56 UTC
You and your 3 lady corp should leave WH space.
AssassinationsdoneWrong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#30 - 2014-06-26 05:41:54 UTC
Phoebe Buffet wrote:
We are a three girl corp Ugh


This is probably where the problem lies. You don't have to go to every hub/sub hub to look at different hues, shapes and prices of blocks before you go back to original hub to buy the ones you were going to buy anyway.

Jita has a really big mall.

The Nexus 7's

What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity

Phoebe Buffet
Dirty Martini Clinical Operations
#31 - 2014-06-26 11:54:07 UTC
Nickolai Tesla wrote:
You and your 3 lady corp should leave WH space.


Whatever for?
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#32 - 2014-06-26 12:16:34 UTC
Phoebe Buffet wrote:
We are a three girl corp Ugh


Pull a Dusette and whore for POS fuel. It's a totally viable solution. You just need to build up a customer base first. I may be in the market after what Candi said in that other thread >>

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

ArchAngael
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-06-26 15:54:59 UTC
I think the problem is the "3" part. Overhead gets cheaper the more people are involved. With three, you're looking at a lot of overhead per person.

If it was me, I'd daytrip or nomad with only three people. You could live out of an Orca or even an industrial, especially with the help of mobile depots.

Read my Pod and Planet fiction entry at http://blog.fenjaylabs.com/2015/11/12/the-best-sport-pod-and-planet-entry/

Take my Eve Online Ship identification quiz at http://fenjaylabs.com/EveShipIdQuiz

Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
#34 - 2014-06-26 16:21:48 UTC
Even in a C2 you shouldn’t have trouble fueling your Large POS. Roughly the price for a month of fuel is in the range of 450m Isk.

I know that looks like a lot, but if you have at least 3 characters and 5 planets doing PI you should be able to make that, no problem.

That’s 15 planets. Run it with 4 extraction planets making P1. Example… each planet just makes either Water or electrolytes. Each character can have 5 planets at level 4 skill. 2 for water, 2 for electrolytes. The 5th planet in the equation can be a factory planet.

This is a planet that will consume your P1 materals and make lets say coolant (P2). On a factory planet you can have around 19 advanced factories 2 launch pads and two storage facilities. Filling those 4 objects with 45km3 water, and 45km3 electrolytes will take on average 2 days to turn into coolant.

Then just go pick up the coolant, haul it to high sec when you have a good connection. Don’t haul it yourself, that’s a waste of time. Just contract 700,000 m3/1 billion worth of P2(coolant) to redfrog and haul it to Jita. Average charge for red frog is like 600k isk a jump, that’s cheap! Then just sell it.

You can turn over quite a bit of money in a week doing just that.

I made videos if you want to see how I set up my PI when I was doing it. (yes I know there are hot keys, now.)

http://invadingyourhole.blogspot.com/2013/09/how-i-do-pi-in-wormholes.html

GL and fight everyone you can!

Read more of my ramblings on my blog www.invadingyourhole.blogspot.com

Marsan
#35 - 2014-06-26 22:02:48 UTC
As you are going to have haul ice in you are better off going for max profit on the PI. Then haul it out, sell it, and buy fuel blocks.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Joran Sothos
H.E.L.P.e.R
#36 - 2014-06-27 03:18:58 UTC
Phoebe Buffet wrote:
Thanks for the serious replys. (some of them were anyways)
It has helped us think thru a few more things.
We know that we can fuel the POS but it would most likely take up a huge part of our earnings that way.
Thats what we are looking to change.
Recruiting is not an option.
Yes it is a Class 2.
We are doing PI up the ying yang.
We are good at avoiding hostiles.
So for three girls I think we are doing pretty well, except for the POS fuel issue.


Assuming you have all of the planets required to make POS fuel, 1 toon can make enough POS fuel PI components for 1 large tower/month using 5 planets. All you then need do is buy the ice products - around 150 - 180 mil/month - and build the fuel blocks in the hole. Just running the sites in the hole should be enough to pay for the ice products. Don't mess about ice mining or anything like that, just buy the ice products off the market.

The rest of your income comes from other types of PI (you do have all 3 alts on each account in the hole, right?) and from running the sites in your static wormhole connection.
Phoebe Buffet
Dirty Martini Clinical Operations
#37 - 2014-06-27 12:07:47 UTC
Bleh.....this whole situation is not getting any better.
We have tried to make some changes but have suffered some catastrophic losses while trying to do so.
Linda claims she is having lag/connectivity issues that caused the losses.
We may end up losing everything (or what is left) unless we can get a substantial loan or something.
Cry
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-06-27 12:11:46 UTC
Phoebe Buffet wrote:
Bleh.....this whole situation is not getting any better.
We have tried to make some changes but have suffered some catastrophic losses while trying to do so.
Linda claims she is having lag/connectivity issues that caused the losses.
We may end up losing everything (or what is left) unless we can get a substantial loan or something.
Cry



Pack up and rebuild. For a group your size maybe a C1 with a medium tower would be a better start. PI is just as good, sites are easier.

edit- or join a more established group and learn from them.
Scrinny ZuHeltzer
DerpDerp
#39 - 2014-06-27 19:57:47 UTC
All three of you are welcome to come into my C2, you'd have to join our corp mind but you can have a pos to yourself and with us all here you shouldn't have problems fueling your pos's
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#40 - 2014-06-28 03:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen Solarus
If you're planning to call that c2 your home for a long time, a large tower is a must. It would be very hard to take down, and probably not worth the effort of the attacker.

That being said, if its more of a short-term way of generating isk, a medium tower would save you alot of your fuel costs, and would still be quite annoying to take down if setup correctly, considering the c2 ship limitations. You could still get evicted though, assuming they really wanted your wormhole, or you really pissed someone off. Shocked

As far as how to get it in, you could make all the PI components in the hole, and just ship in the ice components and manufacture inside. This would save you part of the costs. Though personally i think it's easier to just buy the fuel from empire and ship it on mass. You still recoup some of the costs from selling the PI regardless. I wouldn't recommend mining the ice yourself, unless you really need to. There's entire legions of scrubs in empire doing that for you already. P

You might want to consider using a third party hauler service, like red frog freight, assuming you don't fly freighters yoursef. They're pretty damn quick, and could ship a ton of fuel to a system where you have an good exit, if you set it up as soon as the entrance forms. Then it would be a simple matter of shipping it in from only one system.

What catastrophic loss did you suffer?

Most of all, don't give up and don't listen to the haters. I hope to hear a good success story from your 3-girl venture!

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

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