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Dreads? Which one to get?
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Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-12-05 15:22:10 UTC
Zeerover wrote:
It all depends upon which battle you are in. Assuming a spending cap of 2.5 billion:


If you're afk shooting a POS (but those who do that in dreads often find themselves with lossmails) the Rev is the thing for you.

The Phoenix provides an extremely robust platform. It deals 11.3k dps out to 55k+, burst tanks 63k+ with 3m EHP. The downside is that in some engagements your targets can speed tank you, but for shooting fortified POS'es and bashing in triaged carriers it's perfect.

The Shield Moros manages a whooping 15.1k dps out to 21+31, burst tanks 39k on 2m EHP. It can switch to longer ranged ammo as well.

The Nalgfar tanks the same as the Moros with similar EHP, but "only" deals 11.5k dps, with 20+48 range on the AC AA EMP.


So Moros/Phoenix >>> Nalgfar/Revelation.

And if you have to ask about the relevance of burst tanks you need to get out and fly combat fleets with these before trolling on the forums Blink


Side note, I live in w-space, and Bhaalgorns are very common in the fleet setups that we run into. Neuting is a must because of mass limitations. As such, dreads that still shoot with no cap have a certain potency. Also, phoenix can't hit BS for **** under most / all circumstances. Any ship with guns can take advantage of someone who screws up and gets low angular velocity.
Zeerover
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2011-12-05 18:34:45 UTC
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Zeerover wrote:
It all depends upon which battle you are in. Assuming a spending cap of 2.5 billion:


If you're afk shooting a POS (but those who do that in dreads often find themselves with lossmails) the Rev is the thing for you.

The Phoenix provides an extremely robust platform. It deals 11.3k dps out to 55k+, burst tanks 63k+ with 3m EHP. The downside is that in some engagements your targets can speed tank you, but for shooting fortified POS'es and bashing in triaged carriers it's perfect.

The Shield Moros manages a whooping 15.1k dps out to 21+31, burst tanks 39k on 2m EHP. It can switch to longer ranged ammo as well.

The Nalgfar tanks the same as the Moros with similar EHP, but "only" deals 11.5k dps, with 20+48 range on the AC AA EMP.


So Moros/Phoenix >>> Nalgfar/Revelation.

And if you have to ask about the relevance of burst tanks you need to get out and fly combat fleets with these before trolling on the forums Blink


Side note, I live in w-space, and Bhaalgorns are very common in the fleet setups that we run into. Neuting is a must because of mass limitations. As such, dreads that still shoot with no cap have a certain potency. Also, phoenix can't hit BS for **** under most / all circumstances. Any ship with guns can take advantage of someone who screws up and gets low angular velocity.


Why would your dreads be shooting sub-caps and not the triaged Archon keeping their Bhaalgorn alive? Even with complete neut failure on your side (i.e. their triaged archon doesn't get neuted at all) 3 proper dreads plus support (40k dps total) will overpower a triaged Archon before it exits and can be capped up by it's buddy, and if it doesn't have a buddy the fight is over. This of course requires that you know when he enters a cycle, so you're not giving him that vital minute.

Now granted I don't know how wormhole mechanics affect that calculation, but it works for us in low-sec.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Qrwa2.png[/img]
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-12-05 22:16:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Demon Azrakel
Zeerover wrote:
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Zeerover wrote:
It all depends upon which battle you are in. Assuming a spending cap of 2.5 billion:


If you're afk shooting a POS (but those who do that in dreads often find themselves with lossmails) the Rev is the thing for you.

The Phoenix provides an extremely robust platform. It deals 11.3k dps out to 55k+, burst tanks 63k+ with 3m EHP. The downside is that in some engagements your targets can speed tank you, but for shooting fortified POS'es and bashing in triaged carriers it's perfect.

The Shield Moros manages a whooping 15.1k dps out to 21+31, burst tanks 39k on 2m EHP. It can switch to longer ranged ammo as well.

The Nalgfar tanks the same as the Moros with similar EHP, but "only" deals 11.5k dps, with 20+48 range on the AC AA EMP.


So Moros/Phoenix >>> Nalgfar/Revelation.

And if you have to ask about the relevance of burst tanks you need to get out and fly combat fleets with these before trolling on the forums Blink


Side note, I live in w-space, and Bhaalgorns are very common in the fleet setups that we run into. Neuting is a must because of mass limitations. As such, dreads that still shoot with no cap have a certain potency. Also, phoenix can't hit BS for **** under most / all circumstances. Any ship with guns can take advantage of someone who screws up and gets low angular velocity.


Why would your dreads be shooting sub-caps and not the triaged Archon keeping their Bhaalgorn alive? Even with complete neut failure on your side (i.e. their triaged archon doesn't get neuted at all) 3 proper dreads plus support (40k dps total) will overpower a triaged Archon before it exits and can be capped up by it's buddy, and if it doesn't have a buddy the fight is over. This of course requires that you know when he enters a cycle, so you're not giving him that vital minute.

Now granted I don't know how wormhole mechanics affect that calculation, but it works for us in low-sec.


1. Sometimes there are two dreads, an exiled dual eanm (b or a-type eanms for this are not rare) archon with links can tank them (potentially three if they are not all moroses) long enough for 3x full neut bhalls to kill the cap on one dread. Once the carrier can fully tank, you are screwed if you can not alpha the source of the neuts (see: Clarion call 3 vid and how RnK managed to mess up AHARM). If you do it right (see: lots and lots of webs, Loki is great for this), you can take those neuts off the field early and then kill the carrier at your leisure.

2. Sometimes they will bring about 7 guardians (many not shown) and no triage carrier because the lasttwo times they brought a triage carrier the fight did not go so well for them. Also, these guys.

EDIT: (Enemy )Triage carriers in w-space have no buddies in your wormhole, if you plan on leaving another way, you may as well bring a pair of dreads with you.
Colonel Astor
Doomheim
#24 - 2011-12-06 11:58:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Colonel Astor
Demon Azrakel wrote:


2. Sometimes they will bring about 7 guardians (many not shown) and no triage carrier because the lasttwo times they brought a triage carrier the fight did not go so well for them. Also, these guys.


some good looking results there, especially the first. As someone who follows w-space though, what about fights like this. Are there not enough dreads or is it not enough webbing?

The new dreads do look p awesome in wh space though.
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-12-06 17:03:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Demon Azrakel
Colonel Astor wrote:
Demon Azrakel wrote:


2. Sometimes they will bring about 7 guardians (many not shown) and no triage carrier because the lasttwo times they brought a triage carrier the fight did not go so well for them. Also, these guys.


some good looking results there, especially the first. As someone who follows w-space though, what about fights like this. Are there not enough dreads or is it not enough webbing?

The new dreads do look p awesome in wh space though.


I was not there and am not sure exactly what happened. I assume that the enemy had a triage carrier and/or proper logistics against what we had, which, as far as I can tell, was a pretty schizophrenic fleet setup that looks rather poor compared to what I am used to seeing from us. I see four Bhaalgorns on their side to our one. (From the BR) I see that we had one dread, which, quite frankly, was probably two or three too few. A solo rev cannot do much to a BS that has logi. A new moros will have issues, even with webs. Another two or three dreads may have put that fight in our favor, but another two or three Bhaals would have definately made the difference. I am somewhat confused, as I would have expected us to lose the capitals as well, so maybe I am not the best person to ask (both sides certainly reshipped a bit).

EDIT: There were some really bad ships and ship setups on our side, just sayin'. I do not think our bhaal ever got reps. I don't think the carrier even triaged...

So, no idea what happened, carrier probably managed to GTFO once we saw four bhaals.
mama guru
Yazatas.
#26 - 2011-12-06 19:41:47 UTC
A dread thread where people who dont fly dreads post their opinions. Here is what reality looks like:

Moros >Revelation >>>Naglfar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Phoenix.

And here is how it's fitted

[Revelation, Supercap Gank 1]
Capital Armor Repairer I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency XL
Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency XL
Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Multifrequency XL
Siege Module II

Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I



[Moros, Supercap Gank1]
Capital Armor Repairer I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I, Antimatter Charge XL
Siege Module II

Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


The moros does 9500 dps with level 4 dread/capital gun besides the t2 siege module. The Rev with the same relative skillset does about 7200.

You use close range weapons because in a real capital gank the cyno will be close to the hostiles. Any single dread bumped out of am/mf range does not warrant downgrading the entire fleet's dps by fitting the cap guzzling terrible dps long range turrets. Besides, with Radio/Iron at 90k you will still do the same damage as a LR cap turret using high damage ammo at 70ish k. Not to mention tracking vs supers is a non issue provided your own ship is stationary.





EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2011-12-06 22:08:01 UTC
Do large weapon rigs work on XL turrets?
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-12-07 04:22:13 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Do large weapon rigs work on XL turrets?


Yup.
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