Ships & Modules

There is a difference in popular and WAY TO POPULAR.


You can say that energy weapons are popular when compared to hybrids/drones and missiles since they get around 100k final blows plus but then Projectiles gets like 1,1Million more final blows

The only reason they are not OP as you like to claim it's the single fact that since everyone can fly them, then everyone it's in an even playing field wich it's not

All the people ask it's a balance so in a couple of years there is way more options than projectiles and projectiles all the way.

The ability to switch your crystals out instantly means that those crystals are actually useful for beams. The mid level Hybrid ammo is pretty much only useful for the Eagle. I'd be completely down with some ammo fixing - though the 5 second reload time is really nice and very underestimated.

-Liang

Take into account that in Eve it takes quite some time to spread around the word of the new FOTM, adjust the tactics and finally get all the needed skills by crosstraining. What you see now is the result of the broad mass training Minmatar since projectile buff. It will take a while until you see more Gallente for example, there needs to be some group of people who use them with effiiency and the word will spread around- just dont expect it to happen in 2 weeks.

I am sure that people will discover new tactics with the new Tier3 BC's and the hybrid buff so Minmatar use will decline a bit.

some will be using hams

I only see a couple ships that a really "op" in the mind of the nerfmatards. (( I use this term to refer to the folks who want to nerf minmatar for reasons that are in no way, shape, or form, based on valid reasons. )) The Angel lineup, Vagabond, and Cane. (If I'm missing a few, feel free to correct me. It's 4am.)

I agree that the range on some of these ships are excessive. I wouldn't be adverse to removing the range bonus and making it into a tracking bonus. This would force those pilots to manual pilot again and give other pilots a much greater chance of catching them or forcing them off the field. Tactics that work on Amarr, Gallente, and to a lesser extent Caldari, also work just as well on Minmatar. Tracking Disruptors for the most part negate any substantial damage from Minmatar guns, causing them to fight at the end of falloff and into 2x falloff. Sensor Damps keep them from locking at kiting ranges. ECM works just as well against them as they do against all the other races. Any of the recons will kill them just as they will any other race. Arazu kills their speed advantage. Rapier kills their speed advantage. Curse kills their MWD killing their speed advantage. Falcon…. Well everyone hates the falcon. Lol

I like flying solo on occasion, however, ships shouldn’t be nerfed or buffed because of solo play. Competent inty pilots are good for killing nano-ships. Scram them and they are dead. I say competent, because a lot of people will cry that they die trying to tackle said nano-ships. Competent inty pilots will know when to chase the nano-pilot off yet not so far as to leave the safety of their fleet and be picked off. They will also know how to manually pilot into range to tackle the nano-pilot while keeping up transversal. Dedicated tacklers (stiletto, malediction, etc…) have a nice range boost to scrams + heat, and you can shut off their mwd’s outside of neut range to allow your fleet to catch them.

Drones used to kill tacklers can just as easily be picked off by said tacklers / support until they are in range to kill the main target.

To say that you need to nerf kiting ships is basically removing the Minmatar play style (not to mention the play style of all other races that have kiting ships.) By doing this you would essentially have to turn Minmatar into Amarr or Gallente. That’s just silly. I believe that it is possible to keep kiting ships in the game without them being OP. Changing TEs to 15%/15% would probably be a good way to do this. Removing falloff bonuses on non-sniping ships and replacing it with a tracking bonus would be another way to help with this. This would allow the ships to continue to utilize their speed, yet it would cause the amount of room to error to be significantly decreased for kiting. They will always be able to GTFO when being competently flown. Just like active armor tankers will be able to disengage and survive on a gate long enough to jump out. If you have a properly formed fleet with good support and competent pilots, then there isn’t much that needs to be changed to bring things into balance.

Sorry if this is a bit incoherent, like I said, 4am here.

Let me start off by saying that what follows is not a troll. Was there a point to this reply? Popular can be argued to be a statistic. Way too popular is an opinion.

You are saying that they are not OP...?

Right now there ARE way more options that projectiles, a few projectile ships are just easier to fly than most and it seems like "most" people (in your terms) want to fly what is easier and not more challenging. Plenty of people do take the option of flying less popular and more challenging (and still very viable) ships. Some of the other ships are MUCH more powerful ships (arguable OP) then the select Minmatar ships that are argued as OP. They just require more attention and experience to fly. The first one that comes to mind is the Curse. A well flown curse can take out multiple oponents fairly efficiently.

I am not saying that there should not be ballance. However, I am saying that the ballance should keep variety while not limiting based on skewed opinions and statistics that aren't complete nor cover all bases.

So, I Just finished roaming 0.0 with a bro in Federation Navy Comet's. Only to be linked another ******** blog. Not surprisingly it was Liang's blog. After rolling my eyes and switching the subject, because clearly the trajectory of the coming conversation would only yield more eye rolling and rude statements on both our parts ("check this guys ******** blog out"). However, I was told there was something about the Rupture stated in this blog.

Knowing a little about this ship, I read Liang's blog post. Honestly, this is why I don't pay much attention to most of what he post nor care. Some of the only pilots that post on the forums that have the depth of knowledge in game to comment on most things seems to be Hirana Yoshida and Cpt bronk ( haven't seen him roaming Gallente low-sec in forever) who is not playing any-more. (Cpt bronk was also one of the handful of pilots who suggested the changes to tracking enhancers and realised very quickly what this would do to game-play) = check old projectile boost thread

Along with myself. These pilots were against changes to Minmatar because Minmatar ships and projectiles were and are really good. You often heard arguments by those like Liang saying they don't excel @ anything. Many like my self argued. Well that's right, because Minmatar ships are GOOD @ everything... Simply stated interpretations are often not enough for those who play with graph's and lack skill @ actual game-play. Constant comparisons between pulse lasers and beam lasers were made. Auto-cannons performance was inferior on graphs when compared to lasers (vacuum). Other factors often being ignored that compensated heavily. This can all be found by using eve search. I'm able to link mad statements from Liang. Something that could only come from someone with no experience and has never played the game in a challenging way (gank online). How would you know the extent of a ships abilities and your own if you never put it in situations that push the boundaries of any vessels performance.

Liang who for a long time wrote off solo engagements. Who often stated Minmatar was so much more inferior to Amarr because, they were not optimal in fleets. Although, still having the ability to disengaged and use it's superior mobility over other racial ships and has had a history of being incorrect about most everything having to do with engagements, ships and set-ups in-game.

Their are few on the forums who have credibility as a pilot and a leader. Liang has none of either and should stick to throwing out numbers and formulas within a vacuum.

I don't care about Liang's silly statements about many things, but the Rupture being inferior to a Thorax? I may be biased because it's my favorite ship, but I'm very sure the set-ups shown as examples were not optimal to taking full advantage of the Ruptures performance. I say that as a pilot who has massive experience with a Rupture. Engaging in very challenging engagements often in a armour-Rupture instead of a shield-Rupture. Please move silly arguments on to another class of ship please. Stick with battleships and graphing the difference between large weapon systems. Leave the lower classes of ships to those who've mastered them a very long time ago.

(with that all said. A armour-Thorax is a suitable alternative to a armour rupture fitted with with 2 gryo's)

I tend to only agree with Liang when he points out the obvious (which he does most of the time like most in-game who never innovate(think outside the box)) and the irrefutable. I'm more inclined to acknowledge the facts no matter what my biases. To ignore them would be foolish. Especially for someone (myself) who's always looking to improve in all areas of gameplay.


-Rupture being inferior to a Thorax? Really annoyed me to be honest...

Branko. -_-



Hurray, I correctly anticipated what people would say. Feel free to suggest ones that you feel are more appropriate.

-Liang

Perfect example... DON'T PRESS THE LEMMING BUTTON. Those who press the lemming button get called as next primary by FC. It only takes a few friendly fire incidents to get it out of most people... but then again, there are always some, and they will ALWAYS ruin your planned ambush.

Lemmings are bad.

Now then - on to the actual topic. Yes, minmatar were OP, and they were excessively popular. With the exception of the dramiel, I can't remember any changes that actually nerfed minmatar. However, I can tell you this right now - gallente still sucks. The agility boost still doesn't allow them to catch targets, they still have to go well into "i'm gonna die" range, and they still get kited to hell and back. As for any incidental changes to blasters - who knows and who cares? You're still gonna die and the rest of your fleet of minmatar buddies is going to be laughing on their way out of town while you will (if you're lucky) be following them in a pod.

Railguns may have been given new life breathed in them... but I doubt it. Yeah, a 1400mm tornado (or maelstrom) does about 100 less dps than a 425mm naga or talos, (but still beats the rohk and megathron in gun dps) but it has 11k alpha to the 4k of the naga/hyperion. The myrmidon is still useless once a gang gets past about 5 people, the ferox and the brutix are still horrible, an arty cane with 3 gyro's does all of 20 less dps than a brutix, and actually has the slots and fitting to put something else on - I won't even mention anything about what the ferox "manages". Part of that though is the fact that teir 1 BC's have been ignored basically since teir 2 came out - you can't really say anything good about the prophecy either, and the only good thing to do with a cyclone is make a slepnir.

The diemost still has nothing to recommend it over a brutix, even with railguns fit (and only an idiot is going to fit blasters to those things, unless they like regular, expensive lossmails) so the laser zealot ahac fleets haven't been disrupted there. And it still has that useless spare highslot and no available fitting to actually put something there. The rest of cruisers in general can pretty much be ignored, as they have been useless basically since teir 2 BC's came out (and another comment, the teir system, it used to make sense, ish. now... wtf?). I won't comment on the frigate level since I don't fly frigates, but I understand that 90% of frigs have to fight in scram range, and those that don't generally are hard to kite with.

So in conclusion, my guess is that we'll have some people check gallente ships out, and have a possible rise in gallente usage in PvP in WH's, but not much since they're still useless at PvE there, and then everyone will go back to ships that are actually useful, like minmatar...

-Arazel

Blasterships don't shine in small gang and you can get more out off some nano pests on top of this Rapier, they also work for solo reasonable well.

The vindicator is pretty much this what a working blaster mega should look like, it got a working web, enough cap, good speed and a damage advantage that you can actually play out reasonable well in real situations to make a reasonable choice compared to other options. Still you just see in high sec or over tanked, hugging a gate or a undock in low sec because the ship by no means justify his price with his ability's in the open as a straight gank machine like the mega did combined with the high risk this style involves.

What TQ lacks is the fluid blaster pvp, what is quick, aggressive and effective enough to nail targets in open space(similar to what you can see for frigs or kitting ships). This can't be archived by nerfing minmatar, amarr or whatever people complain about today. CCP should have addressed exactly this(for both gallente and caldari) and fixing the hole thing back into a working shape instead adding 5% here and there.