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Blood raider rats should not have TD
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Ozzymandias Duskwalker
Spartan Vanguard
#1 - 2014-06-21 08:09:16 UTC
Tracking disruption on rats that already neut, web and scramble you is overkill in my opinion and should be removed. what is next? sentry drones? Jamming?

SSTC, flying moas before they were cool.

SSTC is now recruiting! we have lvl 5 mission fleets, incursion fleets, mining fleets, camping fleets, lolfleets, whyisthisguyfcing? fleets, 'zzZzZZzzzz' fleets (POS and POCO bashing) and exploration fleets!.
0rch1d
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#2 - 2014-06-21 12:22:50 UTC
I don't mind a challenging AI (if it can even be called that.)

PvE is already brutally easy as it is.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-06-21 21:41:06 UTC
0rch1d wrote:
I don't mind a challenging AI (if it can even be called that.)

PvE is already brutally easy as it is.

This^

All factions web and scramble. Each faction has its own form of additional EWAR. The Blood Raider faction is no different.

NPC EWAR is weak on most missions and there are ways to counter it. Missions can be mind numbingly boring so a little EWAR makes things interesting.
0rch1d
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#4 - 2014-06-21 22:04:54 UTC
At least from my own perspective, achieving the correct range eliminates most - if not all - EWAR complaints.

Depends on how you like to mission, but you can always fit an MJD, and as soon as you warp in, align away from the rats (upward tends to be useful, if you warp into the middle of them), and then punch the MJD. This takes no time at all. Not much can touch you 120km out, and with sebos + range script you can up the range. You can kill things way the hell out and not even get a scratch.

Using a missile boat like a CNR (or even a standard Raven fit properly) is how you easyboat missions. Range will always save your ass.
Ozzymandias Duskwalker
Spartan Vanguard
#5 - 2014-06-22 05:40:57 UTC
Ah I failed to mention I'm talking mostly about blood raider signatures in low sec and null sec. Obviously missions are nothing to complain about but the exploration sites are brutal, trust me.

SSTC, flying moas before they were cool.

SSTC is now recruiting! we have lvl 5 mission fleets, incursion fleets, mining fleets, camping fleets, lolfleets, whyisthisguyfcing? fleets, 'zzZzZZzzzz' fleets (POS and POCO bashing) and exploration fleets!.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-06-22 05:42:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Or move to Minimatar Space and fight Angels and the occasional Serpentis. Angels have sucky EWAR you can mostly ignore it.

EDIT: missed the post about exploration sites :D
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2014-06-22 05:51:20 UTC
Ozzymandias Duskwalker wrote:
Ah I failed to mention I'm talking mostly about blood raider signatures in low sec and null sec. Obviously missions are nothing to complain about but the exploration sites are brutal, trust me.


Did a Minor Annex eat you alive? Don't do that one.

Otherwise there's really very little tracking disruption. Powergrid, I guess, but beyond that.... Certainly not an issue in rated sites.
Ozzymandias Duskwalker
Spartan Vanguard
#8 - 2014-06-22 06:01:33 UTC
try doing the 3/10 Blood raider DED. The TD isn't terrible in it. It's just that there are about 30 TD frigates in each of the 5 rooms, there are basically only two ways to do a blood raider site safely: Passive tanked like a boss or kiting at decent distances away from neutralizer range. all of this while using non-turret weaponry.


So yeah you'd have to use Tengu or Gila. Maybe Ishtar. don't you think that's a bit restrictive? Id like to be able to use a beam legion for example or a rail Proteus. That way i stay out of neut range and still use guns. But nope, Tracking disruption pretty much makes it impossible.

SSTC, flying moas before they were cool.

SSTC is now recruiting! we have lvl 5 mission fleets, incursion fleets, mining fleets, camping fleets, lolfleets, whyisthisguyfcing? fleets, 'zzZzZZzzzz' fleets (POS and POCO bashing) and exploration fleets!.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#9 - 2014-06-22 06:28:17 UTC
Ozzymandias Duskwalker wrote:
try doing the 3/10 Blood raider DED. The TD isn't terrible in it. It's just that there are about 30 TD frigates in each of the 5 rooms, there are basically only two ways to do a blood raider site safely: Passive tanked like a boss or kiting at decent distances away from neutralizer range. all of this while using non-turret weaponry.


So yeah you'd have to use Tengu or Gila. Maybe Ishtar. don't you think that's a bit restrictive? Id like to be able to use a beam legion for example or a rail Proteus. That way i stay out of neut range and still use guns. But nope, Tracking disruption pretty much makes it impossible.


You can't get a T3 into a 3/10 anyhow. And seriously, the higher level rated sites don't have a serious TD problem.

Yes, there is significant TD in the 3/10. A Stratios also shreds it in no time flat. There are ways to handle it. I seriously don't think it's as big a problem as you're making it out to be.
Ozzymandias Duskwalker
Spartan Vanguard
#10 - 2014-06-22 06:42:20 UTC
I used a punisher with beams to beat the 3/10. easy as hell so I'm not making out to be impossible. I'm stating that in comparison to other rat types, Blood Raiders have too many tricks they can throw at you at higher levels of difficulty.

SSTC, flying moas before they were cool.

SSTC is now recruiting! we have lvl 5 mission fleets, incursion fleets, mining fleets, camping fleets, lolfleets, whyisthisguyfcing? fleets, 'zzZzZZzzzz' fleets (POS and POCO bashing) and exploration fleets!.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-06-22 13:48:06 UTC
All pirate factions have neut towers anyway, all factions web and scramble, meh.
Sarin Gaston
Free Stone Enterprises
#12 - 2014-06-23 09:41:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarin Gaston
Blood raiders and sansha are quite possibly the easiest rats to contend with aside from Angels painting you. Now Guristas annoy the hell out of me because jamming you seems to have no range and they have godly missile flight times so even if you're 150km away they will still touch you dirty :D
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-06-23 11:19:16 UTC
if only tracking disruptors on blood raiders were the only problem with pve in eve...

I should buy an Ishtar.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#14 - 2014-06-23 14:03:33 UTC
Ozzymandias Duskwalker wrote:
Tracking disruption on rats that already neut, web and scramble you is overkill in my opinion and should be removed. what is next? sentry drones? Jamming?


Blood Raiders have TD for the exact same reason Sanshas do: TD is the racial EWAR for Amarr , Sansha and BRs are Amarr pirates. The neuting that Bloods do (and neuting is NOT EWAR) is basically for lore continuity reasons and to make them different from sansha. Blood Raiders don't Tracking Disrupt near as much as sanshas do, and neuts are very short ranged thus easy to deal wtih.

I've completed every single Blood Raider Complex solo despite the neuts and AI switching (dual XLASB Vargur can do the Blood 10/10), without the neuts, blood complexes would be the same kind of crap as all the others ie way to easy.
Chenguang Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-06-23 14:58:50 UTC
Guristas got permajam.
Why Bloods shouldn't have something as powerful as permajam?
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#16 - 2014-06-23 20:36:18 UTC
Technically, Blood Raider neuts (well, NOS with neut-like properties) are not EWAR. So, Blood Raiders use no more methods of EWAR than any other rat type, save for Rogue Drones.

More to the underlining point the OP is trying to convey, while Blood Raiders still have both tracking disruption AND Neuts, their neuts are really no less an obstacle than say Angel Cartel's lower sig and higher speed or Gurista's ability to apply nearly all of their dps regardless of range. I still think Gurista's are much more anoying and, I dare say, even threatening with their EWAR than any other rat type.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
That Forum Belike
#17 - 2014-06-23 23:47:40 UTC
Them bloods ain't no joke homie. Best come strapped if you tryin' to claim they cornbread.
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-06-24 12:51:49 UTC
Ozzymandias Duskwalker wrote:
what is next? sentry drones? Jamming?


Clearly you've never been to Gurista space.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-06-24 13:20:32 UTC
use a td immune weapons system?
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-06-24 21:54:45 UTC
TD is really frustrating, but without it the missions would become even easier than they already are...
One pirate faction that needs fixing is Angel Cartel who uses Target Painters that does absolutely nothing.
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