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Proposal: Level 6 Skillbooks
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Simc0m
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-05 16:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Simc0m
The idea is very simple:

Each skill will now be trainable to level 6.
To train a skill to level 6 a specific skillbook will need to be acquired. ie "Minmatar Cruiser Level 6"
Level 6 skillbooks are only available for purchase from NPC stations (ISK sink)
Level 6 skillbooks are expensive, approximately 10x the cost of the base skillbook.
Level 6 follows the exact same progression in SP as the other levels (each level is 5.65x the SP of the level below)
Therefore Level 6 is extremely time intensive to train (as you can see below):

SP (1x) multiplier:
* level 1 - 250
* level 2 - 1414
* level 3 - 8000
* level 4 - 45255
* level 5 - 256000
* level 6 - 1447936

Level 6 will:
Be a HUGE isk sink (something that is desperately needed currently)
Reward player dedication.
Give incentive to specialization.
Add excitement for veteran players.

Additional thoughts:
Want to spice up low sec? - make level 6 skillbooks only available at specific NPC stations in lowsec ("Minmatar cruiser 6" in lowsec minmatar space for example) Enterprising individuals can run LVL6 books to highsec for profit.

What do you think?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2011-12-05 18:48:34 UTC
No. All you're doing is trying to widen the gap between older characters and younger characters. The skills in Eve already work perfectly well as-is. If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it.
Simc0m
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-12-05 20:29:00 UTC
mxzf wrote:
No. All you're doing is trying to widen the gap between older characters and younger characters. The skills in Eve already work perfectly well as-is. If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it.


I couldn't disagree more. Old characters have nothing useful left to train, that is the problem. The same system has been in place for nearly 10 years and is in need of some useful additions.
Taint
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-12-05 20:29:36 UTC
mxzf wrote:
No. All you're doing is trying to widen the gap between older characters and younger characters. The skills in Eve already work perfectly well as-is. If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it.

This
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#5 - 2011-12-05 20:44:53 UTC
Simc0m wrote:
mxzf wrote:
No. All you're doing is trying to widen the gap between older characters and younger characters. The skills in Eve already work perfectly well as-is. If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it.


I couldn't disagree more. Old characters have nothing useful left to train, that is the problem. The same system has been in place for nearly 10 years and is in need of some useful additions.


lol, old players ALWAYS have something useful left to train. There are no characters in Eve that have trained all skills in the game to 5, the game hasn't existed long enough for that to happen.
Simc0m
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-12-05 20:54:51 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Simc0m wrote:
mxzf wrote:
No. All you're doing is trying to widen the gap between older characters and younger characters. The skills in Eve already work perfectly well as-is. If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it.


I couldn't disagree more. Old characters have nothing useful left to train, that is the problem. The same system has been in place for nearly 10 years and is in need of some useful additions.


lol, old players ALWAYS have something useful left to train. There are no characters in Eve that have trained all skills in the game to 5, the game hasn't existed long enough for that to happen.


Of course they have SOMETHING left to train but do they have anything USEFUL left to train, something their character actually will benefit from? Most old players are dropping dumb **** that they don't care about into their queue, just because they have nothing better to train. Why not let those players drop ten million skillpoints into a level 6 skill? Whether you like to admit it or not, this is one reason why bittervets quit the game - they feel that their character is no longer progressing towards any meaningful goal.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#7 - 2011-12-05 22:27:22 UTC
I don't really see a problem with this. A really really long time for +5% damage? That would break the game? i don't think it would really. I doubt it'd put the veterans ahead of the new guys. Afterall... its 5% of whatever.
Xenial Jesse Taalo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-12-05 22:56:33 UTC
It wouldn't increase the gap between old and new anyway, it would decrease it.

But I'm not a fan of the idea. Basically level 6 skills would just represent new, much, much larger amounts of time that the player doesn't get to manipulate their game. For the problem posed in the OP, this is not a fun solution.

Also the rewards wouldn't be worth it. Again, for the problem posed in the OP, this wouldn't be a satisfying solution I think.

While it wouldn't damage the current skills balance really, completionists out there would be screwing themselves over. Level 5 is a level of patience the community accepts. Level 6 isn't worth it.

It wouldn't really hurt the game, I just don't think there's a lot of positive in the idea and I feel for the completionists. It's better to seek other solutions for the OP's problem.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#9 - 2011-12-05 23:11:10 UTC
Well...

You could have a skill that gives 1% extra per level... Call it Tech II skill... *runs for cover*
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#10 - 2011-12-06 00:09:17 UTC
Simc0m wrote:


Additional thoughts:
Want to spice up low sec? - make level 6 skillbooks only available at specific NPC stations in lowsec ("Minmatar cruiser 6" in lowsec minmatar space for example) Enterprising individuals can run LVL6 books to highsec for profit.

What do you think?


Relevant part emphasised.

Oh look, how precious:

One of the dregs of EVE looking for free easy ganks.

No. Get out.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Simc0m
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-12-06 01:14:11 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Simc0m wrote:


Additional thoughts:
Want to spice up low sec? - make level 6 skillbooks only available at specific NPC stations in lowsec ("Minmatar cruiser 6" in lowsec minmatar space for example) Enterprising individuals can run LVL6 books to highsec for profit.

What do you think?


Relevant part emphasised.

Oh look, how precious:

One of the dregs of EVE looking for free easy ganks.

No. Get out.


Your comment suggests I possess at least some basal level of pvp competence, which clearly - I do not.
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#12 - 2011-12-06 01:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bearilian
Xenial Jesse Taalo wrote:


While it wouldn't damage the current skills balance really, completionists out there would be screwing themselves over. Level 5 is a level of patience the community accepts. Level 6 isn't worth it.


when i catch comments like this I just like to point out that "its in the eye of the beholder". do you remember what it was like when you realized you might have to wait a month for a lvl 5 of a skill? years ago when i saw this the first time, in my opinion, was not acceptable. so all i'm sayin is after a while people would not mind (as much), as when it was first implemented.

that being said, I'm neutral. always for game expansion and development, but maybe it should only be put into some skillsets and not all.
and...
Morgan North wrote:

Well...

You could have a skill that gives 1% extra per level... Call it Tech II skill... *runs for cover*

lol, yes. points for boldness!! (could eve ever be to confusing?)
Goose99
#13 - 2011-12-06 01:39:59 UTC
Simc0m wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Simc0m wrote:
mxzf wrote:
No. All you're doing is trying to widen the gap between older characters and younger characters. The skills in Eve already work perfectly well as-is. If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it.


I couldn't disagree more. Old characters have nothing useful left to train, that is the problem. The same system has been in place for nearly 10 years and is in need of some useful additions.


lol, old players ALWAYS have something useful left to train. There are no characters in Eve that have trained all skills in the game to 5, the game hasn't existed long enough for that to happen.


Of course they have SOMETHING left to train but do they have anything USEFUL left to train, something their character actually will benefit from? Most old players are dropping dumb **** that they don't care about into their queue, just because they have nothing better to train. Why not let those players drop ten million skillpoints into a level 6 skill? Whether you like to admit it or not, this is one reason why bittervets quit the game - they feel that their character is no longer progressing towards any meaningful goal.


-Get into industry
-Start an alt
-leave queue blank
Simc0m
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-12-06 01:50:04 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Simc0m wrote:
[quote=mxzf][quote=Simc0m]

Of course they have SOMETHING left to train but do they have anything USEFUL left to train, something their character actually will benefit from? Most old players are dropping dumb **** that they don't care about into their queue, just because they have nothing better to train. Why not let those players drop ten million skillpoints into a level 6 skill? Whether you like to admit it or not, this is one reason why bittervets quit the game - they feel that their character is no longer progressing towards any meaningful goal.


-Get into industry
-Start an alt
-leave queue blank


Someone gets it! Thanks so much for so clearly showing everyone the wall vets hit after a certain point, and the ridiculously lame options they are left with when they have nothing useful left to add to their queue. I especially like the option to leave the queue blank. You could have also put "-unsubscribe" in there as well.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-12-06 04:01:20 UTC
Start doing PVP using t3 ships.... i bet you will have to train allot every time your ship is destroyed!

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#16 - 2011-12-06 06:41:51 UTC
this would bypass implants. Fitting comes to mind right away. tired of losing those 3%'s? train level 6. Pita train granted but once done...never need to buy a 3% ever again.

Only downside I see...but hell why not. Bitter vet when this train looks reasonable has probably lost his fair share of implants.


One could say train blah blah. Bitter vet more than likely has an indy alt or had one and sold it when burned out on it. wtf would they train the main for it as well. Just jaded vet at 2.5 years...and some days my indy alt is looking like a good thing to sell off since I have mild indy burnout (he's even minmatar, fitting lol).

As I hit the bigger ships I have set for goals...black ops and caps....if still playing 2 years from now, these will be the end of the line for a while. No desire for mommies and titans. Not nerf rage....never wanted them to start with. Be nice at that 2 year mark I could say well lets pimp a skill I have. Not a great divide from noobs really. I do an acceleration control 6...its not exactly snake like speed lol.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-12-06 07:21:37 UTC
No, not supported. This will indeed widen the gap between older and newer players, because it's just one more enormous length of time you have to train to max out a ship/weapon/ect.

If you really have nothing relevant left to train (like 150mill sp), then be thankful you can fly every ship perfectly. Or we can swap accounts and you can have plenty to train.

New people are what keeps this game going and it's the already stupidly long training times for skills (seriously, you cant even max out a bc with support skills in a year) which drive people out of what is supposed to be a game.

If this game is going to survive, the gap between older and newer players must be shortened, not widened, or your just going to drive more and more people away when they find out just how long it takes to get into ships.

Before you all cry that's what the game is supposed to do, patience ect, I get it, but it needs to be bought back a notch.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Rina Asanari
CitadeI
#18 - 2011-12-06 07:25:49 UTC
I can't imagine that there isn't anything useful to be trained just after ten years, if "all level V" would take much longer than twenty years on perfect conditions.

By the way, going further with your suggestion, I'd be just waiting for someone to suggest Level 7? Why not removing the upper limit altogether then and make it just to be the amount of time someone wants to invest in a particular skill?

So... No.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-12-06 08:02:22 UTC
Rina Asanari wrote:
I can't imagine that there isn't anything useful to be trained just after ten years, if "all level V" would take much longer than twenty years on perfect conditions.

By the way, going further with your suggestion, I'd be just waiting for someone to suggest Level 7? Why not removing the upper limit altogether then and make it just to be the amount of time someone wants to invest in a particular skill?

So... No.

sure. just make sure you make it exponential after level 5. so level 6 of an X1 skill would be 65536000000 level 7? 4294967296000000000000. you want 20% better drone damage? sure, go ahead, go train for the next few centuries.
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#20 - 2011-12-06 13:21:17 UTC
Are you serious?

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka
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