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Boost for new players - 900k SP on first char at start
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Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#21 - 2014-06-19 20:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Ko Kury Naki wrote:

Let say I'm your RL friend.
Let say you want me to play EvE Online with you.
Let say I'm starting Trial Account having your invitation.

Please describe next week of playing EvE with me. Please describe fun you have and I have.

I invited couple of friends, so remember well what they were complaining about.
I rolled this char to test myself if they are right ...

They were right, but does it matter ?
They don't decided to play EvE.
"This is boring game, we can't do anything funny" they said ...


Easy, I have no problems tuning down, I have fun playing independent of stats, I love roleplaying and have no issues with adjusting my style to the weaker or less skilled. I explore with new players, not for them. Its your problem if you can't or if have
friends that don't.

Like I said, an issue with something else, not the system.

The last time I met a new player he was 3 days old and roamed low sec, so I joined him in a frig ... and we had both fun. But yeah, can't play with 90k SP pvp ... or anything else beside that ....
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-06-19 20:01:27 UTC
Ko Kury Naki wrote:
Basic destroyer fit for ganker now is achievable in around 8 hours.


For real? What go you plan to gank with that, Ventures?

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Ko Kury Naki
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-06-19 20:25:03 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Ko Kury Naki wrote:
Basic destroyer fit for ganker now is achievable in around 8 hours.


For real? What go you plan to gank with that, Ventures?


Have you any other fit in your mind ? Cheap, disposal ganker fit ?
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-06-19 22:04:25 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Ko Kury Naki wrote:
Basic destroyer fit for ganker now is achievable in around 8 hours.


For real? What go you plan to gank with that, Ventures?


Take 10 alts in gank fit catalysts and you'll take out allsorts.

Hell I know a guy who killed a rohk as part of a battle venture group. Never underestimate the power of a small ship swarm.
Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
#25 - 2014-06-19 23:10:54 UTC
900k SP is a lot, it's worth around 20 days of training without a cerebral acceleration booster.
I've been playing since late 2011 too, running 4 accounts and I'm spending almost all my time in the Rookie Help Channel, and I know this will not work well for new players.
Clearly you have not done the tutorials or career agents in a long time, because:
Quote:
1. You cannot jump and do any missions, you must waste couple of days to train skills which should be BASIC PvE skillset.

The Military and Advanced Military careers gives you the most neccesary combat skillbooks for guns, such as Sharpshooting and Rapid Firing, plus gives you a good start experience. Plus the Sisters of EVE Epic Arc is doable right after you finish off these 2 career agents, except for 2-3 missions out of 50 where you might need fitting advice or help from another person, which is not a bad thing. I recently started a 21 day trial because my other accounts were inactive. Within day 5, I could run L2 missions after soloing all of the Sisters of EVE Epic Arc, except for 1 mission. Yes, I know experience comes into play, but skills are clearly not an issue.

Quote:
2. You cannot do any PvP - you have no tank and no gank - nothing to support that activity.

Brave Newbies might want a word with you. A new player can always do something, from being the annoying tackler to a scout or another small DPS. Factional Warfare is also a great start for a new player to learn the ropes, try some solo PvP or finding a New Player Friendly PvP/FW Corp like Red vs Blue and Brave Newbies.

Quote:
3. You cannot perform any mining operation - you cannot pilot necessary BASIC MINING ship, nor use a basic mining equipment.

The Industry career gives you a free Venture and the skillbook to operate it. That's 15 minutes of training and you're already set for a good start. Fear of gankers or other somehow losing that Venture? Business gives another free Venture too (without the skillbook though) and those 2 careers gives enough ISK for at least 2-3 more Ventures. Mining Laser Upgrade skillbook is cheap and sold in the rookie systems, and the module itself is cheap too.

Quote:
4. You cannot try any industrial activity, nor PI, nor BASIC PRODUCTION, simply again - you don't have a BASIC INDUSTRIAL skills.

The Industry skill is given in the Industry career too, which is all you need for basic production. Of course you will have a lot of waste due to not having trained Material Efficiency, but that's a small goal to set.
PI can be done with 8 minutes of training and a guide. Granted you need to buy the skillbook Remote Sensing and find a guide to how PI works, but then you can have a chance to know how PI is working before going full on it, because it is not easy right of the bat!

Plus the Rookie Help Channel is always there for great availability where getting an answer is really likely, or private convos to help out even better along with all the new player friendly corporations.

And no, all these things metioned, a new player can not do them efficiently, but should they be able to?
EVE is a complex game, and if they are throw right in it and can do everything efficiently from the start, it would be chaos and would only benefit veteran players making a new alt.

My suggestion for you: Create a new account and focus on the Rookie Help Channel, see how new people do in there, which questions pop up (maybe help too if you want), and don't focus on how well you can do different roles. A new player has to focus his/her path to get among the higher skilled players.

-1, Not supported
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#26 - 2014-06-19 23:39:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Discomanco wrote:
....
Quote:
2. You cannot do any PvP - you have no tank and no gank - nothing to support that activity.

Brave Newbies might want a word with you. A new player can always do something, from being the annoying tackler to a scout or another small DPS. Factional Warfare is also a great start for a new player to learn the ropes, try some solo PvP or finding a New Player Friendly PvP/FW Corp like Red vs Blue and Brave Newbies....

-1, Not supported


This ! Besides all the other valid points

My FW toon is about 9 months old and has exactly 0 days, 0 hours 0minutes and 0 seconds trained in skills after all that time making isk with running small and novice pockets (and the odd medium). I am just running the basic 90k SP char (or what it is) and fly a fast t1 frig. My weapon and defense: D-Scan.

Yeah, no skill = no nothing. Hm wondering what skills we are actually talking about.

The issue are not the skills, its getting them and your attitude of 'can't do this till.. ', 'can't do that till...' and 'if I can't do these, then 0 fun' ... 'edit the game so I can have fun - and don't make me do anything' As I said, your issues are with your view, the grass on the other side.... the same old story.
Ko Kury Naki
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-06-20 00:13:38 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:

My FW toon is about 9 months old and has exactly 0 days, 0 hours 0minutes and 0 seconds trained in skills after all that time making isk with running small and novice pockets (and the odd medium). I am just running the basic 90k SP char (or what it is) and fly a fast t1 frig. My weapon and defense: D-Scan.

Yeah, no skill = no nothing. Hm wondering what skills we are actually talking about.

The issue are not the skills, ...


Well, but you must admit - that is NOT an PVP, thats just hanging in space for some time and running away from any PVP.
It's exectly because lack of necessary skills to even try some combat.
You earn money not because you are properly equiped (skills+gear) but because some kind of mechanics abuse.

Besides of that, a lot of people hate such LP farmers because they avoid PVP and that hurts their experience.
If you are in FW zone you should fight :)

I know what is possible in FW area, joined for couple of months, helped a friend to start new char.
He survived 2 months and told "thats boring, I must run all the time, or when I want fight they run. If dont thats because they have better gear and can easily kill me".

There is a lot more activity you can do with bare unskilled char. I earned 1.5b on trial account before it expired.
Does this proof I'm wrong with my suggestion ?
I don't think so.

Why people deny a chance of good start for new players ?
How does it hurt any of you to have a friend piloting starter char with some gear available ?

I can understand raw arguments posted already regarding possible abuse, but all other are not convincing.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#28 - 2014-06-20 00:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Ko Kury Naki wrote:


Well, but you must admit - that is NOT an PVP, thats just hanging in space for some time and running away from any PVP.
It's exectly because lack of necessary skills to even try some combat.
You earn money not because you are properly equiped (skills+gear) but because some kind of mechanics abuse.

Besides of that, a lot of people hate such LP farmers because they avoid PVP and that hurts their experience.
If you are in FW zone you should fight :)

I know what is possible in FW area, joined for couple of months, helped a friend to start new char.
He survived 2 months and told "thats boring, I must run all the time, or when I want fight they run. If dont thats because they have better gear and can easily kill me".

There is a lot more activity you can do with bare unskilled char. I earned 1.5b on trial account before it expired.
Does this proof I'm wrong with my suggestion ?
I don't think so.

Why people deny a chance of good start for new players ?
How does it hurt any of you to have a friend piloting starter char with some gear available ?

I can understand raw arguments posted already regarding possible abuse, but all other are not convincing.


PvP is what you make it, doesn't have to be active pewpew with explosions, its outsmarting the other player with all means available, if you are just relying on ingame trained skills, that's your personal problem.

And I am so sorry not to skill up and invest ISK to fly a proper ship for someone else's killmail. And that I abuse proper use of d-scan not to be blown up by neutrals who outnumber most FW players and prey on calculated easy kills.

And I am sorry, that my standard of fun, excitement and entertainment doesn't met up with yours.

I wish I could conform and be so boring and unimaginative and unmotivated without proper numbers.



.... NOT

And a good start is what you make it. Two equally equipped, trained, educated and the same handicap can have a totally different start at the same activity depending on their mood, expectations and relations. Yet you treat everyone like the same casual and bored out (and probably catered to) gamer you seem to be.
Ko Kury Naki
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-06-20 00:45:11 UTC
Discomanco wrote:

Clearly you have not done the tutorials or career agents in a long time, [...]

Trust me, I did them many times, for various reason. Last time was when this char was born.
I know all these missions and they are very flawed, confusing and not so much usefull for newbie.
I completed a big pile of useless skillbooks given during that mission.

Discomanco:
... because:
The Military and Advanced Military careers gives you the most neccesary combat skillbooks for guns, such as Sharpshooting and Rapid Firing, plus gives you a good start experience.

They for example doesn't warn you that as Amarr you shouldn't train Rapid Firing before/without Controlled Bursts.
Low SP chars are especially fragile to lack of capacitor and solving that problem in a frigate or destroyer hull is a bit tricky.
One way is just avoid some skills too early.

Discomanco wrote:

Factional Warfare is also a great start for a new player to learn the ropes, try some solo PvP [...]

Solo PvP almost doesn't exist in FW. It's rare in other areas but mostly reserved/performed by experienced players.
I wonder why ...

Discomanco wrote:

The Industry career gives you a free Venture and the skillbook to operate it. That's 15 minutes of training and you're already set for a good start. Fear of gankers or other somehow losing that Venture? Business gives another free Venture too (without the skillbook though) and those 2 careers gives enough ISK for at least 2-3 more Ventures. Mining Laser Upgrade skillbook is cheap and sold in the rookie systems, and the module itself is cheap too.

:) I know, do you want few Ventures for free ?
I think that it's good point to start change. Maybe it would be good to merge missions and free SP ?

Discomanco wrote:

The Industry skill is given in the Industry career too, which is all you need for basic production.

Indeed. Very, very basic.

Discomanco:
PI can be done with 8 minutes of training and a guide.

I assume you are aware that for PI that makes sense you must have much higher skills in hat area plus an hauler ?
Why a newbie couldnt try it right from the box ?

Discomanco:
Plus the Rookie Help Channel is always there for great availability where getting an answer is really likely, or private convos to help out even better along with all the new player friendly corporations.

I know that. I think it's one of the most valuable things in EvE.

Discomanco:
And no, all these things metioned, a new player can not do them efficiently, but should they be able to?

Well, question is : WHY THEY SHOULDN'T ?

Discomanco:
> EVE is a complex game, and if they are throw right in it and can do everything efficiently from the start,
> it would be chaos and would only benefit veteran players making a new alt.

So veteran players will start perform some veteran activity ...

Discomanco:
> My suggestion for you: Create a new account and focus on the Rookie Help Channel, see how new people do in there, which
> questions pop up (maybe help too if you want), and don't focus on how well you can do different roles. A new player has to
> focus his/her path to get among the higher skilled players.

Dude, yet another one ? :) This one is like 3 weeks old.
I hanged on RH channel answering sometimes. I'll try to spend there 1 day and just listen what they ask or maybe I'll just read logs of that
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#30 - 2014-06-20 00:47:00 UTC
Starter packs.....

That cerebral accelerator will give you 1 mil SP in your first week, without remapping or +3's. The starter packs go on sale for 5 bucks every other week or so on either amazon, gamersgate, green man gaming, steam, or wherever else they can be found.. I was actually dumbfounded to see that it's only at 10 bucks during the steam summer sale, but maybe they're planning on dropping it lower during one of the daily deals or a flash sale.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#31 - 2014-06-20 07:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Quote:
Indeed. Very, very basic.


Yes, very very basic. I get the feeling that you want new players to be able to do stuff efficiently without training for it. Forget that right away. Doing things even remotely efficiently requires training and ought to always require training. Doing it inefficiently to see if you could possibly come to like this or that is enough.

If new players come in and expect to do things efficiently without any training, they are not fit for EVE anyways and should leave after the trail.

Quote:
I assume you are aware that for PI that makes sense you must have much higher skills in hat area plus an hauler ?
Why a newbie couldnt try it right from the box ?


Why should they be able to do that? EVE gives almost nothing "right from the box". If you want to do things, you have to learn to do them - both with prior skill point training as well as external help mediums and, as soon as you have the skill points, learning by doing. That is the basic principle of EVE. Making new players get to learn a different game (I get a lot free stuff in the beginning), they get to know a completely different game and only learn through frustration later on, that nothing is given out for free after their first day.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#32 - 2014-06-20 08:54:06 UTC
Ko Kury Naki wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:

imagine the thousands of throw away bot ratting ravens turning up in nullsec on trail accounts, which just send the isk to a toon a few mins before the account expires and and ejects the ship in a pos for the replacement char to use.

Looks really great.
1. Someone must produce these thousands of hulls and fit for them, someone must mine materials for that, someone must transport and sell them.
I see this as great economy boost.
2. If they are in null then someone will hunt them - more pvp even for rookies as these bots will not defend too strongly.
Just another kind of NPC to kill. After killing them they must buy a new ship ... so again an economy boost.
I think many players will find it funny to board few interceptors and make a raid to hunt these Ravens.
More fun for all but these poor bot drivers :)


I find your flippant and causal support of botting disturbing intended or not. Have you ever hunted bots? It isn't as straight forward as you imply, first sign of a red or neut in local and they go to ground. Nothing that makes botting easier should be tolerated....ever.

Do we really need better skilled and instant cyno alts, scout alts, FW farming alts and gank alts when they can all be created fairly rapidly anyway?

Better to seek improvements to the New Player Experience enabling those joining EvE to make better and more informed choices.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
#33 - 2014-06-20 09:16:00 UTC
Quote:
Trust me, I did them many times, for various reason. Last time was when this char was born.
I know all these missions and they are very flawed, confusing and not so much usefull for newbie.
I completed a big pile of useless skillbooks given during that mission.

I don't know if you watched the NPE section at Fanfest, but they are working on that.
Quote:

Discomanco:
... because:
The Military and Advanced Military careers gives you the most neccesary combat skillbooks for guns, such as Sharpshooting and Rapid Firing, plus gives you a good start experience.

They for example doesn't warn you that as Amarr you shouldn't train Rapid Firing before/without Controlled Bursts.
Low SP chars are especially fragile to lack of capacitor and solving that problem in a frigate or destroyer hull is a bit tricky.
One way is just avoid some skills too early.

With the right fitting, which can be trained into in 10-12 hours (+ destroyer skill), you can easily get a decent tanked destroyer that's cap stable without the repair mod. A Destroyer even with 100k SP is enough to steamroll level 1 missions and do most of L2 missions

Quote:

Factional Warfare is also a great start for a new player to learn the ropes, try some solo PvP [...]

Solo PvP almost doesn't exist in FW. It's rare in other areas but mostly reserved/performed by experienced players.
I wonder why ...
And how will higher skillcap resolve that I wonder? You don't get PVP/fitting experience by starting at 900k SP

Quote:

The Industry career gives you a free Venture and the skillbook to operate it. That's 15 minutes of training and you're already set for a good start. Fear of gankers or other somehow losing that Venture? Business gives another free Venture too (without the skillbook though) and those 2 careers gives enough ISK for at least 2-3 more Ventures. Mining Laser Upgrade skillbook is cheap and sold in the rookie systems, and the module itself is cheap too.

:) I know, do you want few Ventures for free ?
I think that it's good point to start change. Maybe it would be good to merge missions and free SP ?

Well what do you expect to gain from the start? A mining barge? So that the first goal is 40 days of training for an Exhumer?
Or should we just go back to bad racial mining frigates?
Merging missions and giving free SP would just lead to people doing all careers in all 12 systems to gain a good SP headstart.

Quote:

The Industry skill is given in the Industry career too, which is all you need for basic production.
[/i]
Indeed. Very, very basic.

And why should you not start at basic?

Discomanco:
PI can be done with 8 minutes of training and a guide.

I assume you are aware that for PI that makes sense you must have much higher skills in hat area plus an hauler ?
Why a newbie couldnt try it right from the box ?

You can get a small passive income from even 1 planet with harvesters, and is more really required for a new toon? A hauler is Gallente Industrial L1 for an Epithal that has a 49k m3 PI Hold (ofc that requires a full account, which is the only issue I see). How will starting with Remote Sensing 1 change anything, other than raising loads of questions about what it's for?


Discomanco:
Plus the Rookie Help Channel is always there for great availability where getting an answer is really likely, or private convos to help out even better along with all the new player friendly corporations.

I know that. I think it's one of the most valuable things in EvE.

Discomanco:
And no, all these things metioned, a new player can not do them efficiently, but should they be able to?

Well, question is : WHY THEY SHOULDN'T ?

To not overwhelm new players? Taking things slowly is clearly working out well enough, seeing how many has problems finish even the most simple tasks such as finding their first rookie ship at the first mission



Discomanco:
> EVE is a complex game, and if they are throw right in it and can do everything efficiently from the start,
> it would be chaos and would only benefit veteran players making a new alt.

So veteran players will start perform some veteran activity ...

And why should veteran players making a new alt gain 20 days headstart from people who just started?


Discomanco:
> My suggestion for you: Create a new account and focus on the Rookie Help Channel, see how new people do in there, which
> questions pop up (maybe help too if you want), and don't focus on how well you can do different roles. A new player has to
> focus his/her path to get among the higher skilled players.

Dude, yet another one ? :) This one is like 3 weeks old.
I hanged on RH channel answering sometimes. I'll try to spend there 1 day and just listen what they ask or maybe I'll just read logs of that

Good, then you know how new EVE players has a lot of problems understanding even the very basics.
So far, I've been in there for 6 months, actively helping.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2014-06-20 09:20:41 UTC
I understand your point. The problem with new players that is MUCH different than old players running new accounts for gank/scout whatever is that new player wants to see and explore what he can do and not be boxed into a singular specialized role that he can do (badly) with his skill points.

The biggest problem I see is the whatever skill set you chose you will be punished. U can:

1) Train ship/weapons - but you want be able to fit them or use proper tank/tackle modules.

2) Train fitting skills - most advisable, but fitting skills alone don't let you fly anything.

3) Train cybernetics (was it the name?) - it speeds up you future skilling, but again does not let you do anything on it's own.

So yes I agree to more sp for new players. When choosing his academy at character creation screen pilot should be given all basic and support skills at 4 for that career. I.e. caldari military pilot should have light missiles to 4, caldari frigate to 4, and fitting skills to 4. If it's to high make it 3...

Bottom line is: don't let new players sit on their a*s for couple of days before the game becomes fun. Chance is they will quit EVE before trial even finishes.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#35 - 2014-06-20 09:40:51 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Candy Man


And then they realize that they need to train after all and that there are no more presents after they've been given quite a huge candy bar at the beginning. More over, you can only retain 900k Skill points in your Alpha Clone. With all these skills at a higher level, you would exceed that limit and in case of a pod loss lose skill points and had to pay for the Beta clone right at the first day. Sounds to me like a bad deal; especially for the Angry Birds type of players, who are used to constant gifts and not just one gift and then hard work. In EVE, you either start off with hard work right from the beginning or you leave. This safes you and the rest of the community a lot of frustration and ridiculing forum posts.

Also, this would allow alts/toons to start off right away to fight against newbs with minimal effort, but their vast advantage of knowledge. That puts newbs at an even bigger disadvantage than the currently limited fitting and activity opportunities.

You also don't sit around idle and busy doing nothing at all in the first days. As a true newb, you are overwhelmed with the tutorials and trying to learn the game's basic basics. That keeps you busy while you train up your skills. If you aren't the tutorial player kind of newb, you (most likely) don't care about lack of skills anyways as you want to experience a challenge. Taking this challenge away from this kind of players, can be considered a major downer for them.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-06-20 09:42:06 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
I understand your point. The problem with new players that is MUCH different than old players running new accounts for gank/scout whatever is that new player wants to see and explore what he can do and not be boxed into a singular specialized role that he can do (badly) with his skill points.

The biggest problem I see is the whatever skill set you chose you will be punished. U can:

1) Train ship/weapons - but you want be able to fit them or use proper tank/tackle modules.

2) Train fitting skills - most advisable, but fitting skills alone don't let you fly anything.

3) Train cybernetics (was it the name?) - it speeds up you future skilling, but again does not let you do anything on it's own.

So yes I agree to more sp for new players. When choosing his academy at character creation screen pilot should be given all basic and support skills at 4 for that career. I.e. caldari military pilot should have light missiles to 4, caldari frigate to 4, and fitting skills to 4. If it's to high make it 3...

Bottom line is: don't let new players sit on their a*s for couple of days before the game becomes fun. Chance is they will quit EVE before trial even finishes.


You can fit a t1 tackle frig easily within a day or two. Fitting skills are useless until the player actually starts to learn what they want to fly and the weapon system they want to train first. This takes days at least and during those days the new player is learning how to actually *use* the skills they are learning. They are also being introduced to the skill queue and the concept of the choices you make impacting your character permanently. as for training cybernetics why would you train above III to start with? A new char won't be able to afford +4 or +5 implants and don't even need implants until the new player booster thing runs out. They also wouldn't realize the importance of getting your pod out of harms way when your ship goes boom and would probably lose expensive implants in short order.

As a new player (not that long ago) I was running in level IV missions alongside a corpmate. I flew a basic T1 incursus and took out the frigs, destroyers and cruisers whilst drawing fire that could never hit me from the bigger ships. Once I got into the t1 algos (which I still fly now albeit with T2 drones and propulsion) within a week I was killing level II missions with relative ease.

It is not about the SP a player starts with, it is about the training tutorials and improving them to show new players *how* their fits affect their ships, show them what ganking is and how to avoid it (have them do recon whilst watching d-scan and GTFO when the combat probes show up or get hotdropped), explain about gate-camps and piracy (and yes that may well make some players think 'Cool, can I do that?').

Giving a new player a bunch of SP is pointless as they won't know what to put them into. Career prefit skill lists? Hoe does the new player know what they actually want to do? The career tutorials are htere for a reason, they simply need improving. The SP will come as the player learns how to use the new skills they acquire and they won't even realize how many they have until they need to clone upgrade (which needs to be in another tutorial).
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#37 - 2014-06-20 09:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Cassius Invictus wrote:
... The biggest problem I see is the whatever skill set you chose you will be punished....

Again the same issue over and over again, perception, you see it as punishment not having skills, I see it as a rewarding when I train for them.
And expectations, yes, expectations of what you should have, what should rightly be yours ... what the game owes you ...
... Really ?!


Your issues are elsewhere!

Hey, wait I should make that my signature ... how do I do that ...

Edit: Found it Pirate
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2014-06-20 10:04:05 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
... The biggest problem I see is the whatever skill set you chose you will be punished....

Again the same issue over and over again, perception, you see it as punishment not having skills, I see it as a rewarding when I train for them.
And expectations, yes, expectations of what you should have, what should rightly be yours ... what the game owes you ...
... Really ?!


Your issues are elsewhere!

Hey, wait I should make that my signature ... how do I do that ...

Edit: Found it Pirate


Man i agree. But it's the same as with i.e. Su-27 Flanker 2 game. There are people who can spend 3 days learing how to take of and land, but there ain't a lot of them. You either make EVE more friendly or its fun base will die out Big smile.

It's not about reward. It's about having fun with the game from beginning and not being frustrated for a couple of days.

What do i care if new player gets couple of days of free sp? Maybe he will go to PvP earlier and I can shoot him down much sooner Lol.
Code Redd
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-06-20 10:15:41 UTC
Characters used to start with nearly this exact amount of skillpoints back in the day (from 2006 to maybe 2010?).

I used to use it to make copy alts. Back when your race, bloodline, and school effected what skills you started with (getting you up to 900k), it was pretty easy to do a few things. For me, it was industry alts for invention--they came pre-loaded with things like science 5, and labratory op 5... could get them up and making 9 copys in a few hours.

It was really abuse-able if you knew how to play it. Getting some skills to lvl 5 right away was oo powerful

so CCP reset it to 56k or something, and offered ways to make it go faster (new character speed bonuses, the newby implant that does like +12 to attributes or something for a week)....

My main character started in 2004 with just 6.2k skillpoints. She had no gunnery skills (not even THE gunnery skill) and no industry skills (not even industry, OR mining!). IT was a tedious and difficult thing to overcome--that, and my highest atribute was charisma.... with no way to change it, lol.

I think 50k is the right ballence for now. The boosts to training speed, or as u suggest, unallocated skillpoints give unrealistic expectations for later in the game (makes being 'grown up' feel slow).
Velicitia
XS Tech
#40 - 2014-06-20 10:16:46 UTC
Ko Kury Naki wrote:
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Point is, even 0 skill points are fine to start with, stop jabbing, your problems are elsewhere.


Let say I'm your RL friend.
Let say you want me to play EvE Online with you.
Let say I'm starting Trial Account having your invitation.

Please describe next week of playing EvE with me. Please describe fun you have and I have.




OK, so I send you a trial ...

- What server are you on? I don't wanna have to restart later ...
(um ...)

- Which race is the best at [thing]?
(they're all the same - just pick the back-story you like the most)

- Hey I'm sitting in this egg thing now, did I just level up?
(no ...)


Actually playing the game though, after we get through all the "no, it doesn't work this way" stuff ... and after you've gone through the tutorials.

You send me your API key, so I have your stats, and I can fit ships as if I were you.

we start in on the SOE Arc, in destroyers or maybe I'm in a T1 frigate (IDK what's "appropriate" for the SOE Arc). Name of the game is "get through the arc". As we progress, I help mold your skills to be better in frigates, while re-living that sense of awe and wonder newbros have through you. Also, I keep you from doing something daft, like trying to get into a battleship in 2 weeks.

After the SOE arc, we go explore -- maybe I take you to New Eden, so you can see the remains of the EVE Gate.

Furthermore, I encourage you to do "whatever", but still keep you grounded to a reasonable plan --> e.g. "sure, go be a miner, but train these PvP skills anyway, because it will find you sooner or later" or "no, that idiot on the forums saying you can get into a battleship in a month is going to get you killed. Bigger is not necessarily better at all in eve." (then go EFT up a fit limited to the skills in that "30 days to a battleship plan" and let you shoot me and see what happens).


One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia