Science & Industry

I am running a large Caldari POS, and run it tightly. Any modules not being used are offlined.

Currently, I am using:

4,400/7,500 CPU = 58.67% of CPU
880,000/2,750,000 = 32% of Grid.

My Heavy Water usage = 88/hour
My Liquid Ozone = 48/hour.

I know the new fuel block system assume full usage of CPU and grid for POS.
From looking at the block BPO, it appears to be 150 HW, 150 LO per hour now.

Is that right?

Am I facing over a tripling in my LO consumption?

This is insane.
Based on the new numbers a large POS will require 3600 units of LO/day.

I mine ice in a Hulk for some protection from gankers.
I get a little less than 36 units of ice/hour.
Based on my perfect refine, I am faced with 4 hours of ice mining every day, no breaks, to supply my LO for a single POS.

That is why you pay other people to obtain ice products for you, while paying them with ISK earned by doing something more profitable (like level 4 missions)

Granted, but the high sec player has no access to said resources.

Ultimately, that is the point I am making. The high sec small corp POS owners are finished if they want to be self-sufficient.
They have no choice but to pay market prices, because the opportunity costs of ice mining are enormous.

LO is at 400/unit now. I can see that doubling in 2 months.

I don't get the supposed problem here. Buy a lot of ozone. Or mine for four hours a day. No skin off of my teeth.

The reason I am ticked is I have to this point never bought any POS fuel.
I have been able to mine enough in high sec in what I considered reasonable time.

That is now changing.
My current requirements are 48/hour, which will now shoot to 150/hour.

Yes, adapt or die, put this is a real slap in the face.

And yes, I know, many other high sec players are facing huge slaps in the face with this release in other areas, so no point whining you will say.

Last point:
At current Jita prices or around 400 ISK/unit LO, a large POS will burn through a tad over 43 million ISK in LO/month.
If believe there are many other POS owners out there with similiar consumption numbers to me.
It is quite conceivable that the price of Liquid Ozone could double in a few months.
Then we are looking at 80 million/month just for that one POS fuel component.

Not fun for some.

Use some of your pos profits or level 4 missions or trade profits, spend less time to make isk than mining and buy the LO. Profits from my business are all I need. I also stock on two years worth of fuel so I don't need to worry about it for a while.

Best of luck.

(laughs) I thought I was an unusual one with a 12-month supply.

Old vs new Consumption (assuming a ME40 BPO of the fuel blocks and Production Efficiency V skill):

Coolant - 2/4/8 to 2/4/8
Enriched Uranium - 1/2/4 to 1/2/4
Mech Parts - 2/3/5 to 1/2/4
Oxygen - 7/13/25 to 5/10/20
Robotics - 1/1/1 to 0.25/0.50/1.00
Heavy Water - 38/75/150 to 38/75/150
Isotopes - 113/225/450 to 100/200/400
Liquid Ozone - 38/75/150 to 38/75/150

So Mech Parts consumption went down. Oxygen went down. Robotics was even or down. Isotopes went down. Whether your HW/LOz went up a little or a lot depends on how you had your tower setup before.

Under the old system - using October prices, a tower that fully utilized HW/LOz will go from/to costs for 30 days under the old/new system:

Small: ~140M -> 95M
Medium: ~220M -> 180M
Large: ~390 -> 365

But because prices are a bit screwy currently while the market shakes out (including estimated fuel block cost with ME40 and zero profit margin):

Amarr: 119 / 221 / 425 - 14768 ISK/u
Caldari: 121 / 225 / 435 - 15099 ISK/u
Gallente: 189 / 362 / 708 - 24578 ISK/u
Minmatar: 122 / 227 / 438 - 15225 ISK/u

Im not sure this has been addressed yet, but i believe the biggest problem to be the fact that LO is half what the HW refine is on a single block of ice, yet now they are needed at the same rate for a pos as HW,

Hisec pos's tend towards research towers and not deathstars so their old LO consumption was quite low, and generally more on par with Hw production per block ,*

* this is not strictly true, but it was more then true for me when i mined ice for a tower, in fact i had spare LO for all the HW i had to mine, which went to cynos, and such things, or i just mined enough LO and bought the HW off the market, it was really cheap because of the amounts hw actually used was low.

Now however, there will be a glut of isotopes, (nice for cap pilots to jump with) a large amount of spare HW, and the bottle neck will become more then ever LO production, you will have to mine even more ice to fuel the jB nets, and move the caps around.

In hisec this will mean more ice miners are needed, (and the total numbers of pos owners will go down as well) priced out because of hisec maintenance costs.

Im not at all suprised that nullsec bears dont seem to mind as much as the JB bridge towers tend to be deathstared and thus used all the pg already. changing very little for them in terms of fuel costs. (Cpu fuel coming in at 2x the rate of pg fuel)

If you look at the numbers for a moon goo tower, with 2 harvesters, and reactors, you see that it more closely resembles a hisec research pos where the cpu is the bottleneck for mods and not the PG, but if you average it with JB towers (which are opposite) your numbers dotn seem bad at all for total fuel costs. infact this change looks pretty good, less total maths, and single fuel types to manage at locations. but only on scale is this a good change.

I think this is what the op was worryign about when he wrote his post, (the LO bottleneck adn price of it to make up what he cant mine after the switchover when blocks become currency) and im not sure that CCP has looked at this as an issue.

Sure its nice to say that you should jsut move to low/null. but really, who actually wants to be friends with goons? I dont speak Russian, and Pl will jsut steamroll whoever stars to take sov when they get paid enough vodka. (to be fair, PL has done very well for itself, and Vodka is a nice drink)

but this is kinda the deathknell for actual solo pos owners,
I mean really? adding ice mining time ? you need the bot subs that badly? who actually wants to mine 2160 blocks (if you figure a 205 second cycle (perfect yeti-bx2 skilled character in a mack, + ganglink max skilled orca) its still 30.9 hours of mining a month to run that pos for 30 days.)

(24*30 * 75) Hours per day * days in a month * number of LO per hour
= 54,000 LO per month
54,000/25 LO per month / per perfect refine ice block
= 2160 block
2160 / 4 -> Blocks / mackinaw cycle amount
= 540 number of cycles
540 * 205 (seconds) /60/60
= 30.75 hours of mining , (this is for a month 30 days)

for a medium non-faction tower. with perfect refine skills, manufacturing, Exhumer/Ice mining, Mining implant, Max skilled orca w/ganglink,

seriously? I find myself any amount of ice mining to be pretty awful, and i know a lot of people agree with me. why are you upping the required ice mining ? are hisec pos owners really that much of an issue you need them gone? way to crowd out the casual gamers.

oh and i know it rambles a bit

OK, so about 30 hours of mining. Five miners, three two-hour ops (or two three-hour ops) - done.

Been there, done that (High *and* Null), can do it again if needed (and when done for corp, I don't ask for payment of my time).

CCP is trying to encourage more (Edit: High-Sec) POS owners to work together. While I think that's a great idea, I'd first like them to fix the role system so that its easier to deal with multiple fingers in a POS.