Player Features and Ideas Discussion

ok next try

miners working togerther to protect each other thats ok
i seen a fleet of neuts ganket with small drones from 28 mining ships
thats not the problem the isk made in 0.0 space are ok for miners even right now

the largest problem is the requirment to fly pvp every miner i know
in eve over my years off playing eve hates pvp CTA´s startops what ever it
makes no fun a few times is ok but its completly agains the playstyle miners choce

many pvplers say you must protect our space jup that ok pvp players should protect while miners provide the ships
etc in my eyes in time off war miner should simply get a 100 tax for refining etc and the industriel section can build ships
with it

A jump portal fleet that harvests it's own fuel as it moves around the galaxy like a horde of locusts, until one day it pops into the wrong neighborhood and in a Jita far far away, a disturbance is felt in the trit-force as a hundred procurers cry out in anguish during their last moments....

I mean... It sounds fun but it'd never happen. Think about how many miners you know who don't even like to move their barge 3 jumps to find a new field to strip....

You seem to have a very interesting (and distorted) view on how this works. Let's clear up something
1. Your contribution to an alliances operating cost is small.
2. Unless you are literally manufacturing at a 100% usage rate (ie every ship you manufacture is being used and lost in battle) your utility to the alliance is measured appropriately.
3. CTAs are part of a colonial lifestyle. You live in null? You're in a colony. The level of advancement changes from alliance to alliance but the principle is the same. Border security is not maintained by AFK miners like you.
4. Your playstyle as you accurately stated is your choice. Nullsec has certain requirements and if you're not prepared to satisfy them then *you* are in the wrong place.
5. The only industrial section that really matters in nullsec is their capital assembly capacity. As far as subcaps go until Crius goes live it has always been and will continue to be more efficient and safer to build thousands of ships in highsec at a not-inconsiderable discount.

In conclusion I could be calling you a variety of names but I will instead state the obvious: you feel entitled to things you do nothing to preserve.

And this is exactly why I originally proposed diminishing returns and regen rates on minerals. As the constellation gets mined out the minerals respawn in other portions of the region.

A predator that is too efficient eventually kills off all of its prey and then starves. Wormholers are a perfect example of this - in their subforum they literally **** down the neck of people who destroy start-up corps because it actually is not beneficial to wormhole gameplay to have noone to fight.

Spot on. I'm one of them.

Hulk or Paladin, makes no difference to me. Take the ore away, i'll run L4s. Take L4s away, i'll mine... take ore and L4s away, i'll unsub.

It's quite black & white. BUT, saying that, there is no incentive to mine in <0.5 - the risk is horrendously unbalanced compared to the reward. The only place I would like to try going is a wormhole. I quite fancy the idea of it, but again, what puts me off is the whole interconnecting thing. If a class of wormhole could have a single entrance to a high sec system only (i.e. no other wormhole connections, or low / null sec connection) I'd do it in an instant.

I know the mantra is... we want you to lose your ships, but, to a certain audience it doesn't appeal.

*my 2 cents*

Simple solution... to draw miners into null....

Capital Class Strip Miners that can only be fitted to a Rorqual.
Ofcourse limitations would have to be placed on them... (don't seed the abc crystals).

To go with this it would make sense to increase the quantities of low end ores in sites.

The miners progression would be...
Low ends in empire
ABC in small quantities from the new sites in low sec
ABC in larger quantities in 0.0
finally ending up in a rorq where it's more efficient to mine low ends in 0.0

NOTE... this also gives the Rorqual a role and encourages it to be on grid.

PvPers and Miners should be happy with that.

Why do you even play this game? Wouldn't you receive more gratification from something like minecraft?

I said missiles because you mine rocks with lasers and drones too. It wouldn't have been a very good analogy.


I'm still not sure about your maths. Are you taking into consideration the costs and logistics of operating a Rorqual? POS's + Fuel and cyno alts, then there is the fact that every time a neut comes into system the whole fleet will need to down tools and hole up.

The same cannot be said for high-sec mining. Sure, the yields are a bit less profitable, but the overheads are all but nonexistant and the only interuptions are very occasional miners and bumpers.

Compared to the risk/reward ratio for belt ratting and anomoly running, it presently is not that viable.


Now, I do see a light at the end of the tunnel, and I believe Crius is that light. The way to encourage miners to move to null is to increase the demand for their product in that area while also making it more expensive and/or difficult to obtain it from highsec. And hopefully, that is exactly what the industry changes in 5 weeks time will achieve.

Lower Risk=More Profit Sure you mine enough ABC ore to pay for your Skiff, Mack or your two hulk+orca setup in a week's time, but you still have to get it to market. Yes the reward is higher, but the potential to lose most of what you worked is much higher. Losing a ship in null is a major set back. Chances are there isn't a replacement anywhere near you. Nearest exhumer could be 30 jumps through null away. Nearest strip miners could be 30 jumps in the opposite direction. Fact is it could take a couple days of buying and moving **** around till you a ready to go ship again. Null presents a logistical nightmare for industrialist. Much easier and much more profitable to remain in high sec. Even WHs are better than null for miners. To get miners to null is going to require a major overhaul of how null industry works.

My usual take on this matter....


is it really that hard to train a fleet bs and bc, maybe a frig or 2 like inty and SB. Do this and voila....miner can be in 0.0.

Even the null bear ratters when pressed go on ops and roams. Its not a hard matrix....be seen on a few ops/roams a week, get the yeah they pvp check in the box....pve the rest of the time not catching crap for not pvp'ing.

Now some might say its easy for them. True, except for caldari. Although raven changed a bit back, rokh was and still is in many places it seems THE caldari fleet bs (no need to bring in missile whines here, we have threads galore on this to bump up for that lol).

You could have the most pro raven(variant) you could. It generally was laughed out of fleets. So even players like me with an equal mix of null bear and pvp (I am not a die hard bear nor do I live only for pvp) trained guns on an at the time caldari only combat char. I got my decent ratting raven going....then went hybrid train. To take my place in pvp fleets. If only to get that checkmark in the box I mentioned earlier.

Its 0.0, pvp is kind of expected. Show up even minimally on ops/roams and you get the pvp'ers not feeling liking they are being used. They see the ratter/miner in fleet once in a while and they go at least they aren't scared to maybe lose a ship once a while to keep the space more secure.

Same applies to builder chars. Good for you, you can make everything in game. Soooo, what can you do for corp/alliance when production maxed out and has 1-2 days as the smallest timer left? That and well the builder alt is a very common passive isk maker alt for pvp types. This would be the indy alt for my combat char. It made lots of isk to keep main in ships not needing to be played very actively.