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T2 BPO Prices
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Ellon JTC
Quadralien
#1 - 2014-06-18 20:11:49 UTC
The following are just some things I've been seeing in the last year. Want to know what others are thinking.

The price of a T2 BPO is calculated based on the profit it can earn in a 1~2 year period.

The profit formula for a T2 production line using T2 BPOs is pretty much straight forward:
  • [Profit] = [Item Price] - [Raw Material Price] (1)

    • The profit formula for a T2 production line using the invention process is something like this:
  • [Profit] = [Item Price] - [Raw Material Price][C]-[T2 BPC Price] (2)

    • Where [C] is a factor greater than [1] which counts for the additional materials used in invention in comparison to a perfectly researched T2 BPO.

    The [T2 BPC Price] comes from the formula below:
  • [T2 BPC Price] = [T1 BPC Price] + [Datacores] + [Decrypters] (3)
  • from (2) and (3) ==>> [Profit] = [Item Price] - [Raw Material Price][C]-[T1 BPC Price] - [Datacores] - [Decrypters] (4)

    • So basically the difference in profit from invention and using T2 BPOs comes from the formula below:

    (4) - (1) = [Delta Profit] = [Raw Material Price]([C]-1) + [T1 BPC Price] + [Datacores] + [Decrypters]

    IdeaWith the changes CCP made to exploration last year [Datacores] and [Decrypters] prices crashed. Some [Decrypters] went down from 10M to 1M. Therefore reducing the profit difference between invention and T2 BPOs:
    [Delta Profit] = [Raw Material Price]([C]-1) + [T1 BPC Price] + [Datacores] + [Decrypters]

    Idea With the same changes, the [Raw Material Price] for many of the T2 salvage components crashed. Again reducing the profit difference between invention and T2 BPO:
    [Delta Profit] = [Raw Material Price]([C]-1) + [T1 BPC Price] + [Datacores]+ [Decrypters]

    Idea The new update states that BPO copy time will be reduced. This will result in a decrease in BPC prices. Again reducing the profit difference between invention and T2 BPO:
    [Delta Profit] = [Raw Material Price]([C]-1) + [T1 BPC Price] + [Datacores]+ [Decrypters]

    Arrow Ideally if the profit difference between invention and T2 BPOs reach zero, T2 BPOs will be valued at zero isk. What are your thoughts on this?
    Tau Cabalander
    Retirement Retreat
    Working Stiffs
    #2 - 2014-06-18 20:31:06 UTC
    Ellon JTC wrote:
    What are your thoughts on this?

    Does anyone actually care about T2 BPOs?

    I'm a manufacturer, and a BPO collector, and I'm not even interested in them.

    The only practical use case I can think of for them is that one has so much ISK they can't make a decent return on it all, so they sink excess ISK into T2 BPO, or PLEX.
    Felicity Love
    Doomheim
    #3 - 2014-06-19 00:10:45 UTC
    The game is big enough and Invention is widespread enough that CCP could just quietly "convert" all T2 BPO's to bpc's one morning and the game would chug along on three wheels just fine.

    Well, perhaps not "quietly"... I'm quite sure there would be a "Goddamit, I'm gonna call my member of CSM" type flood of outrage.

    But hey, Life goes on, end of an era, and to be blunt T2 bpo's should have died when the T2 BPO lottery died.



    "EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
    Hemmo Paskiainen
    #4 - 2014-06-19 10:18:22 UTC
    Ellon JTC wrote:
    The following are just some things I've been seeing in the last year. Want to know what others are thinking.

    1: The price of a T2 BPO is calculated based on the profit it can earn in a 1~2 year period.

    2: The profit formula for a T2 production line using T2 BPOs is pretty much straight forward:
  • [Profit] = [Item Price] - [Raw Material Price] (1)

    • The profit formula for a T2 production line using the invention process is something like this:
  • [Profit] = [Item Price] - [Raw Material Price][C]-[T2 BPC Price] (2)

    • Where [C] is a factor greater than [1] which counts for the additional materials used in invention in comparison to a perfectly researched T2 BPO.

    The [T2 BPC Price] comes from the formula below:
  • [T2 BPC Price] = [T1 BPC Price] + [Datacores] + [Decrypters] (3)
  • from (2) and (3) ==>> [Profit] = [Item Price] - [Raw Material Price][C]-[T1 BPC Price] - [Datacores] - [Decrypters] (4)

    • So basically the difference in profit from invention and using T2 BPOs comes from the formula below:

    3: (4) - (1) = [Delta Profit] = [Raw Material Price]([C]-1) + [T1 BPC Price] + [Datacores] + [Decrypters]

    IdeaWith the changes CCP made to exploration last year [Datacores] and [Decrypters] prices crashed. Some [Decrypters] went down from 10M to 1M. Therefore reducing the profit difference between invention and T2 BPOs:
    [Delta Profit] = [Raw Material Price]([C]-1) + [T1 BPC Price] + [Datacores] + [Decrypters]

    Idea With the same changes, the [Raw Material Price] for many of the T2 salvage components crashed. Again reducing the profit difference between invention and T2 BPO:
    [Delta Profit] = [Raw Material Price]([C]-1) + [T1 BPC Price] + [Datacores]+ [Decrypters]

    Idea The new update states that BPO copy time will be reduced. This will result in a decrease in BPC prices. Again reducing the profit difference between invention and T2 BPO:
    [Delta Profit] = [Raw Material Price]([C]-1) + [T1 BPC Price] + [Datacores]+ [Decrypters]

    4: Arrow Ideally if the profit difference between invention and T2 BPOs reach zero, T2 BPOs will be valued at zero isk. What are your thoughts on this?


    I have put some numbers infront of some lines in your quotes. I think, and certaily know you have made unfortualy some assuming mistakes or forgotten some important factors.

    If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
    Korgan Medel
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #5 - 2014-06-19 13:20:15 UTC
    I know very little about bpos or manufacturing, but the other day I was looking at a Wolf BPO on the forums it was sold for 50 billion and then subsequently put on sale again by someone who trades bpos for 225 billion.

    I only searched through a few posts and found one where someone mentioned that in high sec the most Wolves you could produce in a week would be 24.

    So by my reckonings on 7mil profit per wolf it would take you 24 years or something stupid to make it profitable buying it at that price.
    Samroski
    Middle-Earth
    #6 - 2014-06-19 14:01:06 UTC
    Ellon JTC wrote:

    The price of a T2 BPO is calculated based on the profit it can earn in a 1~2 year period.

    Nothing could be further from the truth. Your entire argument is based on a false presumption.

    People have suggested profit over a 10 year period, and even this is incorrect.

    T2 BPOs are collector items, and even with reduced profits they will stay illogically expensive.

    Any colour you like.
    Grendell
    Technologies Unlimited
    #7 - 2014-06-19 14:39:08 UTC
    Just dropping in to say those T2 bpo evaluations are quite off. The prices on a bpo vary from 1 year profit upwards to 25 years profit depending on the bpo.

    Generally speaking useless bpos will be 1-4 years profit, low end ammo/modules about 5-7 years profit, decent mods and ammo about 8-10 years profit, excellent ammo and modules about 10-15 years profit. Ships can vary the most, anywhere from 5 to 25 years profit depending on the profit/sales and prestige level of the ship.

    ◄[♥]►3rd Party Service◄[♥]►

    ♥ Securing Peace of mind ♥
    Hemmo Paskiainen
    #8 - 2014-06-20 13:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
    Grendell wrote:
    Just dropping in to say those T2 bpo evaluations are quite off. The prices on a bpo vary from 1 year profit upwards to 25 years profit depending on the bpo.

    Generally speaking useless bpos will be 1-4 years profit, low end ammo/modules about 5-7 years profit, decent mods and ammo about 8-10 years profit, excellent ammo and modules about 10-15 years profit. Ships can vary the most, anywhere from 5 to 25 years profit depending on the profit/sales and prestige level of the ship.


    Sorry to say Grendell, you can not hardly define a XX amount of years is profit on certain types of prints. There are certain parameters that people often forget that influences profits highly than can go cross types. As its valuable information, handing it out to the forum nubs is soo 2007 Pirate

    If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
    Grendell
    Technologies Unlimited
    #9 - 2014-06-20 14:48:18 UTC
    Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
    Grendell wrote:
    Just dropping in to say those T2 bpo evaluations are quite off. The prices on a bpo vary from 1 year profit upwards to 25 years profit depending on the bpo.

    Generally speaking useless bpos will be 1-4 years profit, low end ammo/modules about 5-7 years profit, decent mods and ammo about 8-10 years profit, excellent ammo and modules about 10-15 years profit. Ships can vary the most, anywhere from 5 to 25 years profit depending on the profit/sales and prestige level of the ship.


    Sorry to say Grendell, you can not hardly define a XX amount of years is profit on certain types of prints. There are certain parameters that people often forget that influences profits highly than can go cross types. As its valuable information, handing it out to the forum nubs is soo 2007 Pirate



    I completely agree, there is no static formula. Was just to give him a rough idea. A lot of bpos just follow the "shiny" factor rule where profits have zero impact on the bpo value.

    ◄[♥]►3rd Party Service◄[♥]►

    ♥ Securing Peace of mind ♥
    Carniflex
    StarHunt
    Mordus Angels
    #10 - 2014-06-20 14:52:13 UTC
    Tau Cabalander wrote:
    Ellon JTC wrote:
    What are your thoughts on this?

    Does anyone actually care about T2 BPOs?

    I'm a manufacturer, and a BPO collector, and I'm not even interested in them.

    The only practical use case I can think of for them is that one has so much ISK they can't make a decent return on it all, so they sink excess ISK into T2 BPO, or PLEX.


    I do and I put their existence as the reason every time I cancel a sub.

    Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
    Bad Bobby
    Bring Me Sunshine
    In Tea We Trust
    #11 - 2014-06-20 15:00:51 UTC
    Carniflex wrote:
    Tau Cabalander wrote:
    Ellon JTC wrote:
    What are your thoughts on this?

    Does anyone actually care about T2 BPOs?

    I do and I put their existence as the reason every time I cancel a sub.

    I do and I thank them every time I sub another account.
    Carniflex
    StarHunt
    Mordus Angels
    #12 - 2014-06-20 15:03:37 UTC
    Bad Bobby wrote:
    Carniflex wrote:
    Tau Cabalander wrote:
    Ellon JTC wrote:
    What are your thoughts on this?

    Does anyone actually care about T2 BPOs?

    I do and I put their existence as the reason every time I cancel a sub.

    I do and I thank them every time I sub another account.

    Well - I don't have any and that is why I have a grudge. I'll be happy to shut up and argue in their favor as soon as anyone feels like throwing me a bone as well.

    Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
    Bad Bobby
    Bring Me Sunshine
    In Tea We Trust
    #13 - 2014-06-20 15:07:09 UTC
    Carniflex wrote:
    Well - I don't have any and that is why I have a grudge. I'll be happy to shut up and argue in their favor as soon as anyone feels like throwing me a bone as well.

    Well, if you will squander all your isk on loose cars and fast women...