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Level 3 Security Missions Comparisons and Discussions

First post
Author
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2014-06-16 16:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Lar Tadaruwa wrote:
Edit 2 @ 15:58:
I'm now offered :
Gone Berserk, Level 3
EoM
The Equilibrium of Mankind (typically referred to as EoM) is an Amarrian terrorist death-cult faction...

Which seems to be too hard although I have almost 2 hours to complete it and rake it in.
The cost of completion is not worth it to me since it costs me more than the reward, time, etc.
I would get more from just getting PLEX and honest trading.
But I'm still counting and trying to get more exact details.
I don't want anything to disturb me even more from arriving at those exact mathematical findings.

What? Gone Berserk is one of the best missions you can get. Not only are the pay and standings gains good but its a really easy mission. You can even blitz it by only killing one of the spawn chains and ignoring the other two.

All the rats spawn at about the same distance from you so they are easy to pick apart and they do almost all kinetic damage with a little bit of thermal so they are easy to tank. I don't see how it could get any easier. A HAM Ceberus or Tengu will absolutely destroy this mission. Any sentry boat like the Dominix/Navy Vexor/Myrmidon will also easily solo this.

Edit: If you are having trouble with this mission post your fit and I'm sure the people here will be happy to advise you on how to improve it.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#22 - 2014-06-16 17:06:56 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:


Edit: If you are having trouble with this mission post your fit and I'm sure the people here will be happy to advise you on how to improve it.

Don't ask for his fit, he will block you after a long post regarding how your trying to derail his plans.

If you look back a few posts you can see his fully T1 fitted and T1 light drones Dominix, but telling him to change training results in a similar response, followed by the 'I will block you' comment.

I can't imagine having the patience to spend 2 hours in a Lvl-3 mission, for a couple 100k ISK, so at least he has patience going for him.

Good luck trying to get through to him.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-06-16 17:11:21 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:


Edit: If you are having trouble with this mission post your fit and I'm sure the people here will be happy to advise you on how to improve it.

Don't ask for his fit, he will block you after a long post regarding how your trying to derail his plans.

If you look back a few posts you can see his fully T1 fitted and T1 light drones Dominix, but telling him to change training results in a similar response, followed by the 'I will block you' comment.

I can't imagine having the patience to spend 2 hours in a Lvl-3 mission, for a couple 100k ISK, so at least he has patience going for him.

Good luck trying to get through to him.

Your right its the same guy. How did I miss that.
Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-06-16 22:48:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Lar Tadaruwa
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Lar Tadaruwa wrote:
Edit 2 @ 15:58:
I'm now offered :
Gone Berserk, Level 3
EoM
The Equilibrium of Mankind (typically referred to as EoM) is an Amarrian terrorist death-cult faction...

Which seems to be too hard although I have almost 2 hours to complete it and rake it in.
The cost of completion is not worth it to me since it costs me more than the reward, time, etc.
I would get more from just getting PLEX and honest trading.
But I'm still counting and trying to get more exact details.
I don't want anything to disturb me even more from arriving at those exact mathematical findings.

What? Gone Berserk is one of the best missions you can get. Not only are the pay and standings gains good but its a really easy mission. You can even blitz it by only killing one of the spawn chains and ignoring the other two.

All the rats spawn at about the same distance from you so they are easy to pick apart and they do almost all kinetic damage with a little bit of thermal so they are easy to tank. I don't see how it could get any easier. A HAM Ceberus or Tengu will absolutely destroy this mission. Any sentry boat like the Dominix/Navy Vexor/Myrmidon will also easily solo this.

Edit: If you are having trouble with this mission post your fit and I'm sure the people here will be happy to advise you on how to improve it.

I made videos, but it takes 2 times as long to upload them if not 3 times longer.
I succeeded the mission as you can probably read.

Edit 1:
The fittings were :
1.
Edit 8 @ 17:13:
Fitting: Dominix

2.
#16 Posted: 2014.06.15 18:07
Fitting:
Dominix Salvage

It paid me 8.2m ISK looted items
So much loot, I couldn't pick it up in one round and had to come back.
It took over 4 hours.
Maybe over 10m with Bounties and LPs.


Storyline (preparing for clone jump)
Kidnappers Strike, level 3
Part 3 - The Kidnapping
vs- Kin Th Ex
Rec: EM Th

Edit 2 @ 23:18:
485,000 ISK
Bonus Rewards ... within 4 hours and 11 minutes ; 614,000 ISK

EVE Online Billboard News http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels - Quafe Free-delivery offer! - Buy Quafe for Futility contest.  +Answer the Quafe Quiz to win.

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#25 - 2014-06-16 23:32:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:


Edit: If you are having trouble with this mission post your fit and I'm sure the people here will be happy to advise you on how to improve it.

Don't ask for his fit, he will block you after a long post regarding how your trying to derail his plans.

If you look back a few posts you can see his fully T1 fitted and T1 light drones Dominix, but telling him to change training results in a similar response, followed by the 'I will block you' comment.

I can't imagine having the patience to spend 2 hours in a Lvl-3 mission, for a couple 100k ISK, so at least he has patience going for him.

Good luck trying to get through to him.

Your right its the same guy. How did I miss that.

The way he is trying to do it is exactly what us mission runners complain about, even deplore. The narrow science of running missions in a very specific way and with predefined results/rewards always the same, always predictable, redundantly so. In this way, one mission is always more easily done than another mission, if you follow the specific guidelines for mission ship doctrines, follow the script and collect the reward like a mouse in a maze. It takes grinding to a new level. But EVE is more flexible, and results vary with - somewhat - varying skills trained, ships used and even fittings equipped, as well as personal tactics used, not to mention the security level of the system you are in. This is undefinable, as mission runners realize after spending actual time at length with the system. And we would even prefer more variation to what is compared to or attempting to define it to a narrow science, which is in itself elusive. EVE would need to be further dumbed down to do so.

Additionally, to add/edit-in, this is more personal blog material, rather than a discussion for a discussion forum as this is. I think that was his idea with mentioning he had to "copyright videos" etc or whatever, which in itself makes no sense since it's not really copyrightable as it's really intellectual property of CCP and can only carry CCP's copyright and/or trademark by legal means. But yeah, this isn't a blog site... I'm sure I'm probably blocked now too, but hey this is his new personal blog site I guess lo/

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-06-16 23:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lar Tadaruwa
1,370,000m ISK looted and counting.

Edit 1 @ 23:41:
I looted 3 x Drazin's Keycard
This is a chaos-logic keycard. It had been issued to a pirate by the name of Drazin Jaruk. It will open the acceleration gate for a short time and then self-destruct.
...
There are three incase you would need to warp out and back : each gate activation consumes one keycard.

Only 2 more wreck with MTU. I scoop and then use the 1st of 3 keys.


Edit 2 @ 23:53:
+140k + 770k
I won't have enough cargo space to grab it and go.
I will have to go drop at base (1 jump away, 2 jumps round trip), clear hold, and come back.
I will clear a Passive
Limited Explosive Plating I
-23% Explosive Damage Resistance Bonus to make space for an Expanded Cargohold.


Edit 3 @ 23:54:
I am carrying 10 units of Crash.


Edit 4 @ 23:59:
The customs caught me and webbed scammed me, and destroyed me.
I got 74m insurance.
Not enough for another BS.
I will jump back in my clone a sell some junk, but there is only 50m.
Still 40% short of a BS + that doesn't include drones, etc.

Is there any way to kill those with a BS?
Or do you just have to hand over the Crash or not pick it up?
The BS is too slow to align and escape the Customs.


Edit 5 @ 00:01:
25 minutes before I can Jump Clone back.


Edit 6 @ 00:06:
I will have enough in 3 days to get a new BS and finish the Storyline mission.
I lose the bonus of the 3rd one though.
All I have left are:
Destroyers
Catalyst (2) 9j 14j, Algos (2) 9j 15j


Edit 7 @ 00:18:
Actually no, because the 3 keys were lost.
So I lose the 1 Storyline mission Faction bonus of 1 in 16 mission.
I hope I will get an easier one than that next time.


Edit 8 @ 00:31:
I got my loot back though.
4m drop.
There is no youtube video for
eve online Kidnappers Strike


Edit 9 @ 00:36:
That will probably not be worth it for me to get a 2nd PLEX at this point .
I will just finish training and forego standings.
It will save me more time and money.


Edit 10 @ 00:39:
That just costed another 200m + btw, for 10 units of Crash worth around 14,000 ISK or 40,000 ISK...


Edit 11 @ 00:46:
200m ISK is worth how many level 4 mission ?
What about 700m? or 1.5b?


Edit 12 @ 02:22:
I forgot to restart learning the Mechanic V skill after Jumping to a Jump Clone.
That will have to be tomorrow morning.
What a waste of time , efforts, good will, annoyance from others , and enough pyschological warfare to post in the Crime and Punishment forums about it.


Edit 13:
Done. There was no EVE client on the last system used.
The ratio of difference between the Crash and ship partial costs is 14,285 times.
Possibly more than square the value of the 10 units of Crash itself.

My learning can be updated after 3 PM today. I won't need Connections V which takes 14 days.
I will be able to choose BS V or other Black Ops skills.

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Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#27 - 2014-06-17 14:30:51 UTC
<- Continues munching popcorn. This thread delivers.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."

Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-06-17 17:13:00 UTC
I was suggested Sentries and I got the rest of the day off.
Trying to pick up a $50 check. bbl.
I still deliver Quafe for real, that includes all Quafe products.
Disclaimer: Except toilet paper. I categorically refuse to.

There's a few other thing to include which could go in my signature line but I forgot.

EVE Online Billboard News http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels - Quafe Free-delivery offer! - Buy Quafe for Futility contest.  +Answer the Quafe Quiz to win.

Unter Daem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-06-17 18:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Unter Daem
wut.

I thought I saw earlier in the gibberish that you can only deal thermal/kinetic damage? This is False. Missiles can deal any type of damage. For EM, look to Mjolnir missiles. For explosive, look to Nova missiles. Projectiles can deal any type as well, though it's less focused. look for EMP ammo for EM damage, and Fusion is good for explosive. If you use hybrids, yes. one of hybrid's weaknesses is that it can only deal therm/kin damage. It's why hybrid platforms are generally not among the top mission ships. same deal with Lasers. they can ONLY deal EM/therm. laser ships can be great in amarr space, but generally again, not top mission ships.

As to the rest of op's posts, refer to the opening.
Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-06-17 19:19:55 UTC
Unter Daem wrote:
wut.

I thought I saw earlier in the gibberish that you can only deal thermal/kinetic damage? This is False. Missiles can deal any type of damage. For EM, look to Mjolnir missiles. For explosive, look to Nova missiles. Projectiles can deal any type as well, though it's less focused. look for EMP ammo for EM damage, and Fusion is good for explosive. If you use hybrids, yes. one of hybrid's weaknesses is that it can only deal therm/kin damage. It's why hybrid platforms are generally not among the top mission ships. same deal with Lasers. they can ONLY deal EM/therm. laser ships can be great in amarr space, but generally again, not top mission ships.

As to the rest of op's posts, refer to the opening.

erm, this ship has sailed without missiles.
It uses Hybrid ammo which do not deliver Kinetic damage.
The drones do all the Kinetic damage, more than the on board equip of zero.
That is 100% more of 0 which is like a miracle in itself although a definite term...

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#31 - 2014-06-17 19:20:52 UTC
I use a blaster Harpy for level 3.

There is only one missions I can't do in that ship: the one with the energy neut tower AND stasis web tower.

Anyone remember the name? I always have to switch to a BC (arty Hurricane) for that one.
Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-06-17 19:24:08 UTC
I never saw that yet, or I forgot.

I will deliver you Quafe.

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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#33 - 2014-06-17 19:35:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Tau Cabalander wrote:
I use a blaster Harpy for level 3.

There is only one missions I can't do in that ship: the one with the energy neut tower AND stasis web tower.

Anyone remember the name? I always have to switch to a BC (arty Hurricane) for that one.

With rails or blasters? There are a few with those towers. If you have a lot of problems taking them down at/out-of range, try equipping a stealth mod to get in close enough to shoot. Even if blasters, you should get in close enough with stealth to get dps on it. edit: oh yeah you said blasters. Yeah just stealth in, they don't start spinning targeting until you move, usually, or wait too long. Well either that or set up a ~100km snipe fit, which ever you have the skills for. I run my hawk with a number of saved fits, have all the hybrids and missiles specialized etc. then stealth fits and all that.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#34 - 2014-06-17 20:14:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Webvan wrote:
If you have a lot of problems taking them down at/out-of range, try equipping a stealth mod to get in close enough to shoot.

Doh! That's so obvious, why didn't I think of it Oops

Thanks for the good idea. I'll give it a try next time.

EDIT: I think the mission may be New Frontiers 2 of 7.
Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-06-17 20:19:05 UTC
Well , that yes, I will learn Cloaks.

Anyways, it was nice enough to be able to do level 3 missions at under 2.8m SP.
Big difference from my veteran pilots which never flown a Battleship.

They are by far the most powerful ship per SP for me so far although more risky due to higher cost.

In fact, I could have done those level 3 mission all with T1 modules and practically no SP or experience.
That would increase my income at over 10m per hour or 20m per 4 hours at level 4 missions.

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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#36 - 2014-06-17 20:42:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Webvan wrote:
If you have a lot of problems taking them down at/out-of range, try equipping a stealth mod to get in close enough to shoot.

Doh! That's so obvious, why didn't I think of it Oops

Thanks for the good idea. I'll give it a try next time.

EDIT: I think the mission may be New Frontiers 2 of 7.

Oh no worries, it's easy to overlook. I just spent the first couple years of my game mostly flying fighting stealth explorers before the odyssey changes. Though I'm spoiled on cov-ops colaks, I eventually realized that the other cloaky mods were viable for certain missions when I wanted to get in close before getting locked. Not as easy to do in a T1, but usually enough room on a T2 fit. Though T1 destroyers they fit well into too.

Lar Tadaruwa wrote:
Well , that yes, I will learn Cloaks.

Anyways, it was nice enough to be able to do level 3 missions at under 2.8m SP.
Big difference from my veteran pilots which never flown a Battleship.

They are by far the most powerful ship per SP for me so far although more risky due to higher cost.

In fact, I could have done those level 3 mission all with T1 modules and practically no SP or experience.
That would increase my income at over 10m per hour or 20m per 4 hours at level 4 missions.

Yeah, I still don't consider the T1 BS optimal for lvl3. A cruiser seems more flexible, and can even go into lowsec where the effort is rewarded a bit better (and AF is just a mini-cruiser). Usually the lower the security you go, the better the return for your effort. Then the BS is very slow moving, eating up a lot of time. See, it all changes, your results may be a bit different even missioning in .5 compared to 1.0. If you are doing all of this in highsec, best to do it in .5 to .6 and as in most cases in such cheap ships no one is hardly going to hunt your cheap ships.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-06-17 21:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lar Tadaruwa
Webvan wrote:

Yeah, I still don't consider the T1 BS optimal for lvl3. A cruiser seems more flexible, and can even go into lowsec where the effort is rewarded a bit better (and AF is just a mini-cruiser). Usually the lower the security you go, the better the return for your effort. Then the BS is very slow moving, eating up a lot of time. See, it all changes, your results may be a bit different even missioning in .5 compared to 1.0. If you are doing all of this in highsec, best to do it in .5 to .6 and as in most cases in such cheap ships no one is hardly going to hunt your cheap ships.

Except for the BS and parallel Black Ops related Skills...
I just finished learning how to use a Large Hull Repair device and can repair for free saving 5m to 10m cost.
I already have the Large Hull Repair in my Hangar.

You are lucky that they delayed my $50 check and that I will lose it.
It will be due to over 2 months of delays without the freedom to cash it or get an agent to do it.
Otherwise, I'd have another BS.

As for the low-sec required missions, I go in rookie ship if I can help it.
I use both MWD and Afterburner to avoid scramblers, but that has little effect against webs range...


Edit:
It still would be more profitable for me to not play or even train skills as even my training costs are higher than others.

I would still make more profit trading on the Bazaar than spending time in Missions, or Anomalies or Exploring in a Cruiser or BC or other.
I will never try Carriers capital ship without a protecting fleet .
That is also why I never bought an Orca or Freighter.

In as much as the ratio of accuracy of suggestion is efficient, the attack level against is directly proportional.
That means that others have a 99% chance of destroying me.
That even held true in gangs of 20 to 50 against 1.

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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#38 - 2014-06-17 23:24:33 UTC
Lar Tadaruwa wrote:

Except for the BS and parallel Black Ops related Skills...
I just finished learning how to use a Large Hull Repair device and can repair for free saving 5m to 10m cost.
I already have the Large Hull Repair in my Hangar.

You are lucky that they delayed my $50 check and that I will lose it.
It will be due to over 2 months of delays without the freedom to cash it or get an agent to do it.
Otherwise, I'd have another BS.

As for the low-sec required missions, I go in rookie ship if I can help it.
I use both MWD and Afterburner to avoid scramblers, but that has little effect against webs range...

Black ops? The T2 BS? I'd never advise using a black ops BS for any type of mission, at all. For lvl3 missions, imo the winner for standings farming I'd say is T3, HAC or force recon (I have them). I just use rocket/blaster AF because it's more fun, less boring, but still wipes the floor on the rats, and gets in and out really quickly. I'd only consider using any BS for it if using 'smart' bombs... which is not the 'smartest' thing to use in highsec as a primary weapon hehe.

I've never fit both AB and MWD on a rookie ship, I didn't even know you could... since seems it's too much drain to even try. I do fit them on a breacher though, with very extended missile range on that and a little extra power. Not just that, but a breacher fully T2 fit and with a lot less SP than you are using here, and with pvp fit skills. Rookie ship is a little underpowered to do any serious roaming it seems. I can buy a stack of 10 well fit breachers after 20 minutes of lvl4 missioning. An SB or AF with just one mission.

You said you have a main with more SP, you really don't need to be spending your check to buy a BS. T1 BS is so cheap it's considered disposable, especially with insurance. Even running missions into lowsec, you can do far better with disposable ships (frigs & cruisers there) than with a free rookie ship. Just from four or five lvl4 missions you can buy a BS fully fit with T2 modules, all earning it from highsec. If you put your higher SP character on that, the only real challenge will be trying to stay awake while your ISK gets fat.

You punish yourself too much, dude. I can understand doing things for the challenge, but for the most part everyone tries to fly smart in EVE. That is why there is so much variation in the game, you can fly smart the way that fits your play style best. It's not like WoW or something, were everyone is basically in the same gear and doing it in the same way. Not so much smart vs dumb kind of smart, but smart as in you make your path in this game - deadly - and very much different than how the other guy may be doing it. Usually that doesn't include self-punishment or limitations though. That's why every thread here has different opinions, there are just so many ways to even do just one single thing in EVE.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-06-18 00:46:55 UTC
Webvan wrote:

Black ops? The T2 BS? I'd never advise using a black ops BS for any type of mission, at all. For lvl3 missions, imo the winner for standings farming I'd say is T3, HAC or force recon (I have them). I just use rocket/blaster AF because it's more fun, less boring, but still wipes the floor on the rats, and gets in and out really quickly. I'd only consider using any BS for it if using 'smart' bombs... which is not the 'smartest' thing to use in highsec as a primary weapon hehe.

I've never fit both AB and MWD on a rookie ship, I didn't even know you could... since seems it's too much drain to even try. I do fit them on a breacher though, with very extended missile range on that and a little extra power. Not just that, but a breacher fully T2 fit and with a lot less SP than you are using here, and with pvp fit skills. Rookie ship is a little underpowered to do any serious roaming it seems. I can buy a stack of 10 well fit breachers after 20 minutes of lvl4 missioning. An SB or AF with just one mission.

You said you have a main with more SP, you really don't need to be spending your check to buy a BS. T1 BS is so cheap it's considered disposable, especially with insurance. Even running missions into lowsec, you can do far better with disposable ships (frigs & cruisers there) than with a free rookie ship. Just from four or five lvl4 missions you can buy a BS fully fit with T2 modules, all earning it from highsec. If you put your higher SP character on that, the only real challenge will be trying to stay awake while your ISK gets fat.

You punish yourself too much, dude. I can understand doing things for the challenge, but for the most part everyone tries to fly smart in EVE. That is why there is so much variation in the game, you can fly smart the way that fits your play style best. It's not like WoW or something, were everyone is basically in the same gear and doing it in the same way. Not so much smart vs dumb kind of smart, but smart as in you make your path in this game - deadly - and very much different than how the other guy may be doing it. Usually that doesn't include self-punishment or limitations though. That's why every thread here has different opinions, there are just so many ways to even do just one single thing in EVE.

I tested missions, Mission while dual-client with a hauler, and BS.
I find it easier to do the anomalies in BS with an algos Gallente destroyer (with 10 drones).

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

Article 20.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

I have a Force Recon but it is much harder to get than a BS.
I don't have a HAC or T3.
I don't plan on doing mission with my Black Ops.
No, in fact, the reason I need a Black Ops is for mobility since I am ambushed.

The new Covert Ops ORE Frigate, of which I bought one btw, will work fine with that.
I already have a BR, SB, and Force Recon too.

The MWD AB on a rookie ship is good if you can outrun a web to warp while disrupted or scrammed.
It is not for anything else.
However, if having to travel in low sec, even if for a courier mission part of a storyline level 3...
It worked for me.
There was no one there.
There was 5 at the High sec gate.

I of course won't use T2 if I can find cheaper more cost efficient modules to avoid loses.
Rookie ship roam in low sec have the advantage of not being killed with no implants.
You can get popped indefinitely for free.

I simply don't do mission in low sec or go there at all without my support fleet(s).

I have a list of all the pod pilot characters in the Price Checks forum.
Search "8 pod".
They are listed by SP and type.

I don't punish myself, in fact I tested and gathered data which I will use for analysis later on.
I do not think in terms of negativity of the tests.
You strive to focus on that, and try to make me feel like if I did something wrong when I don't.

It was not for challenge.

If I wanted more challenges I would attack players and try to pirate them by getting spoiled from them as they try to do me.

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Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#40 - 2014-06-18 00:57:35 UTC
Does this thread make anyone else's head hurt?

(Perhaps from banging onto desk, grabbing forehead and squeezing, or just a throbbing pain that starts behind the eyes and explodes out of your forehead like a Greek gods childbirth)

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

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