Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Point to note, there will be a time in any characters development where they will have all base skills at V and their favoured ship at all V's. I betting this would take less than a year unless you want to fly a cap/super/titan at all V's.

A new player will *allways* be able to catch up to a bittervet in SP terms as the SP used in a cruiser 1v1 for instance is only a specific subset. Given that the bittervet may have been here since day 1 of Eve and the newb can effectively 'catch them up' in a given hull within 1 year or so (except for bigger hulls which in my view is fair enough) I'd say the skill system works pretty damn well.

on a side note I just lost a cheap thorax in losec to an older player. Do I think this is unfair? Nope, they only caught me as I made a mistake from being distracted (note to self, don't fly losec when the gf is working from home, she has many ways to be distracting :D). Had I jumped out at the correct point they wouldn't have had the chance to catch me. This wasn't due to them having more SP or a better ship (tengu in a combat anom, I had no chance!). They dictated the engagement in a manner that I could not win. Even by getting under his missiles I lost as the rats were pounding me from range.

He won because he used his player experience and profited from my inexperience. That's player skills not SP. His extra SP would have made no difference had I bugged out 3 seconds earlier.

There is always only a limited amount of 'ahead' in SP terms for any given hull. if you want to really **** off the bittervets train up all V's for an interceptor over the first few months and go flashing by their gatecamps in null...You'll lose the odd ship to particularly vigilant camps but you'll severely wind up many more...

For the record most actually competitive players in this game avoid Battleclinic fits like the plague, they're notoriously atrocious.

Why, oh - why ?!

I totally don't get the max skill, faster skill need at all. But coming from WoW or any other skill / char level based game, you misunderstand how EVE works. You don't need to max or 'level' (a term widely misunderstood in regards to EVE) anything to access any space or content, sure, you might die alone in the cold of space, but so can any other.

I trained in only 1 month into a Rattlesnake (was month 2nd to 3rd, since I spend my second month, as mentioned earlier, for the all destroyer, all battlecrusier reiburcement, and yes, decided that as a 1 month old player) and used it efficiently right away and continuously sicne then with fun.

I could do everything with it that I expected to be able to from day one, my closest call was a 6% hull warp out, and trained since then to fly it better and more efficient. But even with 9 months worth of training jsut for this ship, and I am close to max damage, application and support, ISIS for example shows that I only have the mastery level 1 !!!
Does it hinder my performance? No!
Does it keep me from doing what I expect to be able to do with the ship regardless of my skills ? No!
Do I feel preassured to train more or faster ? No!
Does it keep me from having fun ? No!
Was I disappointed and disheartend as a beginner looking at the requirements ? No!
Does it matter in any way ? No!

One thing I noticed in Eve is when you are looking for a new ship type, no matter the skills or the ISK requirements, once you committed and got the skills trained, the money to afford it has appeared somehow. Or in case you focus on the money side and accumulate wealth, as soon as you did you will noticed that the skills somehow are ready too. If it doesn't for you, then you are clearly doing something wrong.

It is well balanced this way, which keeps most people from flying what they should not - This is towards you, you young PLEX buyers.

Dont like it? dont play. Eve is not for everyone. Hence ur other thread. (its not even urs, lel. my bad.)

Anyone with a little experience could have said its a bad idea to remap right away. U were in eve uni for a whole week, perhaps one could have asked more experienced players about remaps?

The fool that does no research and dives in often shoots himself in the foot. This game rewards careful planning and patience. Again, this is exactly why we like it. Ur not totally screwed over because of ur poor remap however, but u may be at a slight disadvantage compared to someone who had the common sense to reach out to other players and find out some more information before making that decision.

It does sound like u are the kind of person that screams 'i want, and i want it NOW'. and if u are, this game will not satisfy ur need for instant gratification.

Its not just skill training that takes time, everything takes time.

Making money takes time
Making ships and equipment takes time
Investments take time to become fruitful
Fights take time to prepare for
Targets take time to find
Relationships take time to build

Its a complex, harsh, difficult to play, long-haul kind of game. Thats just how we like it.

Exactly this, if you are out using the skills you have in some way then you simply don't notice the training time passing for the other skills, and generate isk/fun whilst doing so...

This is like sitting down to play a game of Chess and then complaining that the bishop can only move diagonally and it's not fair and you don't like it and the bishop should be able to move other ways. Those are the rules of the game that thousands of people have adhered to for years and years. Changing them isn't really on the table just because some newcomer sat down and tried it for the first time and decided they don't really like that rule.




This. Doesn't. Matter. Get that through your head. "I don't like it" is not an argument. Absolutely nobody cares, anymore than than they would care if you didn't like that bishops can only move diagonally.



A. Battleclinic fits are famous for sucking.

B. There is no rule stating that a fit is only proper if it includes a certain grade of module.

C. If you're waiting until you can do it "perfectly" you are doing it wrong. The problem isn't the game - the problem is you. Stop waiting and just go ******* do things. Can't fit all the T2 modules? Downgrade to meta-4 (or even 3 - you'll see plenty of J5B warp scramblers being used because they're so cheap and easy to fit, for instance) where necessary. You'll be 80-90% as effective in 20% of the time.




You do have the right to say it, but you don't really have any right to be listened to, acknowledged, or treated as an equal because, simply put, you are not. You simply do not know enough about the game to have an informed opinion. You know just enough to have ignorant, misinformed opinions that lead to ****** ideas that the vast majority of people with informed opinions hate.

You have no sense of the scope of the damage your ideas would do. All you know is, "Grrr, I don't like it so it should change because the word "subjective" is not in my lexicon and things I like are definitely better than things I don't like regardless of any and all unforeseen consequences."

If you want to be able to do everything in a few months, I can absolutely promise you the answer is always going to be "tough ****", so either learn to adapt to the situation, or go find something that better suits you.

Lvl 5 prereqs is the only thing CCP could tweak, imo.

As the already did, for example, with Thermodynamics and Carrier prereqs.

For example, PVP could maybe be more entertaining for everyone (including vets) if it were faster to get into T2/T3 cruisers with T2 tank and weaponry.

Looking at it from the vets' perspective: they wouldn't have to wait for an year to fly their advanced cruisers alongside - or against - promising and enthusiastic PVP newbros.

More frequent random bonus remaps from CCP would go a long way to easing things a bit. Since bonus remaps can't be predicted or planned for you still have to plan around the one year cycle but when you do get one you get to make new choices about what you want to do.

This is probably the only way that a truly random element could add meaningful choices to the game.

I've been doing my thing out in null, having fun with the corp, and I didn't realize until I got the notice on my phone's Eve app that my 20 day level V skill train is almost done.

Watching the skill train counter makes trains take longer.

If you are a pirate and generally not a nice person, you are free to do it. And I word it in a very caring way.

I am satisfied with how this thread has turned out. As expected, the diehard fans say that skills are not important, that real mastery, which is not measured in skill points, is what the game is all about yet they deny me the ability to get those “skills that don’t matter that much” in any way sooner than it is now. “We’ve spent years learning them, you must do the same and you will like it!”

And yet I’ve heard several voices in favor of changing the system albeit not on the scale I propose. And then there is an audience that never speaks up in pay2win arguments yet they make the decisions that matter in the end. They’ve read it, too. Or at least they will get excerpts with the juicy bits.

Too bad the average thinking does not have the reach to see the current time requirements of skill acquisition the way I do. Pavlov’s dogs must have thought like that: press button – get cookie. You get the next skill not sooner than CCP gives it to you. No amount of effort can get it done sooner. Changing the current way of life is perceived as a blasphemy. Some players even go as far as saying it will be the end of the world. That anyone will be able to fly titans and every single player will be mad enough to do so despite the quite reasonable fear of losing that much ISK.

You’ve had your fun. And I’ve had mine. I thank you for your attention! It’s been a pleasure getting to know those of you who can think out of the box and phrase it nicely.