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RLML Caracal Killer
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Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-06-12 13:18:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Squatdog
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Instead of trying to tank it, maybe consider damping/jamming it to the point where it can't target you?

RLML Caracals are downright scary to pretty much any frigate hull, especially if they have damage application rigs.



Any non-tard will be carrying a stack of FoFs that they will immediately switch to if confronted with ECM or damps.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#22 - 2014-06-12 13:28:28 UTC
Squatdog wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Instead of trying to tank it, maybe consider damping/jamming it to the point where it can't target you?

RLML Caracals are downright scary to pretty much any frigate hull, especially if they have damage application rigs.



Any non-tard will be carrying a stack of FoFs that they will immediately switch to if confronted with ECM or damps.


RLML need time to reload, so that is something to consider.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-06-12 14:02:13 UTC
I'm still wondering why there is a discussion of what frigate is the best to kill a purposely fit ship that put most of his eggs in the anti-frig basket. Why don't you just bring a cruiser which is better equipped to deal with a cruiser who downgraded his weapon system to hit smaller target?

What's the best vermin to use to attack an exterminator?
BA Rooster
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-06-12 23:15:53 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
I'm still wondering why there is a discussion of what frigate is the best to kill a purposely fit ship that put most of his eggs in the anti-frig basket. Why don't you just bring a cruiser which is better equipped to deal with a cruiser who downgraded his weapon system to hit smaller target?

What's the best vermin to use to attack an exterminator?


Because any of the Caracal pilots who have a clue will bail from a fleet fight the second a Stabber or Thorax shows up.

I want them to think they can take me in the AF BECAUSE they are fit to kill frigates.

DHB WildCat
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#25 - 2014-06-13 22:47:48 UTC
Garmur... its faster than the light missiles... so it will never take any damage. Game over.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-06-14 02:14:38 UTC
If you want to fly with links and pirate implants any active tanked af could do it, even a dualrep incursus. No need to pay for a garmur.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-06-14 08:29:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
Maeltstome wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Should the Caracal pilot have missile application implants, use Crash boosters, and/ or use rigor or flare rigs over shield rigs then sig tanking the damage may be a bit optimistic.

I prefer the RLML Bellicose over the Caracal tbh. My fit with two overheated target painters will apply full damage to an unlinked Enyo that isn't traveling faster then 5206 m/s.


Yes, they can fit those. Sacrificing tanking rigs though. Remeber an Enyo does post 300DPS... you NEED buffer. Most assault frigs are the same.

Also remember that you pulse the MWD, so your sig deflates while you are still moving at high speeds as a volley hits. Once you drop to below 1500ish you put it back on again. Little things like this make a big different when you are in a fight against a ship with only 20 charges of offence to shoot you with..

Again, not saying it's clean cut. i'm saying the Caracal can't AFK kill you by activate all modules if you play it properly.

Seeing as you are an Enyo I'd say the chances of you taking hits from Nova missiles is pretty high, your fit has an EHP of about 6.5k to straight up Explosive damage and with two T2 BCUs that Caracal has ~15,600 raw damage in those 20 charges. Even adjusted for damage mitigation and resists I think hoping to be alive is wishful thinking. That 6.5k EHP is already adjusted for resistance meaning from 100% shield to 0% structure you have about 6.5k health against that ~15,600. Granted the actual damage done will be less than 15.6k but I doubt you will mitigate anywhere close to 10k damage the way you're describing. Given that fully half of that EHP against Nova is also in structure and you need nearly triple the tank you have, the repper doesn't help your structure, so it isn't going to build a bridge to cross that ocean.

35 seconds sound like a long time to change ammo types but I've flown Cerbs a few times in an anti-support role and when I jump system I hit d-scan look for a target and swap damage if needed. You don't wait until you land on grid to start a reload. So if I were flying a Caracal and saw an Enyo on scan I would start reloading to Nova before even trying to narrow him down past the 360 degrees. By the time that fight starts, trust me I'm not fiddling with my reload. 90% of the time if someone has tackled a target I will be reloaded by the time I jump in and warp onto grid, if the warp is short I will be loaded a few seconds after landing. If I'm warping to the target myself I will be ready in time. Only around gates does swapping ammo become a significant factor for the critical opening moments. If I were to jump into that Enyo with Scourge loaded for example I would start the reload and burn for the gate and I'd have to be pretty unlucky to spawn close enough for the Enyo to be able to hold me off the gate. If you aggress I jump back out and reload on the other side before jumping back in. If you don't aggress then I see how far you will let me get away from you before I get out of jump range or jump out and back in depending on the gate and what you do.

This is all ignoring the fact that if you are letting your speed drop to 1500 m/s while chasing a Caracal before you turn your MWD back on you'll be losing ground, a Caracal with a meta 4 MWD and nothing else is just shy of 1900 m/s and he is definitely going to keep it running as long as you are closing.

Not to say it's impossible, the more you go overboard on implants and links the better your chances are but any fight against an RLML Caracal is going to be pretty rocky if you are bringing and frigate to the table. if you don't want to go to such lengths and are willing to fly something that is not a frigate an Omen or Nomen will turn that Caracal into scrap alarmingly fast.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#28 - 2014-06-14 16:56:39 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Should the Caracal pilot have missile application implants, use Crash boosters, and/ or use rigor or flare rigs over shield rigs then sig tanking the damage may be a bit optimistic.

I prefer the RLML Bellicose over the Caracal tbh. My fit with two overheated target painters will apply full damage to an unlinked Enyo that isn't traveling faster then 5206 m/s.


Yes, they can fit those. Sacrificing tanking rigs though. Remeber an Enyo does post 300DPS... you NEED buffer. Most assault frigs are the same.

Also remember that you pulse the MWD, so your sig deflates while you are still moving at high speeds as a volley hits. Once you drop to below 1500ish you put it back on again. Little things like this make a big different when you are in a fight against a ship with only 20 charges of offence to shoot you with..

Again, not saying it's clean cut. i'm saying the Caracal can't AFK kill you by activate all modules if you play it properly.

Seeing as you are an Enyo I'd say the chances of you taking hits from Nova missiles is pretty high, your fit has an EHP of about 6.5k to straight up Explosive damage and with two T2 BCUs that Caracal has ~15,600 raw damage in those 20 charges. Even adjusted for damage mitigation and resists I think hoping to be alive is wishful thinking. That 6.5k EHP is already adjusted for resistance meaning from 100% shield to 0% structure you have about 6.5k health against that ~15,600. Granted the actual damage done will be less than 15.6k but I doubt you will mitigate anywhere close to 10k damage the way you're describing. Given that fully half of that EHP against Nova is also in structure and you need nearly triple the tank you have, the repper doesn't help your structure, so it isn't going to build a bridge to cross that ocean.

35 seconds sound like a long time to change ammo types but I've flown Cerbs a few times in an anti-support role and when I jump system I hit d-scan look for a target and swap damage if needed. You don't wait until you land on grid to start a reload. So if I were flying a Caracal and saw an Enyo on scan I would start reloading to Nova before even trying to narrow him down past the 360 degrees. By the time that fight starts, trust me I'm not fiddling with my reload. 90% of the time if someone has tackled a target I will be reloaded by the time I jump in and warp onto grid, if the warp is short I will be loaded a few seconds after landing. If I'm warping to the target myself I will be ready in time. Only around gates does swapping ammo become a significant factor for the critical opening moments. If I were to jump into that Enyo with Scourge loaded for example I would start the reload and burn for the gate and I'd have to be pretty unlucky to spawn close enough for the Enyo to be able to hold me off the gate. If you aggress I jump back out and reload on the other side before jumping back in. If you don't aggress then I see how far you will let me get away from you before I get out of jump range or jump out and back in depending on the gate and what you do.

This is all ignoring the fact that if you are letting your speed drop to 1500 m/s while chasing a Caracal before you turn your MWD back on you'll be losing ground, a Caracal with a meta 4 MWD and nothing else is just shy of 1900 m/s and he is definitely going to keep it running as long as you are closing.

Not to say it's impossible, the more you go overboard on implants and links the better your chances are but any fight against an RLML Caracal is going to be pretty rocky if you are bringing and frigate to the table. if you don't want to go to such lengths and are willing to fly something that is not a frigate an Omen or Nomen will turn that Caracal into scrap alarmingly fast.


Unless the caracal already has nova's loaded there is precious little chance of getting a reload off in the middle of an AF trying to tackle you.
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