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[Crius] Little things from Team Super Friends

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Author
Intrepid Crossing
#81 - 2014-06-11 01:04:04 UTC
Cool !!
Quantum Cafe
#82 - 2014-06-11 01:13:25 UTC
Awesome!

I am also playing with the new industry interface and am loving it.

Two things off the bat:

1) Please allow a drag/drop action so I can put BPs in my hangar directly into the window.
When you complete an action or just open the window with nothing selected, you get a very enticing square graphic with nice little inviting blue running lights.

It is practically BEGGING for you to drag and drop a BP into it. Was very sad not to be able to. It seemed like such a natural action, I tired it again a few times in the hope it was just buggy.

2) Industrial sounds based on action. I heard some, but it needs to be taken up a notch.

Other than that, looks awesome!

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite

Caldari State
#83 - 2014-06-11 01:33:34 UTC
First update is a great one, i love it.
But what about skill requirements for t2 rigs? That stuff is fully useless now? (I mean only fitting requirements by 4lvl skill, not drawback reduction).
Triumvirate.
#84 - 2014-06-11 03:55:23 UTC
How about we make rigs like ships in the fact that the bonuses they give are based on the skill levels of the capsuleer rather then just the drawbacks. This makes it possible for all to fit t2 mods, but only those with the previously required skills can receive the full bonus from the rigs.


Caldari State
#85 - 2014-06-11 04:20:07 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Elly Artrald wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Hi,

CoolFit modules without the required skillCool
Good for those massfitting ships for other people. You can now fit modules without having the required skills but you cannot online them. When you undock in a ship with modules you don't have skills for, you will get a warning (suppressible) saying that you can't online some of your modules because of lacking skills.


Is this also true for rigs?


You can also fit rigs


The difference with fitting modules on a ship [when you don't have the skills to use the mods] and fitting rigs on a ship [when you don't have the skills to "use" the rigs] is that the modules WONT WORK when you undock. THE RIGS WILL. I have had a friend put T2 rigs on a ship for me and it was VERY helpful, BUT to give every player the ability to EASILY put on T2 rigs AND GET THE BONUSES of T2 rigs seems like something that was not intended.

Having a friend or a service put on rigs for you is one thing, doing it yourself [without the "necessary" skills] is something very different.

The Mittani of House GoonWaffe, First of His name, King of the Goons and VFK, Master of griefing, Lord of the CFC, Warden of the West, and Protector of Deklein.

Caldari State
#86 - 2014-06-11 05:26:25 UTC
Can you remove the need to readvertise fleet everytime you add a new person to watchlist. (when u are fleet boss)

We hunt in small gangs in W space and are constantly adding potential targets to watchlist. Its a major pain to have to click through 3 fleet advertisment dialog boxes everytime we update the watchlist. I assume its something to do with standing as standings change when add a person to watchlist.

TLDR - Remove the need to readvertise fleet when u make a watchlist/ standing change.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2014-06-11 06:49:35 UTC
Sweet Jesus, I wanna just stab ppl who whine because they spent a lil bit of time training a skill to profit off of others and when that goes away they cry. Some ppl just can't accept a nice gift and move on. I am not sitting here screaming for a refund for my scrap metal skill, nor am I gonna cry cause I have a toon that trained almost every rig skill to 4 so I could rig my own boats, or my friends.

All of this whining is absolutely childish, and unless there are game balance issues, there should be none of it going on. As for noobs in T2, there was a comment about needing the skill at lev 1 to fit a rig. Also for those of you upset about said noob using T2, just think about the juice KMs that ship will bring cause he fit T2 rigs to fit his crap ship and ended up having a costly ship that still can't match a proper T2 fit.

As for uping the drawbacks, that is just dumb, that penalizes everyone in the game who never skilled rigs cause their m8 added them all for the corp for the last 4 yrs, but now cause anyone can fit them, everyone gets screwed. This makes no sense, and falls back on ppl just complaining for the shear need to be heard.

Sorry if this seems rude or such, but tired of all the ppl who can't leave good alone and have to make it mediocre cause they can't enjoy it.
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2014-06-11 09:28:26 UTC
Love all the changes, including rigs. I think the suggested changes to them are fine as-is.
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#89 - 2014-06-11 09:35:01 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Hi,

so far we have two new very nice little things for you

CoolFlag exempt from fleet warp Cool
Good for scouts and people in Titans (I guess).. you can now flag yourself exempt from fleet warp. Nice little icon is added next to your name, so the rest of the people in fleet know why you don't follow into fleet warp. If you change your mind, you can switch back to the default setting of following to fleet warp.


Ah sweet. Very useful. Thank you.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

#90 - 2014-06-11 15:25:08 UTC
Given the possible need to move around more with the industry landscape, and the inability to remotely install blueprints at a POS is there any chance of getting some attention to the corp voting mechanics or the ability to lock down/unlock groups of blueprints using a single vote?

For the voting UI it would be nice if each vote didn't collapse every time you cast a vote. It makes it almost impossible to track large numbers of votes at one time the way it currently is.
C C P Alliance
#91 - 2014-06-11 15:46:23 UTC
Regarding rig fitting, the skill requirement has never made a whole lot of sense there as it can so easily be bypassed by simply having another character fitting the ship for you. So we want these new changes to apply to rigs as well. The long term plan for having the skills be more meaningful is to increase the drawback, but increase the effectiveness of the skills in reducing the drawback, similar to some of you have been suggesting. This change would also involve giving drawback to rigs that don't currently have any drawback (like the Ancillary Current Routers). The Jury Rigging skill can probably remain as is, as it is requirement for other skills and used in production. This change will not happen in Crius, but sometimes in the following releases.
Triumvirate.
#92 - 2014-06-11 15:50:56 UTC
Mai Ling Ravencroft wrote:
Sweet Jesus, I wanna just stab ppl who whine because they spent a lil bit of time training a skill to profit off of others and when that goes away they cry. Some ppl just can't accept a nice gift and move on. I am not sitting here screaming for a refund for my scrap metal skill, nor am I gonna cry cause I have a toon that trained almost every rig skill to 4 so I could rig my own boats, or my friends.

All of this whining is absolutely childish, and unless there are game balance issues, there should be none of it going on. As for noobs in T2, there was a comment about needing the skill at lev 1 to fit a rig. Also for those of you upset about said noob using T2, just think about the juice KMs that ship will bring cause he fit T2 rigs to fit his crap ship and ended up having a costly ship that still can't match a proper T2 fit.

As for uping the drawbacks, that is just dumb, that penalizes everyone in the game who never skilled rigs cause their m8 added them all for the corp for the last 4 yrs, but now cause anyone can fit them, everyone gets screwed. This makes no sense, and falls back on ppl just complaining for the shear need to be heard.

Sorry if this seems rude or such, but tired of all the ppl who can't leave good alone and have to make it mediocre cause they can't enjoy it.


I have never profited from fitting a rig for another player, ever. I don't know where on earth you got the idea that the people who say this isn't a good idea are looking out for their own pockets.

I'm frankly not even going to bother addressing the rest of your post, because threats written in a childish and practically unreadable way aren't the kind of discussion that should be taking place.
Triumvirate.
#93 - 2014-06-11 15:58:46 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding rig fitting, the skill requirement has never made a whole lot of sense there as it can so easily be bypassed by simply having another character fitting the ship for you. So we want these new changes to apply to rigs as well. The long term plan for having the skills be more meaningful is to increase the drawback, but increase the effectiveness of the skills in reducing the drawback, similar to some of you have been suggesting. This change would also involve giving drawback to rigs that don't currently have any drawback (like the Ancillary Current Routers). The Jury Rigging skill can probably remain as is, as it is requirement for other skills and used in production. This change will not happen in Crius, but sometimes in the following releases.


That's disappointing to hear, because the interaction between players of being able to fit rigs and swap ships about was a very unique thing and I think it did add to the game in some minor way. There's no point in removing that - bypassing the skill requirement through having friends and teamwork isn't the same thing as not having it at all, and I'm frankly shocked that CCP is looking at it that way. I thought this game was all about player-player interaction.

The change in the drawbacks is something, though it's not an idea that sits well with me. Jury Rigging is going to need to be changed, for sure, since it doesn't actually have any kind of drawback reduction, so if you're adding drawbacks to the engineering rigs then you'll need to change the skill to match, and you don't seem to have acknowledged that fact.

It's going to create a lot of balancing questions, like what do you add as drawbacks, as well as breaking a number of fits in order to make a change that doesn't really need to be made. Where will the break even point be that will result in the same drawback as there is currently? Level IV? Level III?

I will also say that making the skills not required now and saying you'll fix it later really smacks of a few other iffy decisions in the past, like the period between the skill changes for T1 industrials and when the industrials were actually rebalanced, when every hauler that wasn't the Iteron V was made worthless for a period of time. Changes like this should be thought through and brought in together, not done in bits and pieces.
Triumvirate.
#94 - 2014-06-11 15:59:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Erasmus Phoenix
(Double post, ignore me)
#95 - 2014-06-11 16:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Tesla
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding rig fitting, the skill requirement has never made a whole lot of sense there as it can so easily be bypassed by simply having another character fitting the ship for you. So we want these new changes to apply to rigs as well. The long term plan for having the skills be more meaningful is to increase the drawback, but increase the effectiveness of the skills in reducing the drawback, similar to some of you have been suggesting. This change would also involve giving drawback to rigs that don't currently have any drawback (like the Ancillary Current Routers). The Jury Rigging skill can probably remain as is, as it is requirement for other skills and used in production. This change will not happen in Crius, but sometimes in the following releases.


Not a particular fan of the change and doesn't feel like a "Little Thing" if it is going to possibly end up breaking fits. With that said, it isn't a game-breaker, but I have an alternate suggestion.

If it were possible, I think a far more interesting approach would be for rigging to become a specialty service, something akin to reprocessing (probably not a perfect corollary since reprocessing skills are inexplicably required to use mining crystals, but I think it makes sense to a degree). Generally, indy corps are going to have one or two folks with really good reprocessing skills and standings to maximize their reprocessing capability. I think it would be interesting if they had a Corp Rigger who "tuned" the corp fleet and was far more capable at it than line members.

As it currently stands, the skills required to produce, fit, and fly a rigged ship effectively are interchangeable: Jury Rigging and the X Rigging skills. Because they are all intertwined, there isn't really a space for a specialist to operate. I think if you wanted to make more meaningful interchange between players, you could tie the drawback penalty to the rigger rather than the pilot. I don't really understand the mechanics of the underlying code, so I have no clue if a ship can gain a flag of some sort based on being fit with a rig by a certain skill-leveled individual. But if it could, pilots wouldn't need to train the skills to benefit from rigs and it would incentivize riggers to train their skills to max capability so they can offer their "lowest drawback" services to pilots.

Just my thoughts and only applicable if we're talking about making more than a "Little Thing" change to Rigging.

Head Rigger In Charge

Triumvirate.
#96 - 2014-06-11 16:22:02 UTC
Actually, that is a really good point. It goes beyond a "Little thing" when you're talking about rebalancing modules and skills.
Caldari State
#97 - 2014-06-11 16:36:10 UTC
You didn't really ask for unrelated suggestions in the OP but given its a "little things" thread I'd still like to make one.

Can we please have the option of viewing and displaying tracking speed of modules in angular velocity rather than radial velocity? Angular speed is already there in the overview why is it not on my guns? Deg/sec is a nicer unit than Rad/sec in certain cases. This being one of those cases.
Badfellas Inc.
#98 - 2014-06-11 16:50:45 UTC
Mai Ling Ravencroft wrote:
Sweet Jesus, I wanna just stab ppl who whine because they spent a lil bit of time training a skill to profit off of others and when that goes away they cry. Some ppl just can't accept a nice gift and move on. I am not sitting here screaming for a refund for my scrap metal skill, nor am I gonna cry cause I have a toon that trained almost every rig skill to 4 so I could rig my own boats, or my friends.

All of this whining is absolutely childish, and unless there are game balance issues, there should be none of it going on. As for noobs in T2, there was a comment about needing the skill at lev 1 to fit a rig. Also for those of you upset about said noob using T2, just think about the juice KMs that ship will bring cause he fit T2 rigs to fit his crap ship and ended up having a costly ship that still can't match a proper T2 fit.

As for uping the drawbacks, that is just dumb, that penalizes everyone in the game who never skilled rigs cause their m8 added them all for the corp for the last 4 yrs, but now cause anyone can fit them, everyone gets screwed. This makes no sense, and falls back on ppl just complaining for the shear need to be heard.

Sorry if this seems rude or such, but tired of all the ppl who can't leave good alone and have to make it mediocre cause they can't enjoy it.


Perhaps you should see a counselor about therapy sometime, because it seems rather clear that you are suppressing some emotional issues that cause you to become irrationally upset when you see people pointing out a flaw/oversight in game mechanics changes. But allow me to break it down regardless


  • There is no reason to ask for a refund for the scrap metal reprocessing skill, because the skill still affects refines
  • Training skills to profit others is a large fundamental part of the Eve Economic Simulator
  • Invalidating completely the point in training a number of skills is not a 'gift', simply a misinformed decision
  • Someone mentions that there be a drawback to all rigs unless you train up a skill, and out come your own tears. Hypocritical, much?
  • I agree with you, 'good should be left alone', and not changed so that t2 rigs can be implemented without any skills, or a simple level 1.
Badfellas Inc.
#99 - 2014-06-11 16:56:37 UTC
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding rig fitting, the skill requirement has never made a whole lot of sense there as it can so easily be bypassed by simply having another character fitting the ship for you. So we want these new changes to apply to rigs as well. The long term plan for having the skills be more meaningful is to increase the drawback, but increase the effectiveness of the skills in reducing the drawback, similar to some of you have been suggesting. This change would also involve giving drawback to rigs that don't currently have any drawback (like the Ancillary Current Routers). The Jury Rigging skill can probably remain as is, as it is requirement for other skills and used in production. This change will not happen in Crius, but sometimes in the following releases.


That's disappointing to hear, because the interaction between players of being able to fit rigs and swap ships about was a very unique thing and I think it did add to the game in some minor way. There's no point in removing that - bypassing the skill requirement through having friends and teamwork isn't the same thing as not having it at all, and I'm frankly shocked that CCP is looking at it that way. I thought this game was all about player-player interaction.

The change in the drawbacks is something, though it's not an idea that sits well with me. Jury Rigging is going to need to be changed, for sure, since it doesn't actually have any kind of drawback reduction, so if you're adding drawbacks to the engineering rigs then you'll need to change the skill to match, and you don't seem to have acknowledged that fact.

It's going to create a lot of balancing questions, like what do you add as drawbacks, as well as breaking a number of fits in order to make a change that doesn't really need to be made. Where will the break even point be that will result in the same drawback as there is currently? Level IV? Level III?

I will also say that making the skills not required now and saying you'll fix it later really smacks of a few other iffy decisions in the past, like the period between the skill changes for T1 industrials and when the industrials were actually rebalanced, when every hauler that wasn't the Iteron V was made worthless for a period of time. Changes like this should be thought through and brought in together, not done in bits and pieces.


This summarizes my thoughts very well on Soniclover's post. It brings a strong feeling of 'we're okay with breaking this, even though we acknowledge that it is a bad decision, because we will fix it down the road'. Or, you could just leave it as is, in a way that actually works well.
#100 - 2014-06-11 17:32:44 UTC
One thing regarding fitting ships, if I want to move say a gun turret to another high slot from another high slot and there are no gun slots left, it won't let me move it. Could we have that particular restriction removed?
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