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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Corp shares market (a.k.a stock exchange)
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Quant Predictorian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-06-10 09:29:52 UTC
I know this topic may have discussed million times before. I just wanted to open a new thread in order to see if anything is changed and/or any new hope for a stable corp share market with derivatives included.

Investor, ancap, correspondence chess player, Fischer random fan (http://www.chess959.com)
Saint Germain
Sekundu
#2 - 2014-06-10 09:33:14 UTC
Being able to trade shares directly for ISK, or list them on the market (or a new market just for shares) would be a start.
Quant Predictorian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-06-10 09:44:23 UTC
Do we really need CCP to establish such a corp shares market? Can't we start our brand new exchange where the corp shares traded? Idea is simple:

1. Create a corp named ....... Stock Exchange,
2. Hire someone to make a platform about corp shares trading (it may be in-game or out of it)
3. Invite corporations to join the exchange,
4. Find market makers to create liquidity
5. Hire market analysts
6. so on....

Investor, ancap, correspondence chess player, Fischer random fan (http://www.chess959.com)
oohthey ioh
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-06-10 09:53:35 UTC
There no point real point in eve online.
Saint Germain
Sekundu
#5 - 2014-06-10 09:57:28 UTC
Quant Predictorian wrote:
Do we really need CCP to establish such a corp shares market?.


I think so. It's not just the issue of needing trusted parties to handle share transfers, but the hassle and time delay involved. Why not have a shares market built into the game?
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#6 - 2014-06-10 10:09:04 UTC
More ways to legitimately scam people outright.

+ 1 million Cool

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-06-10 10:13:51 UTC
RL corps exist (almost exclusively) to make money ... EVE corps exist for many different reasons

RL stock exchange is based on trust because of international law, auditors, SEC, etc. ... in EVE there are very few, if any, mechanics to enable trust among strangers


so it wouldn't really work, UNLESS CCP introduces some kind of 'Financial Corp' feature including practical, effective and unexploitable mechanics to insure, say, at least 70-80% of investors' ISK.

any ideas for that? requiring an escrow wouldn't really work, for example, since it would be pointless to ask for ISK if you already have it!

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
oohthey ioh
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-06-10 10:15:59 UTC
the only time I see them used in eve is to fun for CEO or Paying the miners, and even then a little pointless might as well pay with isk.

making a unofficial system for it is pointless, if you want this to happen you need proper in depth game mechanic, with a lot of work put in to this. If you want this you will have to design a system, piont out all the flaws and positives with it, prove to them that it will work and there is a demand for it.

guessing it's on the to do list, but probably won't be done for a long time, they are fixing major problems with the game, while adding minor updates.

It would be nice if they give out share as for things like killmails, doing indy jobs or giving ore to the corp. and be able to trade them in, especially mercenary corps could benefit form it.

Corps could benefit form it, Can't see this going to happen any time soon. i want it to happen.

sorry for grammer.
Quant Predictorian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-06-10 10:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Quant Predictorian
Saint Germain wrote:
It's not just the issue of needing trusted parties to handle share transfers, but the hassle and time delay involved. Why not have a shares market built into the game?


EVE is a real sandbox game which means we should be able to create whatever we can. The hassle and time delay could be solved by creative thinking and innovation made by project owners. The project I'm talking about require smart people who wants to be a part of this exchange. We can do this. Is it an utopia?

Investor, ancap, correspondence chess player, Fischer random fan (http://www.chess959.com)
Luna McCoy
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-06-10 10:34:01 UTC
Quant Predictorian wrote:
The project I'm talking about require smart people who wants to be a part of this exchange.
Implying that anyone is who doesn't see the necessity to own shares in a corp, without membership of it, is stupid, is hardly the way to win endorsement of your idea.
Quant Predictorian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-06-10 10:36:01 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
RL corps exist (almost exclusively) to make money ... EVE corps exist for many different reasons

RL stock exchange is based on trust because of international law, auditors, SEC, etc. ... in EVE there are very few, if any, mechanics to enable trust among strangers


so it wouldn't really work, UNLESS CCP introduces some kind of 'Financial Corp' feature including practical, effective and unexploitable mechanics to insure, say, at least 70-80% of investors' ISK.

any ideas for that? requiring an escrow wouldn't really work, for example, since it would be pointless to ask for ISK if you already have it!


Every corporation like to have more ISK. Also this exchange project is not fully about profits but brand awareness and networking as well. How is this? your corporation is listed on EVE 30 exchange could be very similar to DJ in RL.

Investor, ancap, correspondence chess player, Fischer random fan (http://www.chess959.com)
Quant Predictorian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-06-10 10:41:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Quant Predictorian
Luna McCoy wrote:
Quant Predictorian wrote:
The project I'm talking about require smart people who wants to be a part of this exchange.
Implying that anyone is who doesn't see the necessity to own shares in a corp, without membership of it, is stupid, is hardly the way to win endorsement of your idea.


Totally agree on this. Labelling someone with something is not a good idea in EVE. Please remove all the labels I put on my previous message and read it again.

Finally: can we do this project or not? That's the question. I'm quite sure that demand will be huge not because of scammers paradise, but corp CEOs egos and other things will be played out decisively.

Investor, ancap, correspondence chess player, Fischer random fan (http://www.chess959.com)
Sigras
Conglomo
#13 - 2014-06-10 17:33:54 UTC
Quant Predictorian wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
RL corps exist (almost exclusively) to make money ... EVE corps exist for many different reasons

RL stock exchange is based on trust because of international law, auditors, SEC, etc. ... in EVE there are very few, if any, mechanics to enable trust among strangers


so it wouldn't really work, UNLESS CCP introduces some kind of 'Financial Corp' feature including practical, effective and unexploitable mechanics to insure, say, at least 70-80% of investors' ISK.

any ideas for that? requiring an escrow wouldn't really work, for example, since it would be pointless to ask for ISK if you already have it!


Every corporation like to have more ISK. Also this exchange project is not fully about profits but brand awareness and networking as well. How is this? your corporation is listed on EVE 30 exchange could be very similar to DJ in RL.

While this is true, I feel like you're downplaying the trust issues that come with a game such as Eve.

In real life when you empty the corp wallet into your own bank account, the FBI comes and throws you in jail for embezzling money. In New Eden when you do it they make a promotional video about it and use it as a draw to the game
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#14 - 2014-06-10 18:38:11 UTC
If you want an ingame stock exchange I suggest an LP market. Then we can bet on the success/failure of FW and other NPC corporations. The fluxuations would come as certain items become more or less popular. An example would be SoE ships were announced SoE LP prices spiked. The LP would be open to buying, selling, trading, manipulation, and scamming.

Other than that there really isn't much need to have tens of thousands of individual corporations shares on the market. I have a feeling very few people would use the feature as it would mean yielding control of the corporation. Google Titans4U to see why no one would do this.
Wallace Warmkestle
Glitterforge Adult Daycare Services
Keys Network
#15 - 2014-06-10 20:22:20 UTC
I think this could be achieved in a simple way (and I'm sure somebody else, somewhere probably proposed something similar) but here goes:

  1. Give corps the option of going public or staying private.
  2. Private corps could only have a max of say 10 share holders if they exceed this number they automatically become public.
  3. Poor corps could raise money by seeking out early investors.
  4. Shareholders would vote on how many shares to issue, when to split etc.
  5. Give shareholders an option to vote on the size and frequency of dividends paid out to shareholders from the corporate wallet or a specific wallet set aside for shareholder dividends.
  6. Shareholders could vote to change corp policy and tax rates.
  7. For public companies the current wallet size and history of dividend payouts is all available as well as helpful line graphs.


With those basic principles or some variations of that you could then allow all players to buy/sell/short/cover on any public corp stock.

I also like the gameplay mechanic introduced where greedy shareholders could raise the tax rate or take all the funds for dividend payouts, all the corp members jump ship and their stock is worth nothing or the opposite.

Also - allow corporations to own shares. This way you could have 'funds' or investor corps that other players or corporations could buy into.