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Why u should not buy the EVE Second decade collectors edition for PLEX

Author
Yuki Kasumi
Some names are just stupid
#1 - 2014-05-27 09:31:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Yuki Kasumi
Hello everyone,

This is my account of why you should not buy the eve collectors edition for PLEXes. I tried to and got burned because of it, so I would like to tell the story so that others may be more fortunate. This applies to countries that charge tax on import, rules may vary depending on your country. TL:DR You probably have to pay tax/VAT twice and then some.

As most of you know you can now order the EVE Second decade collectors edition for PLEXes. This costs a total of 12 PLEXes which 2 of them are for shipping. In according to Musterbrand CCPs distributor there are different prices for a collector edition bought for PLEXes and one bought for hard cash.

https://store.eve.com/collector-s-edition/eve-the-second-decade-collector-s-edition-116

Lists the collectors edition to cost 86 EUR including VAT and excluding shipping. Adding shipping gets you up to 100 EUR. If you purchase the CE for PLEXes Musterbrand will have you "charged" 132 EUR. This is because they assume that you have bought the PLEXes for real money and then used them to purchase the CE. Why you would ever do such a thing is beyond me though, as it is more expensive than purchasing it straight up.

Their math is something like this: 12 PLEXes at 11 EUR each = 132 EUR. So they approximate the price of a PLEX and use this to calculate the "value" of the CE, then they print you an invoice saying either 132EUR or 110 EUR if you can deduct VAT (outside EU). Even if you can deduct VAT you still pay the same price in PLEXes though. For me the country's equivalent of VAT is then added (25%) when the package goes through customs, this is 27.5 EUR.

Personally I had not given the fact that I would be charged tax a second thought when ordering, thinking in my ignorance that I was not paying for this item with real money. I agree that someone paid for this item and that I as such should get taxed for it in retrospect, however the evaluation of the value of the item is off the railings. You should not expect any support from CCP in this as they have outsourced the entire store to Musterbrand. Musterbrand refuses to budge on the subject. My last attempt is to have the package returned so that I may be refunded.

This is sad to me because I would have really liked to have the collectors edition, especially the artwork book in my shelf, but I refuse to pay double VAT (once charged in PLEXes and once in real cash) and more because Musterbrand has troubles evaluating their products. I think it is great that CCP have the option to pay with PLEXes however the implementation leaves something to be desired (it sucks).

*Rant end*

Feel free to comment and/or tell me how ignorant I was for not seeing this coming.
Yuki Kasumi
Some names are just stupid
#2 - 2014-05-28 22:04:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Yuki Kasumi
So this is it, I have exhausted all options. CCP thinks it is fair for customers outside of EU to pay VAT twice and that Musterbrand raises the list price on items bought for Plex. Musterbrand accepts returns however I would have to pay around 40 EUR in return shipping (due to the heavy package) to get refunded 10 Plex (2 lost on shipping). So I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. I hope that anyone that considers buying the EVE Second collectors edition for PLEX will read this and maybe think twice. I certainly will not buy any more real life items given what I know now.
Phantomite
The Congregation
Same Great Taste
#3 - 2014-05-29 00:08:13 UTC
Are you complaining about CCP or about international tax law
Yuki Kasumi
Some names are just stupid
#4 - 2014-05-29 06:08:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Yuki Kasumi
Phantomite wrote:
Are you complaining about CCP or about international tax law


CCP and Musterbrand. Can't change the tax law, it would not have cost CCP much to do this properly. They chose not to do so. I have ordered a lot of packages internationally, this is the first time I have ever encountered issues like these.

EDIT: To clarify, I will happily pay my taxes but I have never before encountered a company / store that marks items at a higher price depending on your payment option or that deducts VAT and puts it in their own pockets.
seany1212
Drunkendis Order
#5 - 2014-05-29 06:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: seany1212
So you're complaining about purchasing a 100 euro item for free because you've been playing a game enough that they've given you this item, and now you've had to pay import taxes on it..?

CCP are entitled to charge you as many PLEX as they like for payment of the item as at the end of the day it's their currency, they don't expect people to be stupid enough to buy PLEX with a credit card and then purchase the Collectors Edition when it's clearly cheaper just to purchase the Collectors Edition directly, and they just aren't choosing to pay your countries VAT, and why should they? It's not there responsibility to it's yours.

I guess some people do want something for nothing these days...


EDIT: a word.
Yuki Kasumi
Some names are just stupid
#6 - 2014-05-29 07:07:22 UTC
seany1212 wrote:
So you're complaining about purchasing a 100 euro item for free because you've been playing a game enough that they've given you this item, and now you've had to pay import taxes on it..?

CCP are entitled to charge you as many PLEX as they like for payment of the item as at the end of the day it's their currency, they don't expect people to be stupid enough to buy PLEX with a credit card and then purchase the Collectors Edition when it's clearly cheaper just to purchase the Collectors Edition directly, and they just aren't choosing to pay your countries VAT, and why should they? It's not there responsibility to it's yours.

I guess some people do want something for nothing these days...


EDIT: a word.


Actually as I have been repeatedly reminded by CCP and alike I am not purchasing this item for free. I am in fact paying some other guy with my effort in game so that he may purchase it for me.

Sure, not paying VAT in my country is their choice, having me pay VAT through PLEX and pocketing the difference is not. Had this been any other currency exchange this would have been unlawful.

Paying tax to my country is my obligation, correct. Valuing the items I purchased correctly based on market value and shipping is theirs and marking items up because of choice of payment option is just bad practice.

Do try to keep the trolling down please and discussion at a sensible level. If you fail to do so I will report your post as such.

Sir Livingston
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-05-30 02:54:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Livingston
In which country do you live?

I live in the USA.

Two weeks ago I purchased a collector's edition for 12 PLEX. I received it 5-6 days after I placed the order.
I was charged 12 PLEX. No other charges were made.

It was shipped from Georgia, a state in the USA.

Sci-fi games as played by an earthbound human in the 21st century http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew

seany1212
Drunkendis Order
#8 - 2014-05-30 07:03:08 UTC
Yuki Kasumi wrote:
seany1212 wrote:
So you're complaining about purchasing a 100 euro item for free because you've been playing a game enough that they've given you this item, and now you've had to pay import taxes on it..?

CCP are entitled to charge you as many PLEX as they like for payment of the item as at the end of the day it's their currency, they don't expect people to be stupid enough to buy PLEX with a credit card and then purchase the Collectors Edition when it's clearly cheaper just to purchase the Collectors Edition directly, and they just aren't choosing to pay your countries VAT, and why should they? It's not there responsibility to it's yours.

I guess some people do want something for nothing these days...


EDIT: a word.


Actually as I have been repeatedly reminded by CCP and alike I am not purchasing this item for free. I am in fact paying some other guy with my effort in game so that he may purchase it for me.

Sure, not paying VAT in my country is their choice, having me pay VAT through PLEX and pocketing the difference is not. Had this been any other currency exchange this would have been unlawful.

Paying tax to my country is my obligation, correct. Valuing the items I purchased correctly based on market value and shipping is theirs and marking items up because of choice of payment option is just bad practice.

Do try to keep the trolling down please and discussion at a sensible level. If you fail to do so I will report your post as such.



Except he is not purchasing YOUR collectors edition, he is purchasing a PLEX in order to further his or her own gameplay. You purchased an in-game item which allowed you (generously by CCP i may add) to be gifted an out of game item.

CCP wrote:
* Price includes VAT for all orders inside the European Union.
All orders outside of the European Union will not be charged VAT on this product at checkout.
Price excl. Shipping costs.


as quoted per their store, they explicitly state before you purchase that if you are outside the EU then VAT is not included in the payment, do you feel international import/export laws do not apply to you?

Feel free to report the post, nothing written here has been a 'trolling' attempt Roll
Yuki Kasumi
Some names are just stupid
#9 - 2014-05-30 07:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Yuki Kasumi
Sir Livingston wrote:
In which country do you live?

I live in the USA.

Two weeks ago I purchased a collector's edition for 12 PLEX. I received it 5-6 days after I placed the order.
I was charged 12 PLEX. No other charges were made.

It was shipped from Georgia, a state in the USA.


I live in a country in Europe outside EU, this is probably part of the reason for these issues.

seany1212 wrote:


Except he is not purchasing YOUR collectors edition, he is purchasing a PLEX in order to further his or her own gameplay. You purchased an in-game item which allowed you (generously by CCP i may add) to be gifted an out of game item.



This is what I would have assumed too. Investigation into this matter has caused me to reconsider this, as both Musterbrand and CCP handles it as if he had bought it for me. When the item is shipped I am given an invoice as if I had purchased the PLEXes myself, this in turns means that it is considered by CCP as if the purchaser of the PLEXes has transferred these to me before I can pay with them. Effectively I am paying some other guy to buy the collectors edition for me (in ISK) and CCP is not giving me any free gifts as reflected by the invoice.

seany1212 wrote:


CCP wrote:
* Price includes VAT for all orders inside the European Union.
All orders outside of the European Union will not be charged VAT on this product at checkout.
Price excl. Shipping costs.


as quoted per their store, they explicitly state before you purchase that if you are outside the EU then VAT is not included in the payment, do you feel international import/export laws do not apply to you?

Feel free to report the post, nothing written here has been a 'trolling' attempt Roll


That would be great if it was true, that VAT was not included for my country. The fact is: VAT was included. I paid12 PLEX, the same as any person inside EU would have. After purchase they then deduct the VAT from the invoice (for bookkeeping I presume) but I am not refunded the different. When the package goes through customs in my country I am then charged (as I should be) my country's VAT equivalent. I have now effectively paid VAT once in PLEX and once in cash to my country's customs.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#10 - 2014-05-30 15:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Yuki Kasumi wrote:
EDIT: To clarify, I will happily pay my taxes but I have never before encountered a company / store that marks items at a higher price depending on your payment option or that deducts VAT and puts it in their own pockets.


its actually quite common to be charged extra for different payment methods. using a credit card incurs a 2.5% surcharge, using cheques also incur charges.

its also common that the charges are to cover currency exchange in different countries, but you didnt use cash you used plexes which you purchased from the market which cost you nothing, so you really got a free product regardless of who originally paid for the plexes. you also pay more for buying plexes from the market which work out to be 50% more than paying the subscription cost to the game (people who plex for free game = cost of plex £15, cost of subscription = £10) so there is another example of different payments costing different amounts

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Yuki Kasumi
Some names are just stupid
#11 - 2014-05-30 18:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Yuki Kasumi
Lan Wang wrote:

its actually quite common to be charged extra for different payment methods. using a credit card incurs a 2.5% surcharge, using cheques also incur charges.

its also common that the charges are to cover currency exchange in different countries, but you didnt use cash you used plexes which you purchased from the market which cost you nothing, so you really got a free product regardless of who originally paid for the plexes. you also pay more for buying plexes from the market which work out to be 50% more than paying the subscription cost to the game (people who plex for free game = cost of plex £15, cost of subscription = £10) so there is another example of different payments costing different amounts


Good examples, I agree that a markup may be in order. Converting to PLEX using their evaluation they have valued the CE at 132 EUR including VAT and shipping for customers in the EU. This is a 32% increase compared to the 100 EUR you could get it for paying cash. This I was aware of and frankly do not mind. I think CCP is awesome for allowing payment in PLEX (as mentioned in the first post). My problem is with the VAT that I paid and that got deducted from the invoice without being refunded (another 20%).
Sergeant Dashing
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#12 - 2014-06-01 06:31:27 UTC
You're buying an expensive item for free... with fake money you've made in a game

I would say some nasty things, but ill stop myself. Stop complaining you ungratefulPOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOops
Yuki Kasumi
Some names are just stupid
#13 - 2014-06-01 07:54:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Yuki Kasumi
Sergeant Dashing wrote:
You're buying an expensive item for free... with fake money you've made in a game

I would say some nasty things, but ill stop myself. Stop complaining you ungratefulPOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOopsOops


Thats the problem, this is what I thought at first too. Talking to customs, CCP and Musterbrand leads me to believe otherwise. To add to it, I have a receipt from customs for the VAT I paid, this item was definitely not free :)

EDIT: Oh and your on the line of what I could actually report for flaming, stay on the right side please.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#14 - 2014-06-07 09:22:38 UTC
actually your home country should incometax your income from that value you bought by isk.

so taxing should be even more than you encountered.

And plex value can be different on euroes, depends how or where you buy those.
Yuki Kasumi
Some names are just stupid
#15 - 2014-06-08 19:56:16 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
actually your home country should incometax your income from that value you bought by isk.


Sure, just as long as they let me pay for government services such as water and other utilities with my hard earned "money" too :)

Bad Messenger wrote:
And plex value can be different on euroes, depends how or where you buy those.


Yes, they are estimating the PLEX value.


coolzero
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-06-09 20:31:31 UTC
"12 PLEXes at 11 EUR"

lord i wish they where 11€ a plex.