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Ditch NPC Police (not CONCORD)

Author
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-06-08 21:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Gully Alex Foyle
Simple suggestion, really.

Ditch NPC police attacking negative sec status players in highsec.

Instead, make negative sec status players legal targets in highsec, maintaining the current progression (-2.0 in 1.0, -2.5 in 0.9 and so on, until -5.0 freely engageable anywhere). EDIT: this is already the case.


Why?

To allow lowsec PVPers to go to highsec, shoot at eachother or get shot at by highseccers (if they can manage it Pirate).

More content in highsec, while maintaining the current 'safety' mechanics for any player with sec status above -2.0.


UPDATE for clarity:

- CONCORD mechanics would remain exactly the same.

- Faction Navy mechanics would remain exactly the same (attacking enemy militiamen and players with low faction standings).

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2 - 2014-06-08 21:15:09 UTC
I like it.

Facpo should honestly only be screwing with people in Faction Warfare, if you ask me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#3 - 2014-06-08 21:42:50 UTC
I could get on board with this so long as CONCORD still functioned like they do now.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2014-06-08 22:24:34 UTC
Sec status yes.
Low Standings however... No. If you are low standings with an NPC Faction they should attack you in their space.
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-06-08 22:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaijin Lanis
Time traveling CCP Developer here. I have approved this suggested and implemented it eleven years in your past. I left the faction police so low-security/standings players can't just hide in hisec POSes.

(I won't actually be a CCP developer until 2021)

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.

Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-06-08 23:33:22 UTC
No. Until digital internet passwort will become mandatory and Eve account can be tighted to one, making the player itself reponsible for his actions, not some disposable character, this won't work.

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#7 - 2014-06-08 23:41:05 UTC
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
No. Until digital internet passwort will become mandatory and Eve account can be tighted to one, making the player itself reponsible for his actions, not some disposable character, this won't work.


First of all, it sounds like you're advocating doxxing, which is really creepy if you ask me. No one deserves to have their privacy invaded by you because of actions in a videogame, let alone you getting to make them "responsible" for videogame actions.

Secondly, "disposable" alts are highly against the terms of service, and if you have any proof of it happening aside from you believing the urban legend, please report it. I can tell you straight up though, as a fairly prolific highsec douchebag, that recycling gank alts is in fact a myth. The GMs can come knocking if you even delete a character that used to have bad sec status 6 months prior.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-06-08 23:50:18 UTC
No, I'm not advocating it, just saying that ideas like "Lets give some important and profitably exploitable NPC function to players" will work as intended only if we could somehow reliably discern different characters of one player from characters of others - what won't happen in forseeable future.

And by disposability I meant the ease of swaping characters in Eve. So such system would be exploited as hell by small group of wicked-minded individuals having enough alts at their hands (which is not so hard nowdays, when people earn billions and you can sell old toon and buy another on character market legally). So it will not be a "police force with a couple of corrupted cops" like OP, probably, imagined, more like "bunch of thugs with authority".

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#9 - 2014-06-08 23:59:07 UTC
Um, what? I think you misunderstood the proposal. That, or you're reading something into this that I'm not.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-06-09 00:10:39 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Um, what? I think you misunderstood the proposal. That, or you're reading something into this that I'm not.

Yes, indeed, I got it wrong, should get some sleep, probably.
In any case, this won't work as intended too. Almost no new content will be generated this way as highsec dwellers almost never will attack fearfull flagged lowsec shark showed up in their peacefull bay - just out of caution, being afraide that this is some kind of trap. And most of them are fitted for PvE anyway, they won't fly to station to fetch some PvP fit (if they even have such) and catch you, they'll just proceed whith their life and ignore, mostly. So this proposal is simply "remove this annoying police, we don't want to face the cosequences of our actions anymore"

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#11 - 2014-06-09 00:14:41 UTC
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
So this proposal is simply "remove this annoying police, we don't want to face the cosequences of our actions anymore"


Not really. The proposal even cedes opening up people who wouldn't be attackable before, to being attacked. Any sec status in which you would be attacked by the NPCs will instead flag you in that system.

Meaning that a character with neg 2, who in Jita would not be attackable by players, would now be fair game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-06-09 00:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Meaning that a character with neg 2, who in Jita would not be attackable by players, would now be fair game.

Do you really think there will be many ppl in Jita who will pull this? Each time I'm undocking in dodixie I see this classical scam fight on undock, and most of other see and understand it too and they know perfectly that you should know better than attacking some seemingly easy target conviniently laying still in vicinity. Untill you'll get really unlucky and some FW gang will spot you, you will be pretty safe here. Well, at least after first several incidents in which some gullible highsec dwellers will be blown up to shreds.

Well, probably Jita's SG will be threat too, but anyway, what lowsec outlaw will fly to jita full of SG with something more expensive than shuttle and empty clone if this mechanics will be in place, anyway?

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link

Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-06-09 00:32:14 UTC
What about keeping the current faction police, but every time someone comes into a hisec system that the faction doesn't like they get a suspect timer go off, and players get faction LP for whatever empire they're helping when they shoot the guy down? The same could go for actual pirates; you get concord LP if you shoot them down in hisec. Making policing a new profession would be interesting, to say the least.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#14 - 2014-06-09 02:08:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I like it.

Facpo should honestly only be screwing with people in Faction Warfare, if you ask me.


That's what the Faction Navy is for.
Conrad Makbure
Trident Expedition
#15 - 2014-06-09 03:24:25 UTC
Concord has to stay in the game in their current design with response times and force. I like the idea of making hi-sec police a new profession; perhaps people in the force can reduce response times for 0.5 and up when a pirate incident happens. Only a PvP fitted ship should be viable for the fight, i.e., no huge buffs for any fit.

This can be exploited by people who get a secondary account just to infiltrate the player police force, so not sure how to get around that. Employment history? Sec status history? Faction status history? Total play time?
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-06-09 06:11:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Gully Alex Foyle
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Facpo should honestly only be screwing with people in Faction Warfare, if you ask me.
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I could get on board with this so long as CONCORD still functioned like they do now.
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
If you are low standings with an NPC Faction they should attack you in their space.
Conrad Makbure wrote:
Concord has to stay in the game in their current design with response times and force.
YES to all. This is just about Faction Police chasing negative sec status players.

CONCORD mechanics would remain exactly the same.

Faction Navy mechanics would remain exactly the same (attacking enemy militiamen and players with low faction standings).

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-06-09 06:26:42 UTC
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
Almost no new content will be generated this way as highsec dwellers almost never will attack fearfull flagged lowsec shark showed up in their peacefull bay - just out of caution, being afraide that this is some kind of trap.
This is true in the current 'metagame', where criminals (-5.0 sec status and below) in highsec are almost exclusively suicide gankers. And indeed players typically go suspect 'on purpose' to bait other players into attacking them.

In my vision, legal targets in highsec would instead become quite commonplace. Many of them would be just minding their own business, or hunting eachother. It could be well worth it for an average highseccer to 'give it a shot' in a relatively cheap ship. Just as an example, a sniping hurricane or tornado that could try to alpha a 'criminal' frigate without putting himself at risk of being tackled.

Also, not all highseccers are 'carebears'. I imagine fun skirmishes between highsec mercs and lowsec pirates.


Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-06-09 06:36:54 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
What about keeping the current faction police, but every time someone comes into a hisec system that the faction doesn't like they get a suspect timer go off, and players get faction LP for whatever empire they're helping when they shoot the guy down? The same could go for actual pirates; you get concord LP if you shoot them down in hisec. Making policing a new profession would be interesting, to say the least.
This could be quite interesting indeed.

But I think eliminating faction police is actually a necessary prerequisite. Just look at highsec today: not many pirates around, except suicide gankers that 'run-hit-and-die' without giving anybody a real chance to nab them. Also, since they plan on dying to CONCORD anyway, they almost never fly anything but cheap ships with empty pods.

To make 'policing' a viable profession, you need lots of targets. With faction police, pirates just mostly avoid highsec altogether because it's too much of a hassle. Today, to kill pirates you need to go to lowsec and ultimately become a pirate yourself!

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#19 - 2014-06-09 06:42:29 UTC
Isn't it CCP's vision to drive people out of High sec into Low sec and 00 sec? And you want a mechanic implemented that drags people back to High sec, who already live where they are supposed to live? Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-06-09 06:45:09 UTC
Conrad Makbure wrote:
This can be exploited by people who get a secondary account just to infiltrate the player police force, so not sure how to get around that. Employment history? Sec status history? Faction status history? Total play time?
There wouldn't be a 'player police force' game mechanic. Anybody could shoot a pirate/criminal, simple as that.

Sure, people could and probably would make player-created 'police forces', but then it would simply be up to them to manage recruitment, just like any player corp/alliance.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

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