EVE General Discussion

Yes we have, and I always appreciate your time

I enjoy the discussion and I like the debate, it just just so happens that it mostly turns into trolling. Perhaps if the ISD's keep the kind of presence they have now the content of these forums can be improved upon. I would actually prefer to discuss things, it is just really hard to get to do that. To much gets misrepresented and misconstrued, and so I just end up practicing my debate PVP skills instead.

One thing I have always like about these forums in particular is that aspect. No matter what you try to debate in real life, whether it's true or false, about religion, politics or science... you will have to contend with the rabble who use debate skills to warp the meaning of words in order to push individual agendas. Agruing that water is indeed not wet here in EVE's general discussion, is comparable to training with Mr. Miyagi in the Karate kid. Wax on... Wax off... now show!

I like pvp and I also like undocking 100% expecting to explode, but this won't happen without meeting the 50% chance of having a fighting chance.

If that 50% isn't met, I can load up a 5 v 5 game that will stimulate the 'competitive receptors' that I'm looking for instead.

Goad all you want in you 200 man carrier camp of an NPC station. No one's coming to fight you. You're just too big for your own enjoyment.

Even a sandbox has walls to keep the sand in, otherwise it's "A BEACH".

What happens when you fight on a Beach? See Normandy landings or Dunkirk evac for more details on 'Historical wisdom'.

Sand Box needs more BOX and less Sand and people will have less "Dunk"-age to keep them docked up.

Sibyyl.

In an artificial combat situation where you can not make sure you land within optimal range
and can be sure to keep it that way, your best option is to be faster and more agile than the
opponent, using long range weaponry.

That doesn't mean you're a kiter, btw.
Thinking in these catgories clouds and restricts the mind.

There's a job to be done. What counts is to get it done. Ignore kiters vs brawlers,
analyse the ground of what they have in common and adress that instead.

You should join the frigate tournament.

Yes, I also find duels extremely limiting. I often solo, but I almost never do arranged 1v1s.

For example, a couple of days ago I was in a coercer and met a 3-man gang: sentinel, harpy and merlin.

In 3 separate arranged 1v1s, 99% of the time I'd win against the merlin and lose against the other two. 1% chance of any other outcome - not very interesting, imo.

Instead, with no 'honorable rules' in place, they first tried to gang up on me but I managed to escape.

Then they spread out a bit in the system, and I spent 15 minutes trying to get the sentinel alone @ zero. It finally happened, and pop went the sentinel.

Then harpy+merlin chased me. At first they were together, then the Merlin made the mistake of getting too close while the harpy was farther away, and pop went the merlin.

I then left system since I felt I had little to no chance against the harpy.

TL;DR with some skill, luck and a couple of mistakes of my opponents, I got a better result vs. a duel, even with unfavorable odds. Even if I had popped instead (as often happens when I try 1 v many), it still would've been much more fun than a duel.

Losec pirates are just as bad for KM whoring as war dec'ers.

A few weeks ago I spent 5 minutes trying to convince a crow pilot to fight me 1v1 while i was in my claw. I has to say "I'm solo and want to die" before he engaged. After 5 minutes of cross-jumping he finally aggressed me and then his 2 friends (A rapier and a hound) decloak and start ganking me.

I managed to kill the Crow but couldn't warp out. The rapier pilot then proceeded to flame me and call me a scrub, despite my killing another 'ceptor while 3v1... He mad :)

I personally think API's shouldn't include kill information, nor should killmails be given. It was great initially, but now it's created a culture that discourages fighting (regardless of monetary losses) where victory must be almost assured. And the easiest way to assure victory is to bring more people (psst... im talking about blobs).

Most people wont blink at losing a 1billion isk ship because they can make money easily, but they hate how it looks on their killboard, so much so that they wont even fight.

I once scored a 1v1 in a dual rep'd Ishtar (pretty much my best ship) and invited the other guy to bring whatever else he wanted. He showed up in a guardian and I was like... WTF. He then commenced to neut me and kill all my drones with his. He had a pair of small blaster on his ship and between them and the warriors he actually rendered me helpless pretty quick and started chewing through both my cap and my tank.

I learned never to fight guardians


That being said, I personally do not like "trick" builds. I try and make it a point to fight with what I would be PVPing in under normal circumstance. If Remiel Pollard had not disappeared, I would have made it a point to find him in low sec. He showed us all that he flies Ishkur. I would have outfit my own version of an Ishkur or my preferred AF the Enyo. The resulting fight would end up being decided by each man's skill in said ship, being they would be more or less equally matched. I could also choose any other AF that I wanted, and it would still be about the pilots.

Basically, if it is not a real PVP fit then IMO it is not really a "match" it becomes something else.

What do you think is a real PVP fit?

What's on the line? Egos of course. We are social creatures and we want others to appreciate how well we've done, even if it is "just a game".

I think it's fair to say that for them, having an upper hand before expending antimatter has more pleasure in it than being caught in a situation where their victory isn't clear. I will confess, the "victory is assured" combatant is typically the bad guy in stories, and I always enjoy the bad guy because it's always paramount to him that he isn't caught flatfooted.

There is another side to this of course. Most players are not insidious and villainous. And most players are risk averse and comfortable only in fleets and would rather station spin than encountering the unknown. Now here let me be honest with you. Maybe YOU are free to rail on this kind of behavior, but I'm not sure I'm really free of it. I've done a lot of stupid things and gotten pleasure out of it, but I am also insanely paranoid and as an inadvertant result very risk averse. I don't feel like I'm that brave a lot of the time. So as much as I'd like to agree or disagree with you, I really don't feel like I'm in a position to do so.


In a Coercer? I don't even have to read the rest of your post to know that you're awesome! But I did read your post, and it sounds like it was a good adventure for you.


Here's the thing. This other person had friends he was lurking around with. Finding friends to blap people is a competing skill in the game. Friends are more valuable than guns on your ship. As much as I'd like to give you credit for being a brave fighter, you also were roaming without any friends. Why? And why do you think that killing you with 2 other friends is unfair or cowardly? You got outgamed, and you got killed. I think that's fair.. don't you?


I want to say this is intuitive and easy, but for me it's not. Kaarous had to explain it to me (and it took multiple emails) and I still think my understanding of what fits are better applied to what purposes is still sort of secondhand knowledge. I honestly read Kaarous's last post in thread five times, and I still don't understand what he's saying about Logi and aggressing.

I am a big fan of this complexity.. even if I don't understand it. But I think that you have non-trivial knowledge of fitting Coercers (for example) that may not be elementary to somebody like me (or Gully).

lol, smacktalking on sisi isnt very productive is it?

I've been playing Since '06 so i'm fairly efficient at PVP. I'd have died with no kills if i wasn't already good. But i'm at a point now where lots of small decisions in a fight are what make the difference between a win and a loss - but thats redered pointless when E-War ships decloak and start messing with you.

Admittedly anything BUT a rapier would have been easy for me to avoid. Otherwise i was getting a Crow, Hound and staying alive to boot.

back on topic: Until people leave there gangs and either forget about stats or dont have stats to be tracked, most PVP is uneventful and boring due to become a mathematical equation.