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Cloaking counter's

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Author
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
#21 - 2014-05-25 17:51:12 UTC
This forum desperately needs an ISD bot that automatically smites these threads.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-05-26 08:01:24 UTC
Thua Thal wrote:
There is just no correlation between risk and reward for afk cloaky campers. 1 guy can make a system more or less useless for isk generating or make the users of said system jump through a whole lot of hoops for very little security. With basically no risk. "Go somewhere else" and "make a counter" are very good answers indeed, but it is still one guy forcing his will upon others. With minimal risk to himself.

I agree with those who want some kind of way to scan down cloakers. It should be hard yes. and easily avoided if you move your cloaked ship around. It would add some fun cat/mouse gameplay and would give people who want to shut down a system some risk for what in my eyes seems to be a rather high reward.


TT


Gully explained it pretty simply, enough so that you should be able to grasp what he's saying.

I've said it before, and I'll probably wind up saying it again: AFK players can't hurt you. It's your choice how you deal with their presence in the system.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"

Christopher Mabata
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#23 - 2014-05-26 22:32:46 UTC
Anyone who knows me knows I use cloaking ships daily, i love covert ops ships. But the one thing I don't understand is why people don't understand the fact that on a covert ops ship that cloak is your lifeline. Recons, black ops, bombers, and scanning frigates don't have anywhere near as much tank as their T1 counterparts and instead use the cloak to avoid taking damage or getting directly engaged.

It's not hard to catch a cloaking ship when it jumps into system ( perfect cloak in low sec no withstanding ) or if it warps in and ends up decloaked. But if a cloaks is at a random safe spot and cloaked it's basically invincible unless you have the bookmark it happens to be sitting on.

And it's from these cloaking ships sitting in safes that people get these irrational fears about cloakies. Believe me when I say I know how real of a threat hot drops are, I've done probably a hundred in the 2 years I've had this toon. Honestly is one bomber cloaking up in your mining system that bad? Take the right precautions do the right research and implement the use of certain game mechanics and you have nothing to worry about. No need for decloak probes or othe mechanics that defeat the purpose of a perfectly fine game mechanic. Covert ops ( especially black ops ) still need a few slight adjustments but the actual mechanic of cloaking is fine.

End rant

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Thua Thal
Pandemic Lizards.
#24 - 2014-05-27 13:55:17 UTC
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:
Thua Thal wrote:
There is just no correlation between risk and reward for afk cloaky campers. 1 guy can make a system more or less useless for isk generating or make the users of said system jump through a whole lot of hoops for very little security. With basically no risk. "Go somewhere else" and "make a counter" are very good answers indeed, but it is still one guy forcing his will upon others. With minimal risk to himself.

I agree with those who want some kind of way to scan down cloakers. It should be hard yes. and easily avoided if you move your cloaked ship around. It would add some fun cat/mouse gameplay and would give people who want to shut down a system some risk for what in my eyes seems to be a rather high reward.


TT


Gully explained it pretty simply, enough so that you should be able to grasp what he's saying.

I've said it before, and I'll probably wind up saying it again: AFK players can't hurt you. It's your choice how you deal with their presence in the system.



All I read is "QQ don't nerf my OP cloak"
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-05-27 16:06:24 UTC
Thua Thal wrote:
All I read is "QQ don't nerf my OP cloak"


Ugh

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"

Christopher Mabata
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#26 - 2014-05-27 22:50:19 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Oh sweet - I get to use my favorite line again.




I have never seen a cloaky camper.
Big smileBig smileBig smile


Hahaha like that, might have to steal that from you

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

ARMED1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-05-28 23:16:50 UTC
LightsDawn MonteCristo wrote:
I was wondering if CCP was going to introduce a means of countering the cloaking system that ships use in EVE in any of

the up coming expansions. I haven't had much chance to keep up on the news lately, Real life has been busy.

With all the newts and campers around, we really need some kind of means for scaring them off.

I am thinking of something along the lines of the combat senor probes and moon scanner probes that are already out there.

These anti-cloak probes would be shot out to the "Large Belt Cluster" for example, maybe requiring five probes to cover the

entire belt, and they would send out something like a sonar pulse. Any cloaked ship would then be detected. Maye also add a

model that can detect cloaked ships with in 20k of your ship, depending on your skills.

I am not wanting CCP to nerf the cloaking system as it is, I like using my cloaky haulers. I would just like some small means

of tracking down a cloaky camper and shooting him or her. Twisted

I do not believe that this suggestion in any way nerfs or hinders a players ability to use cloaks or camp a system, the system

owners would still have to send probes to all the belts and planets to find the other players so it doesn't effect things all that

much as far as i can tell.

It just make the newts earn their kills and campers not being able to AFK camp as easily.



What are your thoughts on all this?


Wait, what??? How about NO!!! HELL NO!!!
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-05-29 22:34:05 UTC
Thua Thal wrote:
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:
Thua Thal wrote:
There is just no correlation between risk and reward for afk cloaky campers. 1 guy can make a system more or less useless for isk generating or make the users of said system jump through a whole lot of hoops for very little security. With basically no risk. "Go somewhere else" and "make a counter" are very good answers indeed, but it is still one guy forcing his will upon others. With minimal risk to himself.

I agree with those who want some kind of way to scan down cloakers. It should be hard yes. and easily avoided if you move your cloaked ship around. It would add some fun cat/mouse gameplay and would give people who want to shut down a system some risk for what in my eyes seems to be a rather high reward.


TT


Gully explained it pretty simply, enough so that you should be able to grasp what he's saying.

I've said it before, and I'll probably wind up saying it again: AFK players can't hurt you. It's your choice how you deal with their presence in the system.



All I read is "QQ don't nerf my OP cloak"


You should probably train Reading Comprehension to V and get a 5% implant while you're at it. You seem to need the help.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"

Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-05-30 07:23:37 UTC
Cloak up. Go afk. They can't do anything to you. Countered.
Cooper Gribbles
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-05-30 13:57:22 UTC
I have been both on the receiving end and the giving end of shutting down carebear operations. I believe cloaking up and remaining AFK is an acceptable tactic in being a thorn in an alliance's side and essentially screwing up a mining op or PvE session. I do however also think that it's too easy for one person to do it. One person sitting AFK, cloaked up, probably at work for 8-12 hours can cost an alliance/corporation/pilot billions of ISK worth of mining and PvE operations with the risk of losing a 30 million ISK bomber. I saw in one of many threads on this subject, that someone suggested a low rate of fuel consumption for the cloak. I somewhat like the idea. As an individual sitting cloaked I can shut someone's operation down for a while. With a team effort and another cloaky ship running the fuel back and forth, WE can shut down an operation as long as the fuel is kept flowing.

A good leader's men fight with him, not for him

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-05-30 14:23:02 UTC
Cooper Gribbles wrote:
I have been both on the receiving end and the giving end of shutting down carebear operations. I believe cloaking up and remaining AFK is an acceptable tactic in being a thorn in an alliance's side and essentially screwing up a mining op or PvE session. I do however also think that it's too easy for one person to do it. One person sitting AFK, cloaked up, probably at work for 8-12 hours can cost an alliance/corporation/pilot billions of ISK worth of mining and PvE operations with the risk of losing a 30 million ISK bomber. I saw in one of many threads on this subject, that someone suggested a low rate of fuel consumption for the cloak. I somewhat like the idea. As an individual sitting cloaked I can shut someone's operation down for a while. With a team effort and another cloaky ship running the fuel back and forth, WE can shut down an operation as long as the fuel is kept flowing.

Is it not the inability of the alliance/corp/pilot to deal with the possibility of a covert hotdrop that costs them billions of ISK?

Or: why should you make billions of ISK in sov null if you cannot protect yourself?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-05-30 15:41:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Cephelange du'Krevviq
Cooper Gribbles wrote:
I have been both on the receiving end and the giving end of shutting down carebear operations. I believe cloaking up and remaining AFK is an acceptable tactic in being a thorn in an alliance's side and essentially screwing up a mining op or PvE session. I do however also think that it's too easy for one person to do it. One person sitting AFK, cloaked up, probably at work for 8-12 hours can cost an alliance/corporation/pilot billions of ISK worth of mining and PvE operations with the risk of losing a 30 million ISK bomber. I saw in one of many threads on this subject, that someone suggested a low rate of fuel consumption for the cloak. I somewhat like the idea. As an individual sitting cloaked I can shut someone's operation down for a while. With a team effort and another cloaky ship running the fuel back and forth, WE can shut down an operation as long as the fuel is kept flowing.


The person camping cloaked and AFK is not the sole ingredient in that recipe. The corp/alliance members that are incapable of adapting and taking pretty simple protective measures are, by far, the biggest portion of the recipe.

Seriously, if you can't take certain minimal steps to protect/defend yourself, then you shouldn't be living in null.

Finally, I wish this would be the last time I had to say this, but someone that is AFK...

Can

Not

Hurt

You.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"

Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
Lost Obsession
#33 - 2014-05-30 16:02:13 UTC
Wow an AFK cloaker whinethread.

Thank you for providing some original and well thought-out content.

BTW highsec is that way ---->
Cooper Gribbles
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-05-30 20:36:04 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Cooper Gribbles wrote:
I have been both on the receiving end and the giving end of shutting down carebear operations. I believe cloaking up and remaining AFK is an acceptable tactic in being a thorn in an alliance's side and essentially screwing up a mining op or PvE session. I do however also think that it's too easy for one person to do it. One person sitting AFK, cloaked up, probably at work for 8-12 hours can cost an alliance/corporation/pilot billions of ISK worth of mining and PvE operations with the risk of losing a 30 million ISK bomber. I saw in one of many threads on this subject, that someone suggested a low rate of fuel consumption for the cloak. I somewhat like the idea. As an individual sitting cloaked I can shut someone's operation down for a while. With a team effort and another cloaky ship running the fuel back and forth, WE can shut down an operation as long as the fuel is kept flowing.

Is it not the inability of the alliance/corp/pilot to deal with the possibility of a covert hotdrop that costs them billions of ISK?

Or: why should you make billions of ISK in sov null if you cannot protect yourself?



I agree. It is definitely up to the sov owners to defend their space. Never said it wasn't. With the proposal from above I borrowed from another thread, the hot drop is still a definite possiblity and probability. The only thing it would change is that you couldn't stay cloaked for 8 hours straight without access to the fuel the cloak is consuming. It simply makes shutting down an enemy system for an extended period, a team effort. I think the tactic should still exist, just not as lazily done.

As for the guy who keeps saying an AFK person can't kill you... I present the "Theory of Schrodinger's Cloaking Device": The cloaked individual is both AFK and not AFK, until you put a shiny ship out there you will never know. :)

A good leader's men fight with him, not for him

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-05-30 21:46:57 UTC
Cooper Gribbles wrote:
As for the guy who keeps saying an AFK person can't kill you... I present the "Theory of Schrodinger's Cloaking Device": The cloaked individual is both AFK and not AFK, until you put a shiny ship out there you will never know. :)


No, they are either AFK or they aren't.

AFK cloaker = can't hurt you.

Active cloaker = can (potentially) hurt you.

(For the record, yes, I understand and appreciate the Schrödinger reference.)

My point remains, it doesn't take all that much of an effort to prepare for a non-AFK cloaker in your system. but people don't want to, because ::effort::. Roll

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"

Catherine Woodville
Happy Clappy Suicide Squad
#36 - 2014-05-31 02:43:53 UTC
Here are direct counters to a cloaky camper that took me..... almost 3 seconds to think of:

Fleet up to go ratting. Include some high alpha dps ships for protection and general lulz when a bomber decloaks.
Bait them and counter drop them. This is very entertaining.
Move to another system and rat. This is quite effective as afk campers won't follow you will they.

I'm sorry if your right to rat afk in your null sec pocket is being disrupted but that is no excuse for being bad.
Christopher Mabata
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#37 - 2014-05-31 02:56:26 UTC
Catherine Woodville wrote:
Here are direct counters to a cloaky camper that took me..... almost 3 seconds to think of:

Fleet up to go ratting. Include some high alpha dps ships for protection and general lulz when a bomber decloaks.
Bait them and counter drop them. This is very entertaining.
Move to another system and rat. This is quite effective as afk campers won't follow you will they.

I'm sorry if your right to rat afk in your null sec pocket is being disrupted but that is no excuse for being bad.


I'm surprised you didn't mention what CVA and Provi Usually do, which is task a small assault frigate squad to the system to deal with bomber gangs before they can kill their intended targets. Been on the receiving end of that a few times on hotdrops ( as im sure your alliance is more than aware of ) and i would say its one of your most effective tactics against a cloaky Squad like mine.

I like to give Provi crap about some of their players but generally speaking they do know how to deal with a bomber gang when it comes to assault frigates

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Kiro Shinijami
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co.
#38 - 2014-06-01 23:04:22 UTC
I actually like having the cloaky campers in systems, as a new null sec resident, they provide me all sorts of intel, like who their BLOPS friends are and what BLOPS are most active (add to watchlist), and what ships they usually like to camp in. Both pieces of info can be gained from killboards if you're willing to do some basic research.

Once you add the BLOPS battleships to your watchlist, you see how many are actually online, if none, go and rat some, but take a few precautions like staying off the beacon or dropping some cans, if you kill fairly quick, the wrecks you create may decloak them as they warp to you in a site.

Always be aligned to something, if something decloaks next to you, they probably won't be able to lock you instantly, so you can get away if you have quick reflexes.

Watch DSCAN, even though their ship may be cloaked, their probes aren't, you will still pick them up when they try to get a pinpoint scan. Even if someone specifically fits their camping ship for the best possible scan speed/probe strength and has maxed skills (unlikely) they still need a period of time for their probes to actually warp to your site and start their scan cycle, then they need to warp in to you. Being aligned will let you get out as soon as you see the probes.

I haven't tried the counterdrop thing yet, but I had some ideas with taking a cloaked dictor alt with me into sites so I could bubble the BLOPS when they came and call in the defence fleet.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#39 - 2014-06-05 22:59:34 UTC
Quote:
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As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

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