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Crime & Punishment

 
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Scammed out of 840million isk (great way to welcome new players)

First post
Author
Mr Welsh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2014-05-20 13:38:39 UTC
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:
Well I have always been good at playing the market in mmos, however I do not understand enough of the markets mechanics yet, therefore I got scammed by something that seemed to be a good deal, in most mmos scams are done by player to player not market interactions since most devs make those solid to prevent exploits.




Stinks of world of warcraft
Radric Davids
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#102 - 2014-05-20 14:51:45 UTC
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:
Well I have always been good at playing the market in mmos, however I do not understand enough of the markets mechanics yet, therefore I got scammed by something that seemed to be a good deal, in most mmos scams are done by player to player not market interactions since most devs make those solid to prevent exploits.



OP failed because he saw something that was too good to be true and believed it. A game like wow is set up to coddle people like that, but like real life, eve will punish bad and impulsive decisions.

Like I said earlier, what he did was analogous to seeing a penny stock popup ad on your computer and putting your live savings into a single penny stock because it was worth $0.01 yesterday and $0.02 today. Anyone who took a second to google penny stocks or the eve market would have known the danger of taking such a rash action.

Buying a used car that retails at $100k from a sleazy used car salesman for $500 without asking oneself whats the catch will have similar results.
Little Chubby
Atrocity.
Belligerent Undesirables
#103 - 2014-05-20 18:23:55 UTC
An important lesson was learned here.

Here are some for free:

-Shoot straight
-Conserve Ammo

And perhaps most importantly

-Never, EVER cut a deal with a dragon.

...Wait. Wrong game. It still stands.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#104 - 2014-05-21 08:26:30 UTC
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:
Well I have always been good at playing the market in mmos, however I do not understand enough of the markets mechanics yet, therefore I got scammed by something that seemed to be a good deal, in most mmos scams are done by player to player not market interactions since most devs make those solid to prevent exploits.

And honestly even though I am 3 weeks old I love making in game money even if I have no use for it. I sit around and train skills, would be nice to train skills work the market and in 6 months from now have a sweet ship with plenty of high end upgrades that keep it alive.

I can use a Raven right now, but if I hop into one I have low lvl rigging and cant use most of the tech 2 mods. I would get raped! So I train up stuff and play the market. Sucks that I blew like about 30 bucks in isk.

If I was scammed by a player interaction then that's one thing. But this is stupid, it seem like more of an exploit.


A scam is not an exploit.
It is someone being more clever than someone else.

Rule of thumb: If something sounds to good to be true and you see yourself making a superior nice profit it most definitly is a scam.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Abulurd Boniface
CORE BUSINESS
#105 - 2014-05-22 08:47:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Abulurd Boniface
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:
So first off I am about a 3 week old Eve player, I decided to get some money with plexes so I could invest in the market of buying and selling, I came across a buy order today that wanted 3 Tuvan Modified Kinetic Plating for 2.5billion isk, I then purchased one for 839million isk. Their were only 4 of them on the market. Then when I attempt to sell it to this person it would not let me sell it. I was stumped thinking it was some sort of ****** up exploit.

Then as I looked into it further I noticed he only accepts 3 at a time not 2.5bill each, yes I overlooked this but again I was blinded buy the fact that it was a possible error by a player and I tried to get money off of it. Someone posted in local "to bad I don't have money to buy this, look at the market error (link to item)"

Now all the other buy orders are below 150mill, making me think that maybe he tried to do 250mill in a buy order and added an extra 0 by accident making it 2.5 billion. I think he purchased all of them off of the market then puts them up their at inflated prices, then makes a stupid sell order that may catch someone off guard, like me. Now I could only buy one so now I cannot sell it back to him to make my money back because I would need 3 of the said item. So basically if he got them for a lot cheaper he just made profit on me and I cannot get it back because of how he has it set up.

Now I am not even sure if I can resell this item for even 750mill, unless someone else see this little scheme and has the money to fall for it. Basically making me have to then link, " look at this market glitch" man this is ******* stupid OopsOopsOops

Do you think this was a scam?


Welcome to EVE, buddy. You fell victim to people who do this for a living.

Was this a scam? That is the wrong question. Every time, -every-single-time- you see an "wow, this is awesome" opportunity on the EVE market, your default reaction has to be: how is this guy going to scam me?

The EVE market is a living organism, it is not static. If you're new, you want to look at how the market moves and how the money flows before you start throwing money around.

Unless you're a real-life quant the last thing you want to try is to get some PLEX and 'show these EVE nerds how it's done'. I don't know whether there are real quants active on the EVE market, but if somebody told me they are I would not be the least bit surprised.

Consider your 839 mil 'investment' the price of the lesson. You are now part of the tapestry of EVE, you have begun to tell your own story. Don't dwell on the loss other than as a lesson on what no to do. If you can't get past it you're not going to have fun here and you won't be staying. Which I don't say to be smug, it's just the nature of the place.

/I'm working too hard in EVE when it's much easier to tickle the newbies into making dumb mistakes. I need to change my line of work.
Xuixien
Black Echelon
#106 - 2014-05-30 13:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
So let's get this straight.

You wanted more ISK, and ISK is so important to you, that you dumped at least 20 USD, but probably more, on PLEX, in order to get started in station trading which, at 3 weeks old, you have neither the skills nor the standings to do effectively.

You then saw someone who, seemingly, had made a huge mistake when setting up their buy orders. Primed to take advantage of their error, you purchased the item in question in order to make a tidy profit via taking the ignorance of another player - greedoverriding caution and leading you into ruin, as the player you sought to to get one over in had in fact gotten one over on you.

Justice served.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#107 - 2014-05-30 18:16:25 UTC
Is it bad that every time I read the thread title I think, "Yes it is!"?

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Sonoske Kautsuo
Irked inc.
#108 - 2014-05-30 18:53:48 UTC
Does anyone here know this is a super ******* old thread? Why keep digging it up?

I buy PLEX so what?

I make plenty of money from POS bashes, SOMER blink Promos and Trading. Hell I snagged 10 Gilas when they were 135mill. Now they are 210mill in Jita and they keep going up thanks to the new expansion.

Trust me I have learned a lot and make a decent living in EVE.

I also make a decent living IRL and if I choose to drop $100 on PLEX then that's my business.

EVE WAS MADE FOR ME! Just wish I would have found it sooner!!!
Maichin Civire
#109 - 2014-05-30 19:02:18 UTC
Quote:
Does anyone here know this is a super ******* old thread? Why keep digging it up?


Because it was hella stupid and you engaged in very greedy action without even thinking about it. And we're all very sentimentialy.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#110 - 2014-05-30 19:31:32 UTC
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:
Does anyone here know this is a super ******* old thread? Why keep digging it up?

I buy PLEX so what?

Because tears are a sought after thing in Eve. You just poured out gallons of tears in your OP. Knowing that your loss was funded by RL money made those tears so much sweeter. A good rule of Eve is never cry where people will see it. It's okay to have tears over a loss just don't post it in the forms, Evemail, Local chat etc.

BTW I'm glad you're enjoying the game!
Xuixien
Black Echelon
#111 - 2014-05-30 19:41:30 UTC
I buy PLEX, but I make my money from other things.

Sounds legit.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Sonoske Kautsuo
Irked inc.
#112 - 2014-05-31 00:16:57 UTC
I get a decent payout for POS bashing with my corp, as well as other things like faction warfare, ganking, and trading.

And I have not purchased any plex for quite some time now, nor do I need to ATM. But if I have a spare $20 laying about it never hurts to add another 740mill to my bank.
Catalytic morphisis
Among Shadows
Shadows of Eden
#113 - 2014-05-31 10:31:56 UTC
Dalto Bane wrote:
Op, you made your initial mistake by PLEXing only three weeks into your game. Having too much isk, too early before you fully understand the Market, Meta, and Mechanics of this game is very dangerous. I am not saying to gimp yourself or live like a pauper, but taking the fast road with limited knowledge will break you quick, friend.


Dalto Bane would know, Billion ISK Drake with 2 months experience ring any bells dalto?

Actual Link free and scout free solo PvP'er

Vivec Septim
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2014-06-03 20:40:11 UTC
Some common sense goes a long way in EVE.

One tip I give to any newer player -- play to have fun, not to solely make ISK, and you will
find yourself playing longer, and less susceptible to the various rainbow kaleidoscope of
scams that exist in EVE.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. 

Valleria Darkmoon
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#115 - 2014-06-04 10:05:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
RAW23 wrote:
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:
Now I could only buy one so now I cannot sell it back to him to make my money back because I would need 3 of the said item. So basically if he got them for a lot cheaper he just made profit on me and I cannot get it back because of how he has it set up.


Actually, you are lucky you could only afford one. If you had purchased three and tried to sell all of them to him his buy order would have been cancelled as it was set up using the margin trading skill and backed by only a proportion of the total value in escrow. If he didn't have enough in his wallet to complete the purchase the transaction would fail and his order would disappear entirely, leaving you with three of the overpriced items. This is known as 'the margin trading scam'.

CCP have announced that they want to change the mechanic but they are not sure how to do this yet as margin trading is an important part of the economy of eve. In the meantime scams like this go on. Basically, as a new player expect scams in eve and if a business deal seems too good to be true then assume it probably is and seek advice before going ahead with it. Asking about this in the rookie channel would probably have informed you of the situation.

The only thing I can think of is you allow deficit spending but only up to the point where a buy order actually puts you into the red. The second your wallet balance is negative you are bankrupt, all of your outstanding market buy orders are cancelled and needless to say you can not buy anything, the only spending that would still sort of have to be allowed is costs associated with selling things on the market (tax and broker fees). You would be prohibited from placing new buy orders or buying off of sell orders until your wallet is back in the black. Finally bankrupt characters can not be biomassed.

Pretty heavy handed to be sure but it would allow margin trading to be used for its intended purpose, while the current "scam" would only ruin the person running it. In the very unlikely event that you go bankrupt on legitimate use of the skill it won't be that big a deal because now you have tons of ISK worth of useful things to move and the costs associated with selling them are still allowed so you can get back on your feet. You will still suffer for losing all the buy orders you had outstanding which is your penalty for stretching too thin.

The first time I encountered the margin trading scam, I reverse engineered it by staring at it long enough to see what was wrong. The owner put WTB and the item link in Dodixie local which is an automatic red flag but I checked into it anyway. There were two dead giveaways, the fact that the buy order would only accept the full quantity to fill the order and the fact that a sufficient number of item X is available for sale on the market for less than the outstanding buy order for the same item. If you really wanted to buy something why would you not take whatever a person has to sell you instead of insisting that they fill the entire order or sell you nothing? We're not talking about Tritanium here, where a minimum quantity makes sense, particularly on regional orders. Secondly, if you want to buy something what are the odds you spammed in local and didn't check the market?

If it looks too good to be true it is, the rest is just figuring out exactly what is off here so you can be on the look out for the same scam later.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#116 - 2014-06-04 23:55:06 UTC
Is this thread doomed to eternal life?

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

FunGu Arsten
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#117 - 2014-06-05 13:02:39 UTC  |  Edited by: FunGu Arsten
Hellow OP,

I feel sad about your loss SO if sing me a song*, start with 'i got scammed and i am mad"' record the full song and finish by saying "fungu arsten, i want your babies" and send me the link.... and i will send your 840m

* we will let the forum warriors choose the song.

Let the games begin?
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#118 - 2014-06-05 16:41:36 UTC
FunGu Arsten wrote:
Hellow OP,

I feel sad about your loss SO if sing me a song*, start with 'i got scammed and i am mad"' record the full song and finish by saying "fungu arsten, i want your babies" and send me the link.... and i will send your 840m

* we will let the forum warriors choose the song.

Let the games begin?

I take that as a yes. How bout you sing us a song about reading more than just the first post of a thread before posting.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

FunGu Arsten
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#119 - 2014-06-05 16:46:04 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
FunGu Arsten wrote:
Hellow OP,

I feel sad about your loss SO if sing me a song*, start with 'i got scammed and i am mad"' record the full song and finish by saying "fungu arsten, i want your babies" and send me the link.... and i will send your 840m

* we will let the forum warriors choose the song.

Let the games begin?

I take that as a yes. How bout you sing us a song about reading more than just the first post of a thread before posting.


I only want to offer some way to return the isk to a poor soul
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#120 - 2014-06-05 20:07:42 UTC
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:
Does anyone here know this is a super ******* old thread? Why keep digging it up?

In EVE, success is fleeting, but failure is forever.