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Reworking for 'Fighter Class' drones.
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Fournone
Pyromaniacs Anonymous
#1 - 2011-09-11 22:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Fournone
Note: No specific stats will be provided. Thats CCP's job. Idea Below is a work in progress so nothing is set in stone. This thread follows the confirmed SC nerf and Dread buff coming in the winter. Assuming Mittani's leak is correct, SC will not longer be able to use drones and will have an ehp nerf. This is instrumental to this idea. I do infact fly capitals and know what I'm talking about. I have experienced 0.0 npc and sov first hand. This idea is to fill refocus fighters to a more realistic use, give carriers a more active part in fleet warfare, and to fill the niche left behind by the refocusing of the fighter. This thread will be tweaked often due to my horribad spelling and my sometimes unclear sentences.

*Post Winter Expansion*

Supercarriers have less ehp and can no longer use drones. Dreadnoguhts more prevelant in pos bashing and anti-super warfare.

Firstly: Increase the speed of fighters, and increase tracking to kill bombers very effectively. Balance DPS/HP accordingly. Frigates will be able to eat these things alive.

Secondly: Change 'Fighter Bomber' to heavy bomber. Heavy bomber will be pretty much exact same as is now (capital killers).

Thirdly: Add new fighter bombers. These are between bombers and fighters more focused on killing BS sized vessels. These are between the size of heavy bombers and fighters. Only supercarriers can use them. *Don't yell at me yet, still got mot of the thread to read*

Now the rock/paper/scissors path will look like this. Unless otherwise specified, the '----->' means kill.

Carriers -*luanch*-> light drones -----> frigates ----> fighters *and frigates* -----> fighter bombers *and fighters/frigates* ----> heavy bombers -----> carriers -*support*-> Dreadnought/Supercarriers/Titans -----> carriers. Frigates <-----> Cruiser/BC <----> BS <-----> capitals.

Eve too complex to fit all this one one simple chart like this. Just kinda squeeze them together. Heavy/Medium drones still have a place on carriers to counter various hostile ship types. And I probably missed a few '----->' but you get the picture.

In a fleet senario: Fleet A is pos bashing with dreadnoughts and the dreadnoughts begin to return fire stuck in seige mode. Remeber, supercarriers are more vulnerable now with leaked upcoming ehp nerf. Fleet B drops supercarriers with a full load of Heavy Bombers attack the dreadnoughts. ATM this is game over but wait and watch. Fleet A brings in carrier support, the spidertank keeps them from being instantly slaughtered and the fighters start cleaning up the field of heavy bombers very quickly. To counter this, Fleet B brings in some BS to go and kill the carriers and prepare to luanch another wave of heavy bombers. Anticipating this, Fleet A brings in supercarriers of thier own.
Fleet B assumes the supercarriers are there to help kill their own supercarriers so the BS charge on. Instead a massive wave of fighter bombers flies in and starts clearing up the BS fleet. Fleet B immediatly brings in frigates which were origonally coming to kill the fighters focus everything on the fighter bombers, facemelting them effectively. The fighters luanched to kill the heavy bombers return to the carriers and instead a wave of light drones come pouring out of the carriers slaughtering the distracted frigates. Fleet B brings in carriers aswell to begin cleaning up the light drones with its own light drones. Fleet A and B also bring in numbers of BS, BC, Cruisers, as well as other support ships to try to fill any missed gaps.
Now Fleet A and Fleet B have a choice. Continue to commit in this rock/paper/scissors and continue to lose ships to hostiles coutering them or retreat. They are getting plenty of kills using counters of the counters. However those counters are being countered aswell. Do you commit or retreat?

Now all ships have thier place (besides the horribad broken ones). As I said before, this idea does and will not contain specific stats. That's CCP's Job. And all points of this thread is open to debate/discussion and will be changed accordingly.

Now, flame on.
Infinion
Awesome Corp
#2 - 2011-09-11 23:36:50 UTC
before we introduce a new class of fighters, I was under the impression that a battleship would receive significant damage from fighter bombers as long as they were webbed / painted. Is this incorrect?
Dr Gidazu
Universal Excavation Services
#3 - 2011-09-12 00:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Gidazu
I really see no point in removing the ability to use normal drones IF fighters are made the new "OMGBBQ everything smaller than BS" weapons at the same time... I mean whats the point then? As I understand it, the goal of rebalancing is to make SC:s less effective against sub caps, not the other way around.
Havak Kouvo
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-09-12 00:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Havak Kouvo
There seems to be a small problem. BS already take forever to target light drones, it will be near impossible for carriers to target light drones and frigates.

What CCP needs to do is enhance the ability for pilots to edit their drone's behavior. A menu that allows me to set priorities of types for each drone group. For example, I can tell my group of Warrior II to look for a target other light drones, then if they can't find any in range, go after frigates, but if I decide to change to Heavy Drones, I can tell those to start with cruiser size ships before going against the battleships. Also without using a workaround such as "Guard/Assist X" I can just tell my launched drones to start fighting, this way I don't have a first target or what until someone aggresses me WHILE the drones are also launched. I can't tell them specifically who to shoot unless I start targeting, but at least they won't just be sitting idle (kinda like how FOF missiles work, you just turn them on and they do the rest.)
Infinion
Awesome Corp
#5 - 2011-09-12 00:34:08 UTC
Havak Kouvo wrote:
There seems to be a small problem. BS already take forever to target light drones, it will be near impossible for carriers to target light drones and frigates.

What CCP needs to do is enhance the ability for pilots to edit their drone's behavior. A menu that allows me to set priorities of types for each drone group. For example, I can tell my group of Warrior II to look for a target other light drones, then if they can't find any in range, go after frigates, but if I decide to change to Heavy Drones, I can tell those to start with cruiser size ships before going against the battleships. Also without using a workaround such as "Guard/Assist X" I can just tell my launched drones to start fighting, this way I don't have a first target or what until someone aggresses me WHILE the drones are also launched.


this
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-09-12 00:55:31 UTC
Just so we can me clear on this, rock paper scissors combat is ******* terrible. It might be better then one weapon is the hand of god combat, which is what we have now, but aiming for RPS is like aiming for a pass. Lets got for a HD, and try to make combat more varied then "if they brought A to counter our C, bring B to counter A, and hope they don't bring C to counter B, or we will need more A".

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Havak Kouvo
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-09-12 17:27:14 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Just so we can me clear on this, rock paper scissors combat is ******* terrible. It might be better then one weapon is the hand of god combat, which is what we have now, but aiming for RPS is like aiming for a pass. Lets got for a HD, and try to make combat more varied then "if they brought A to counter our C, bring B to counter A, and hope they don't bring C to counter B, or we will need more A".


Agreed.