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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Missiles and the warp button

Author
ViRtUoZone
Spitfire Syndicate
#1 - 2014-06-05 08:24:59 UTC
Can anyone tell me why all of my missiles launched and in space after I click warp to go away? But if I align out and wait until warp speed and press warp they stay until I've warped?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2014-06-05 10:11:33 UTC
because hitting warp nukes your missiles. Has done this for 11 years now.

Working as intended.

mechanics of the game, such that you would otherwise be able to still be "shooting" things after you've warped off (because missile flight time).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#3 - 2014-06-05 10:27:49 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
because hitting warp nukes your missiles. Has done this for 11 years now.

Working as intended.

mechanics of the game, such that you would otherwise be able to still be "shooting" things after you've warped off (because missile flight time).

His point was why does it work differently if you manually align then warp vs use the warp tool to align.
And he's right.

The Missiles should stay on grid till he actually warps off. not when he starts aligning using the warp command when he could have 10+ seconds still to actually enter warp during which he could be tackled. (For a Phoenix it could be a LOT longer than 10 seconds even)
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#4 - 2014-06-05 11:02:37 UTC
This has cost me a few kills over the years. My solution was to train up Gunnery support skills Big smile

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#5 - 2014-06-05 11:10:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
because hitting warp nukes your missiles. Has done this for 11 years now.

Working as intended.

mechanics of the game, such that you would otherwise be able to still be "shooting" things after you've warped off (because missile flight time).

His point was why does it work differently if you manually align then warp vs use the warp tool to align.
And he's right.

The Missiles should stay on grid till he actually warps off. not when he starts aligning using the warp command when he could have 10+ seconds still to actually enter warp during which he could be tackled. (For a Phoenix it could be a LOT longer than 10 seconds even)



The "align" button is just a "point me in that direction, and accelerate to max speed" UI / UX simplification.
"Warp" is "spin up the drives, we're GTFO". The fact that you (might) have to align first is irrelevant.

While the game "can" figure out "oh yeah, he's gonna be on grid still", it's easier code-wise (and also a hold-over from the past ... with probably nightmare code around it) to just say "warp button is the trigger for stopping missiles" (it's also IIRC the trigger for stopping the next cycle on any modules not allowed to cycle while in warp).

Prior to the button, you would align by either:

1. double-click in space in the general direction of the station / gate that you were aligning to
2. warp, then cancel before getting up to speed (then manually set max speed).


edit to make you all think I can spell

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-06-05 12:01:38 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Has done this for 11 years now.


Couldn't you just use that to argue against every improvement ever made?

Honestly, I see no reason missiles should go away after you warp off other than coding simplicity. While one could say that it allows you to gank people and get away while the missiles are flying, this is kind of a moot point when guns can do their damage instantly. I really don't see how this could screw up balance, it would just require some strategic rethinking on the pilot's part.
ViRtUoZone
Spitfire Syndicate
#7 - 2014-06-05 16:31:48 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
because hitting warp nukes your missiles. Has done this for 11 years now.

Working as intended.

mechanics of the game, such that you would otherwise be able to still be "shooting" things after you've warped off (because missile flight time).



Why is this 'as intended'?
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-06-05 17:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
ViRtUoZone wrote:
Why is this 'as intended'?

Cloaked gang of stealth bombers aligns, decloaks, fires torpedos, warps off. The target dies and there is nothing anyone can do about it. That's why.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-06-05 17:08:59 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
ViRtUoZone wrote:
Why is this 'as intended'?

Cloaked gang of stealth bombers aligns, decloaks, fires torpedos, warps off. The target dies and there is nothing anyone can do about it. That's why.

except firewalls, defender missiles, warping off themselves, tanking it.

You know, everything.
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-06-05 17:09:38 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
ViRtUoZone wrote:
Why is this 'as intended'?

Cloaked gang of stealth bombers aligns, decloaks, fires torpedos, warps off. The target dies and there is nothing anyone can do about it. That's why.


oh, so like launching bombs on a gate then?
Llyona
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#11 - 2014-06-05 17:09:57 UTC
ViRtUoZone wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
because hitting warp nukes your missiles. Has done this for 11 years now.

Working as intended.

mechanics of the game, such that you would otherwise be able to still be "shooting" things after you've warped off (because missile flight time).



Why is this 'as intended'?


Anyone who says something is "working as intended" without citing a developer stating such, is full of excrement.

Frankly, I think it's just another case of lazy coding from a decade ago. CCP can't be bothered to fix their horrid coding and just complains about it like we should feel sorry for them. Frankly, I think CCP should HTFU and fix their code.

EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.

SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#12 - 2014-06-05 17:22:44 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
ViRtUoZone wrote:
Why is this 'as intended'?

Cloaked gang of stealth bombers aligns, decloaks, fires torpedos, warps off. The target dies and there is nothing anyone can do about it. That's why.



Filed under, "Explanations that make zero sense." There's nothing outsized about the alpha of missiles that makes that a problem that would need solving in such a clumsy fashion, the "mechanic" has existed much longer than bombers have (especially in their current form), and that's PRECISELY what bombers do with bombs.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#13 - 2014-06-05 17:24:28 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
ViRtUoZone wrote:
Why is this 'as intended'?

Cloaked gang of stealth bombers aligns, decloaks, fires torpedos, warps off. The target dies and there is nothing anyone can do about it. That's why.



This.....

While the target(s) may die all the same, they at least have the chance to take one down on the way out.

Or you'd just have missile teams warp in, warp out, warp in, warp out.


Get to "blob" level and assume if locked up in a bubble city all the larger crews have to do is land missile boats staggered, 20 land , fire leave, 20 land fire leave. Couple cycles like this that first wave is already inbound again from its warp off. Just keep up bubble/dictor pressure and man it gets ugly fast if stuck.

SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#14 - 2014-06-05 17:37:58 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Zan Shiro wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
ViRtUoZone wrote:
Why is this 'as intended'?

Cloaked gang of stealth bombers aligns, decloaks, fires torpedos, warps off. The target dies and there is nothing anyone can do about it. That's why.



This.....

While the target(s) may die all the same, they at least have the chance to take one down on the way out.

Or you'd just have missile teams warp in, warp out, warp in, warp out.


Get to "blob" level and assume if locked up in a bubble city all the larger crews have to do is land missile boats staggered, 20 land , fire leave, 20 land fire leave. Couple cycles like this that first wave is already inbound again from its warp off. Just keep up bubble/dictor pressure and man it gets ugly fast if stuck.



That's the kind of cunning strategy that someone who is completely unfamiliar with the game, its mechanics, and its math might come up with after being lobotomized.

There's nothing special about missiles that would be applicable to this strategy. Tornadoes would do VASTLY more alpha, that would be instantly applied, would be far less avoidable, and could be used at comparable ranges.

This would be true REGARDLESS of whether or not missiles failed when you warped. They would STILL be inferior for the kind of strategy you described.

If I replace "missile boats" with "gun boats" I make your blob better in every regard, so explain, again, what problem you imagine missile-poof fixes?

None of that, mind you, is to suggest that the core concept is particularly sound. I mean, you've engineered a scenario where one side has both a sheer numbers advantage and a damage application advantage, but that should really illustrate why this "concern" is so utterly bullshit: You fabricated this scenario where you gave one side every advantage as a means of demonstrating why non-poofing missiles would be "OP", and yet, if we just find-and-replace "missile boat" -> "Gun boat" the strategy becomes objectively more powerful than it could ever be with missiles.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

ViRtUoZone
Spitfire Syndicate
#15 - 2014-06-05 18:17:06 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
ViRtUoZone wrote:
Why is this 'as intended'?

Cloaked gang of stealth bombers aligns, decloaks, fires torpedos, warps off. The target dies and there is nothing anyone can do about it. That's why.



It's no different for Tier 3 BC's with guns.