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Counter to Rail Comet?
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#21 - 2014-06-04 11:51:33 UTC
Try a sentinel or any frig you can decently fit a damp.

Neuts just ruin their day and sentinel neut range is about the same as their lock range. (think 28km faction point on this bad boy)

Sensor range damps will bring him in or send him on his way.
Von Pazzo
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-06-04 12:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Von Pazzo
Catalytic morphisis wrote:
Von Pazzo wrote:




stuff you don't want to face a rail comet in:
blaster boats, unless you have 2 webs and a hefty tank (pretty much only another comet)


Actually daredevil, 90% web, OL that ***** and snag him, Plus with 400mm plate you got plenty of tank and about 400 DPS standard, You will beat him once you're in close enough to apply your DPS properly, its all about how you get into range though




yeah i specified i wouldn't get into pirate frigs cause they're a glaringly obvious counter and frankly in another league. I'd never fit a 400 plate on a DD but that's another topic really xD

Also if you're talking AB daredevil (i guess so with a 400, didnt eft it tbh) a nano comet pilot must be braindead to get webbed unless you're rocking a fed navy web (and i'd never fly a DD without a fed navy web) in which case he just need to be some pro wannabe ******* up manual piloting when he really just needs to orbit or even easier keep at range fighting a ship going what 1k/s 1.4 hot in a projectile of a boat going 4k/s+

Onn Xetis wrote:

Yeah i'm trying in a firetail now, seems that i have to get really close to him to outtrack his gun?


yeah, orbit @ 500 with ACs and you're golden, a TD with tracking disruption script helps, otherwise if he load javelin he still might (will) out dps you. Good manual piloting on his part might reduce transversal enough to still be able tohit you consistently if he's not double webbed
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-06-04 12:23:15 UTC
Von Pazzo wrote:
if we talking about a scram kitey Comet, that fit won't work. Difference in DPS is not enough to compensate the relatively massive tank an AB railcomet can fit (200mm plate + ANP II + SAAR/SAR II).

It could, actually.

Comet: 6,900 EHP against void, 150 EHP/s tank while nanite paste lasts, 50 EHP/S after that, 180 dps

Merlin: 3,850 EHP against navy antimatter+Hobs, 190 EHP/s tank while cap boosters last, 250 dps

Both ancillary reppers last about 25s. In this first phase:
. Comet takes 100 dps --> 2,500 EHP dmg --> 4,400 EHP remaining
. Merlin tanks all incoming dmg

Merlin is left with 3,850 EHP that will last about 21s against the Comet's 180 dps. 21s of 200 dps is 4,200 EHP vs. the Comet's 4,400. Close, at least!


This is obviously pure theory, assuming a slugfest with everything oh'd the whole fight, farily typical fits, both pilots' skills all lvl 5, no implants, everything hitting for 100% dmg (it's actually chance based) etc....

Actual fight could go a hundred different ways, but the 'in your face' Merlin does have a chance. It has higher alpha and shorter weapon cycle time, for example. If it orbited close with navy antimatter instead of blasting away with void (which is arguably more fun though Lol) it would suffer a lesser dps penatly, etc...


Personally against comets I'm 3 kills - 1 draw - 0 losses with that Merlin, but so far none of them were rail+plate+anp+saar fit. I'll let you know if I nab one, or if one nabs me. Big smile

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#24 - 2014-06-04 13:55:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Phox Jorkarzul wrote:
Valatie wrote:
Without going into pirate factions, I think the hookbill might stand a chance if fitted and flown correctly.

As for pirate factions, the new Worm will eat them alive, and the succubus can disengage at will. In the hands of a skilled pilot a blaster daredevil can emerge on top, but I imagine dramiels and cruors will be dumpstered by a good rail comet.


A dual web Hookbill can kill a Rail Comet, it is a close fight but they can. But you are right all most every pirate frig will eat a rail come up.


A rail Comet will beat a dual web hookbill most of the time, at least the ones that are using my fit.

I'll take on just about any frig turret frig in the Rail comet. The only big exceptions being the Harpy and the Ishkur which will both wreck a rail Comet most of the time. The comet is one of the absolute best scramkiters in the game and there really isn't much you can do to counter it other than fitting especially for it or flying one of the few ships that can take it on.

Ignore any posts about trying to get under the guns of the comet in anything other than a dual web firetail or maybe a dramiel. It won't work.

Also ignore posts about any merlin beating the rail comet because that **** is just a bit funny. Also a merlin using VOID against a scramkite comet? Waht?

ALSO ignore posts about flying a sentinel because it won't let you beat comets, it will just make them not fight you.

Neut tristan will also not work unless the comet pilot is incompetent, and a blaster comet CAN win but i've never lost to one.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#25 - 2014-06-04 13:55:57 UTC
The worm is the counter to everything right now - including the Rail Comet.
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-06-04 15:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Baron' Soontir Fel
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
AB / dual web / MASB / 2x mag stab / blaster Merlin


Don't use MASB on a Blaster Merlin.

I've fought other Merlins and Comets at point blank range and you don't rep fast enough to stay alive. When both of you are putting out 300dps, you want a buffer tank as a rep will die a fast death with 1/2 your cycles unused.



I've tried it multiple times, just fit a MAPC with a MSE, 2 magstabs and one hybrid dmg rig.


@ Garviel Tenant

It's a dual web merlin meaning he'll be able to catch a scram kiter with a OH ab. The comet just has to see that he isn't being scrammed.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-06-04 15:03:52 UTC
Garviel, first of all I bow to your superior experience. Also, I'll take this opportunity to thank you for all your posts here and over on failheap that have been and will continue to be a good read and a big help to my solo endeavours.

Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Also ignore posts about any merlin beating the rail comet because that **** is just a bit funny. Also a merlin using VOID against a scramkite comet? Waht?
The gimmick that gives the Merlin a chance is ab/dual-web/MASB, provided the fight starts close enough (else, sure it will take forever to close the distance with just a couple 100 m/s speed difference).

Naturally, a good comet pilot will just warp off before popping.

But not all pilots are good, not all pilots keep their cool in a 30-40 second fight if something unexpected happens, many rail comet pilots (me, at least, when I fly them) will usually feel overconfident when facing a Merlin and may make mistakes, not all scramkite rail comets have a 200mm plate for that extra buffer.

I agree a well-flown rail comet can kill any T1/Navy frig with relative ease, that's why I rarely fly them anymore. Big smile

I suggested a ship/fit that will not always work, but does have a good chance and is pretty hilarious when it does work.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2014-06-04 15:17:13 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Garviel, first of all I bow to your superior experience. Also, I'll take this opportunity to thank you for all your posts here and over on failheap that have been and will continue to be a good read and a big help to my solo endeavours.

Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Also ignore posts about any merlin beating the rail comet because that **** is just a bit funny. Also a merlin using VOID against a scramkite comet? Waht?
The gimmick that gives the Merlin a chance is ab/dual-web/MASB, provided the fight starts close enough (else, sure it will take forever to close the distance with just a couple 100 m/s speed difference).

Naturally, a good comet pilot will just warp off before popping.

But not all pilots are good, not all pilots keep their cool in a 30-40 second fight if something unexpected happens, many rail comet pilots (me, at least, when I fly them) will usually feel overconfident when facing a Merlin and may make mistakes, not all scramkite rail comets have a 200mm plate for that extra buffer.

I agree a well-flown rail comet can kill any T1/Navy frig with relative ease, that's why I rarely fly them anymore. Big smile

I suggested a ship/fit that will not always work, but does have a good chance and is pretty hilarious when it does work.



Ehh i don't think it will work at all ever if the Comet pilot isn't terrible.. Maybe if the fight starts at zero and everything goes perfectly for the merlin.. The thing is to properly tank a scram rail comet you would need to rig it just against thermic/kinetic damage really.. which of course would be very gimpy. Otherwise you don't have enough.. A comet with some cheap implants is dealing around 235 dps overheated and even with dual webs you probably can't get the speed difference up to properly mitigate that.

Maybe with crystals? Or links of course, links **** all such discussions up.. But all in all i would bet on the comet about 49/50 times.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-06-04 15:38:38 UTC
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
I've tried it multiple times, just fit a MAPC with a MSE, 2 magstabs and one hybrid dmg rig.
Thanks, will surely try it out!

Garviel Tarrant wrote:
But all in all i would bet on the comet about 49/50 times.
I actually do use anti-therm&kin rigs (corpmate suggestion)... I'll let you know how your 49/50 bet went if/when I get at least 5 fights vs. properly fit rail comets. Big smile

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Onn Xetis
Wrongly Invested
#30 - 2014-06-05 05:35:34 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


Ignore any posts about trying to get under the guns of the comet in anything other than a dual web firetail or maybe a dramiel. It won't work.



Thanks for your experiece Garviel. Since you mentioned a dual web firetail instead of a TD one, i have some doubts here.

It seems that at any given engagement distance the rail comet will have a higher applied dps than firetail, so how will I have to maneuver my ship once i gain range control with dual web, in order to kill that comet faster?
Or more generally, if a ship can out-dps me at any range and out-track me, should I just burn away?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#31 - 2014-06-05 07:16:27 UTC
Onn Xetis wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


Ignore any posts about trying to get under the guns of the comet in anything other than a dual web firetail or maybe a dramiel. It won't work.



Thanks for your experiece Garviel. Since you mentioned a dual web firetail instead of a TD one, i have some doubts here.

It seems that at any given engagement distance the rail comet will have a higher applied dps than firetail, so how will I have to maneuver my ship once i gain range control with dual web, in order to kill that comet faster?
Or more generally, if a ship can out-dps me at any range and out-track me, should I just burn away?

Firetail is fast enough to orbit a dual-webbed Comet. Rails won't out-track autos.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Onn Xetis
Wrongly Invested
#32 - 2014-06-05 08:20:51 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Onn Xetis wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


Ignore any posts about trying to get under the guns of the comet in anything other than a dual web firetail or maybe a dramiel. It won't work.



Thanks for your experiece Garviel. Since you mentioned a dual web firetail instead of a TD one, i have some doubts here.

It seems that at any given engagement distance the rail comet will have a higher applied dps than firetail, so how will I have to maneuver my ship once i gain range control with dual web, in order to kill that comet faster?
Or more generally, if a ship can out-dps me at any range and out-track me, should I just burn away?

Firetail is fast enough to orbit a dual-webbed Comet. Rails won't out-track autos.


Ah I see the point here.

The main confusion concerned with projectiles for me now, is that i have to control my range extremely carefully. If i'm too close blaster and rockets will doom me, if i'm too far scorch and light missiles will laugh at me. Not to mention how these ships tank well.

So unlike antimatter and scorch, it seems that I have to think carefully about my next engagement distance, is that true?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#33 - 2014-06-05 15:08:29 UTC
garviel doesn't even log in
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#34 - 2014-06-06 02:05:38 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
garviel doesn't even log in


Don't have time to log in with all the shitposting i have to do.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

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