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Giving Drones an assist - redux

First post
Author
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#21 - 2014-06-03 20:43:32 UTC
Rikki Bigg wrote:
Correct, when I try to fit the DLA II I get the message:

You do not have the required skills to do that. To fit and use that item requires having learned the following skill : Drone Avionics : Level 5.

That's pretty screwed up.
Carolin Andreste
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-06-03 22:03:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Carolin Andreste
Carolin Andreste wrote:
Rikki Bigg wrote:
And as far as the underlined portion of your comment, no, it wasn't; it was posted on the 30'th of May, giving exactly zero players to train Scout Drone Operation to V from 0 if they chose.

Though I'm going by memory, I was myself aware of the SDO thing much earlier, because I had time to train all the characters I wanted to SDO 5. If some got the news later than others that is indeed unfortunate.

Well I found the blog post from CCP that told of the revised drone skill reassignment rules, and it's from April 3rd, not May 30th.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#23 - 2014-06-03 22:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Carolin Andreste wrote:

Well I found the blog post from CCP that told of the revised drone skill reassignment rules, and it's from April 3rd, not May 30th.

The skill change to DLA's happened far later.
With the changed skills the DLA was first on Sisi using Light Drone Operation to the same levels as Combat Drone Operation. I don't have a date for when it happened because I only found out the skills changed today. None of my characters are personally affected but I do know several who are affected which means there will be a lot more affected by this.

Confirmed by searching, as of May 18th at least on Sisi
Tau Cabalander wrote:
If only there was a test server with the Kronos release on it Roll

Requirements:

T1: Light Drones Operation Level III + Drones Level III
T2: Light Drones Operation Level V + Drones Level III
Paul Panala
Among Shadows
Shadows of Eden
#24 - 2014-06-03 22:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Panala
I had both skills trained to 5 long ago, so I guess I am fine. But this entire thing seems a bit unfair.

Someone with SDO to 5 and not CDO basically got 512,000 free SP
Someone with CDO to 5 and not SDO is now required to train 256,000 more SP for the same filling options
Someone with both SDO and CDO to 5 is exactly where they were before the patch.

I guess I can't complain about newer players getting a few free skill points, I just feel like they could have done this better.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-06-03 22:12:46 UTC
Carolin Andreste wrote:
Well I found the blog post from CCP that told of the revised drone skill reassignment rules, and it's from April 3rd, not May 30th.

The skill clarification was made on the dev blog only on May 30. It sat in a forum post for weeks prior to the dev blog edit.

I also agree with OP's point of Drone Avionics.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Rikki Bigg
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#26 - 2014-06-03 22:16:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rikki Bigg
Carolin Andreste wrote:
Carolin Andreste wrote:
Rikki Bigg wrote:
And as far as the underlined portion of your comment, no, it wasn't; it was posted on the 30'th of May, giving exactly zero players to train Scout Drone Operation to V from 0 if they chose.

Though I'm going by memory, I was myself aware of the SDO thing much earlier, because I had time to train all the characters I wanted to SDO 5. If some got the news later than others that is indeed unfortunate.

Well I found the blog post from CCP that told of the revised drone skill reassignment rules, and it's from April 3rd, not May 30th.


So if the bill of goods I was being sold in the dev blog/advertisement was changed two days after the post, why did it take two months to update the bill of goods (the dev blog)?

Debating how CCP dropped the ball with updating the dev blog aside, it doesn't fix the issue I have with the ability to use a Drone Link Augmentor II.
Miss Masquerade
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-06-03 22:34:32 UTC
I was about to QQ, then I remember the extra 6 (or so) million free SP that CCP pushed onto my characters after
the change to/of racial BC's and Destroyers.

So, nevermind! Bear
Rikki Bigg
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#28 - 2014-06-03 22:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rikki Bigg
Paul Panala wrote:
I had both skills trained to 5 long ago, so I guess I am fine. But this entire thing seems a bit unfair.

Someone with SDO to 5 and not CDO basically got 512,000 free SP
Someone with CDO to 5 and not SDO is now required to train 256,000 more SP for the same filling options
Someone with both SDO and CDO to 5 is exactly where they were before the patch.

I guess I can't complain about newer players getting a few free skill points, I just feel like they could have done this better.



  1. Technically, someone with SDO and CDO V got 256000 free sp, as SDO is a 1x, CDO is a 2x, Light is 1x, Med is 2x, and Drone Avionics is 1x. A return of 4sp for every 3 invested (+1 bonus).

  2. A player that ignored the dev blog due to word of mouth (or players that had read the post buried on page 32 in the thread) and trained (or more likely already had, due to sentries/carrier/etc) SDO V and CDO 0 trained a 1x skill, and got a 1x, a 2x, and kept the 1x they trained. A return of 4sp for every 1 invested (+3 bonus).

  3. A player that follwed the dev blog, and trained CDO V but has SDO 0 trained a 2x skill, and got a 1x and a 2x skill in return. A return of 3sp for every 2 invested (+1 bonus).

  4. With the issue that they don't have Drone Avionics required to use the Drone Link Augmentor they could use before, requiring an additional 1x skill trained. Still +1 bonus, the same as players that had both trained before the patch.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#29 - 2014-06-03 22:39:45 UTC
Rikki Bigg wrote:



  1. Technically, someone with SDO and CDO V got 256000 free sp, as SDO is a 1x, CDO is a 2x, Light is 1x, Med is 2x, and Drone Avionics is 1x. A return of 4sp for every 3 invested (+1 bonus).

  2. A player that ignored the dev blog due to word of mouth (or players that had read the post buried on page 32 in the thread) and trained (or more likely already had, due to sentries/etc) SDO V and CDO 0 trained a 1x skill, and got a 1x, a 2x, and kept the 1x they trained. A return of 4sp for every 1 invested (+3 bonus).

  3. A player that follwed the dev blog, and trained CDO V but has SDO 0 trained a 2x skill, and got a 1x and a 2x skill in return. A return of 3sp for every 2 invested (+1 bonus).

  4. With the issue that they don't have Drone Avionics required to use the Drone Link Augmentor they could use before, requiring an additional 1x skill trained. Still +1 bonus, the same as players that had both trained before the patch.

1-3 are irrelevant since they have nothing to do with this issue.
The only relevant thing is that CCP made a last minute change (See above page, it was checked on May 18th and was changed after that) and didn't clearly announce this which has resulted in people who could use the DLA II before now facing as much as a five day train to be able to use it now. This is clearly against their standard approach of 'If you could use it before you can use it now' and may be an oversight caused by the last minute change.
Rikki Bigg
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#30 - 2014-06-03 22:43:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rikki Bigg
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

1-3 are irrelevant since they have nothing to do with this issue.
The only relevant thing is that CCP made a last minute change (See above page, it was checked on May 18th and was changed after that) and didn't clearly announce this which has resulted in people who could use the DLA II before now facing as much as a five day train to be able to use it now. This is clearly against their standard approach of 'If you could use it before you can use it now' and may be an oversight caused by the last minute change.


I was just trying to explain that everyone did benefit from the changes, as players seemed to have the perspective that if they had CDO and SDO before the change, they broke even.

But you are correct, the issue is Drone Link Augmentors.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-06-03 23:04:23 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
This may seem like a silly question, but it would match the approach taken by CCP in the past:

Have you physically tried to fit a DLA I or DLA II to a ship since the patch?

No it would not. Go learn how skill requirements work and why that makes you wrong about "the approach taken by CCP in the past."

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2014-06-03 23:05:30 UTC
Miss Masquerade wrote:
I was about to QQ, then I remember the extra 6 (or so) million free SP that CCP pushed onto my characters after
the change to/of racial BC's and Destroyers.

So, nevermind! Bear

Yes, I utterly rejoiced at an arbitrary number growing larger and having to pay for a more expensive clone when I get podded.

Although it was nice training for an Archon without having to train Amarr Battleship V.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Ohhhh Feely Nice
Feely Good Logistics
#33 - 2014-06-04 00:45:48 UTC
I got screwed over with the Battlecruiser/Destroyer changes. Being a new player at the time I was not setup to take advantage of that free 3-4 months of free trianing.

Now I got screwed over again, this time for actually following the blog. Lost 32 man days total, which we can value at roughly 750mil ISK.

Which explains WHY people are upset about this. I wonder how the nay-sayers would feel if CCP were to randomly blow up their faction fit T3 worth 750mil while in space. When they ask for reimbursement, they tell them "sorry but working as intended".

Would love to see how they would react.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#34 - 2014-06-04 00:49:07 UTC
You lost nothing, your SP actually went up, not down.
But take that whine to a different thread. This isn't about SP.

This is about the fact that people who could use DLA II's before now can't and have to train for up to 5 days to get them back.
Ohhhh Feely Nice
Feely Good Logistics
#35 - 2014-06-04 00:56:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ohhhh Feely Nice
Do you deny that the 8 days I trained CDO to V for is not wasted today?
Do you deny that if I had trained for any other skillpoints instead, I would have exactly that many more skillpoints right now?
Do you deny that in such instance I'd still have the exact same drone skills I have today, just with more other skills?

Disable your skill queue for 8 days on all accounts please. If you are unwilling to do so you are admitting it matters.
If CCP stopped your skill queue for 8 days, would you be pissed? Would you perhaps QQ on the forums about it?

Hypocrites, you all would.



Moreover:

CDO V (10 days full training) gives you Light/Med Drone V, nothing else.
SDO V (5 days full training) gives you Light/Med Drone V and Drone Avionics V.

Why would a 1x skill be giving more than a 2x skill? So it's not even just the one problem; the whole thing is arbitrary and completely illogical. If you don't see it, don't know what else to say. It's pretty obvious.

Defending this is defending stupidity. Especially considering the dev blog was never stated the updated changes with SDO V. NEVER.


Now once again.... please go disable your skill queue for 8 days on all accounts. Just like I did when I trained CDO to V for no reason due to the dev blog. When you are unwilling to, recognize why, and support my point here.
Rikki Bigg
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#36 - 2014-06-04 02:11:45 UTC
Ohhhh Feely Nice wrote:
Do you deny that the 8 days I trained CDO to V for is not wasted today?
Do you deny that if I had trained for any other skillpoints instead, I would have exactly that many more skillpoints right now?
Do you deny that in such instance I'd still have the exact same drone skills I have today, just with more other skills?

Disable your skill queue for 8 days on all accounts please. If you are unwilling to do so you are admitting it matters.
If CCP stopped your skill queue for 8 days, would you be pissed? Would you perhaps QQ on the forums about it?

Hypocrites, you all would.



Moreover:

CDO V (10 days full training) gives you Light/Med Drone V, nothing else.
SDO V (5 days full training) gives you Light/Med Drone V and Drone Avionics V.

Why would a 1x skill be giving more than a 2x skill? So it's not even just the one problem; the whole thing is arbitrary and completely illogical. If you don't see it, don't know what else to say. It's pretty obvious.

Defending this is defending stupidity. Especially considering the dev blog was never stated the updated changes with SDO V. NEVER.


Now once again.... please go disable your skill queue for 8 days on all accounts. Just like I did when I trained CDO to V for no reason due to the dev blog. When you are unwilling to, recognize why, and support my point here.


Your point seems rather dull when you drone on and one about it.

Yes I am sympathetic to you, and to others that didn't get the best deal with regards to the training. CCP set a bad precedent when they allowed Scout Drone Operations to turn into Light and Medium Drones, particularly since they had already announced Combat Drones as the standard (and since Combat gave the relevant bonuses through its levels, while Scout gave range bonuses). It's really quite pitiable that a company whose motto is HTFU didn't tell their players that in this case. Everyone had two months of time to train Combat to gain Light/Med from the announcement.

Yes, it leaves a poor taste that players with both skills trained feel slighted. Yes, it leaves an equally bad taste for players like you that followed the official information presented in the devblog that feel as if they wasted training time.

But the issue, and the reason that you will get so many players dismissing you without a moments pause is that you lack leverage on the issue.

Get behind an issue that has leverage, and when the issue becomes exposed to more people, it might develop into a situation where you can feel that you have received some satisfaction towards your grievance.

In the meantime (and by total chance, in a related topic) players that had Combat Drone Operation trained to V before the update were able to use Drone Link Augmentor II modules. Players that had Combat Drone Operation trained to III were able to use the T1 and meta versions. Oddly, these players cannot now...
Xasnevian
sadfadsfadsadsf
#37 - 2014-06-04 07:16:36 UTC
Miss Masquerade wrote:
I was about to QQ, then I remember the extra 6 (or so) million free SP that CCP pushed onto my characters after
the change to/of racial BC's and Destroyers.

So, nevermind! Bear


Good for you! I'm glad you're happy with more skillpoints that give you no extra ability at all!
Luscius Uta
#38 - 2014-06-04 08:11:25 UTC
I think that the OP created this thread just to troll CCP. The only advantage that T2 Drone Link Augmenter has over the T1 version is few extra kilometers of drone control range. If the OP really cares so much about his drone control range, then he wouldn't leave his Scout Drone Operation skill at 0. Don't blame CCP for bad skill plans.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Belligerent Undesirables
#39 - 2014-06-04 08:30:28 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Given that they always say "if you can use it before, you can use it after" this sounds like an oversight to me.

That is not true

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.

Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-06-04 08:55:09 UTC
Rikki Bigg wrote:
I had Combat Drone Operation to level V (five) prior to the skill change.

I had Scout Drone Operation to level 0 (zero) prior to the skill change.

I now have Light Drones V, Medium Drones V, and Drone Avionics 0, working as intended.



The information with the change that was updated in the dev blog (too late to take advantage of it, mind you), indicated that if you had Scout Drone Operation V, you would also get Light/Medium V. It was never explicitly given as a reason, but the access of T2 Light/Med from the skill is likely the reason.

My issue is this, I was able to use Drone Link Augmentor II prior to the patch, by vitrue of Combat Drone Operation V. It was quite useful for repair/ecm drone range. Sadly now I am unable to.

All this could have been avoided had the original devblog been updated in a timely manner after the post was made, sadly it was not. I feel a double standard has been applied, with some players gaining an unfair advantage over others.

As much as I would love to demand Drone Avionics V to be able to use Drone Link Augmentor II's, I realize it wont happen (especially since Combat Drone Operation is gone, it is something that would have had to go through with the skill conversion). But I would like to have an open discussion with other players regarding their thoughts on the issue, or how it might have personally affected them.


restarted 2 dual account training to make sure i had the new skills on alts that needed them. the change to scout drone was in fact done in a timely manner and dozens of threads started mentioning it. i removed combat drone from all my skill queues as a result

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85