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[Kronos] Mining Barges and Exhumers

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marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#801 - 2014-06-03 13:12:01 UTC
Disappointing, about covers this patch as far as the Hulk is concerned, still the paltry ore bay which means Null Sec op's are out with Hulks unless you employ haulers, wasted accounts, wasted time, no matching increase in yields to cover this increased overhead, very Disappointing indeed.

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.
Uncle Shrimpa
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#802 - 2014-06-03 16:56:06 UTC
marly cortez wrote:
Disappointing, about covers this patch as far as the Hulk is concerned, still the paltry ore bay which means Null Sec op's are out with Hulks unless you employ haulers, wasted accounts, wasted time, no matching increase in yields to cover this increased overhead, very Disappointing indeed.



Maybe i got a different patch, but Hulks are beasts now

With Macks, you needed to have 12-14 Hulks to equal not hauling with Macks

Now, that has dropped to 5

Hulk is now 180,000m3/hr
Mack is 140,000m3/hr (Virtually unchanged)

so, if you have 5 hulks and a hauler, you get 900,000m3 per hour
if you have 6 Macks you get 840,000m3 per hour - minus hauling time

With the changes in DST and the ability to use freighters in null, one hauler can service a ton of miners

How again does this leave you dissapointed?

CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)
Kolnan
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#803 - 2014-06-03 18:06:58 UTC
Looks good! :D
Tex Steele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#804 - 2014-06-03 18:10:36 UTC
A nice change for the HULK would be to make the ore hold at least large enough to hold two cycles of the strip miners at max Orca or Rorqual boosts. Currently it will not, so ore must be transferred every 2 minutes or less to keep the hold from filling up.

Thanks
Roman Sequester
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#805 - 2014-06-03 18:27:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Roman Sequester
Tex Steele wrote:
A nice change for the HULK would be to make the ore hold at least large enough to hold two cycles of the strip miners at max Orca or Rorqual boosts. Currently it will not, so ore must be transferred every 2 minutes or less to keep the hold from filling up.

Thanks


i like the changes with the hulk, i get about 48 m2 per second (with Orca boost) when i used to get 43 m2. Another nice thing is that my hulk can do 2 full cycles and not completely fill up the ore hold. this gives me 259.599999 seconds of AFK time before I need to empty the ore hold. it used to be only 246 seconds. sometimes those extra seconds make the difference when coming back from the toilet :)

Tex, don't know what you mean... I have max skills and an orca with max mining links and the charicter has a mindlink as well. I get 2 full cycles without over filling the ore hold...
Uncle Shrimpa
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#806 - 2014-06-03 18:32:56 UTC
Tex Steele wrote:
A nice change for the HULK would be to make the ore hold at least large enough to hold two cycles of the strip miners at max Orca or Rorqual boosts. Currently it will not, so ore must be transferred every 2 minutes or less to keep the hold from filling up.

Thanks



Hehe, you haven't mined yet. Cycle time is 71 sec, but at a reduced amount.

Basically all bonuses for amount were rolled into reduction of cycle time

So, the hulk can in fact hold 2 cycles of all 3 strip miners with T2 crystals

See, CCP has answered your prayers

CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)
Uncle Shrimpa
Lap Dancers
Brothers of Tangra
#807 - 2014-06-03 18:35:34 UTC
The difference is in high sec with Orca, the time for the hold to fill is based on the tick prior to the third cycle, which is about 240 seconds.

In null with rorqual bonuses, that time is about 210 seconds

so, it is the same, but different

CCP Greyscale -Yup, we have data on what happens currently, but we're expecting those use patterns to change substantially when this release. There's a degree of "suck it and see" happening here :)
Darkblad
Doomheim
#808 - 2014-06-03 19:14:24 UTC
Warp Range

Completely unrelated to mining yield or tank, there's another change to the mining barges/exhumers.
The warpCapacitorNeed Attribute (invisible in the client) got changed to be equal to that of procurer/skiff.

A comparison table (created by Ing Harm) shows the impact of this change

"alle Berechnungen ohne Skills oder Imps" = "values without skills or implants"

While I'm pretty sure that a change was intended (yet not communicated) I'm suprised by the amount of warp range reduction.
As a practical test I warped with a Retriever, starting with full capacitor (skills @ 5).

Distance of destination: 85,3 AU
First stop after 41,7 AU (43,6 AU remaining)
Second stop after 35,8 AU (7,8 AU remaining)

NPE – ISD – RIP
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#809 - 2014-06-03 19:20:06 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Warp Range

Completely unrelated to mining yield or tank, there's another change to the mining barges/exhumers.
The warpCapacitorNeed Attribute (invisible in the client) got changed to be equal to that of procurer/skiff.

A comparison table (created by Ing Harm) shows the impact of this change

"alle Berechnungen ohne Skills oder Imps" = "values without skills or implants"

While I'm pretty sure that a change was intended (yet not communicated) I'm suprised by the amount of warp range reduction.
As a practical test I warped with a Retriever, starting with full capacitor (skills @ 5).

Distance of destination: 85,3 AU
First stop after 41,7 AU (43,6 AU remaining)
Second stop after 35,8 AU (7,8 AU remaining)



This is quite the pain in the ass.
Tex Steele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#810 - 2014-06-03 19:34:30 UTC
Tex Steele wrote:
A nice change for the HULK would be to make the ore hold at least large enough to hold two cycles of the strip miners at max Orca or Rorqual boosts. Currently it will not, so ore must be transferred every 2 minutes or less to keep the hold from filling up.

Thanks




OK - I just tried this. With Orca boosts, I used to get 1750 or so per 121.8 seconds.

And it would fill the hold in 1.5 cycles.

NOW, they have reduced the yield to 1412 (solving the problem I posted earlier, as now 2 cycles fit in the hold).

but they also reduced the cycle time to 82.8 under max boost.

I was getting 14.6 units per second previously.

Now I'm getting 17.05 units per second.

Oh, Max range with boosts was 25, now it is 32 KM.

Scanner range went from 22KM to 38 KM under boosts.

Very nice indeed!


I admit to being skeptical of the changes, but WOW. This is good. I'm impressed.
Tex Steele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#811 - 2014-06-03 19:36:57 UTC
Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
Tex Steele wrote:
A nice change for the HULK would be to make the ore hold at least large enough to hold two cycles of the strip miners at max Orca or Rorqual boosts. Currently it will not, so ore must be transferred every 2 minutes or less to keep the hold from filling up.

Thanks



Hehe, you haven't mined yet. Cycle time is 71 sec, but at a reduced amount.

Basically all bonuses for amount were rolled into reduction of cycle time

So, the hulk can in fact hold 2 cycles of all 3 strip miners with T2 crystals

See, CCP has answered your prayers



Yes. I just tried it and posted my results. 2 cycles do fit, with decreased yield. Decreased cycle time produced a 2.5 unit per second increase in yield.

Very nice
Tex Steele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#812 - 2014-06-03 19:40:23 UTC
Another note, too.

I saw this and forgot about it until I opened up the Hulk cargo bay.

Crystal size reduction is really nice. I like that change a lot!

Means being able to carry crystals for different kinds of ore, or more of them for when they break.

This is a nice change. Very cool.
Scarlett LaBlanc
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#813 - 2014-06-03 19:40:39 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Warp Range



While I'm pretty sure that a change was intended (yet not communicated) I'm suprised by the amount of warp range reduction.
As a practical test I warped with a Retriever, starting with full capacitor (skills @ 5).

Distance of destination: 85,3 AU
First stop after 41,7 AU (43,6 AU remaining)
Second stop after 35,8 AU (7,8 AU remaining)




Was it intended? I cant think of a reason to nerf the capacitor AND the yield. Will be posting this in the feed back thread
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#814 - 2014-06-03 19:46:48 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Warp Range

Completely unrelated to mining yield or tank, there's another change to the mining barges/exhumers.
The warpCapacitorNeed Attribute (invisible in the client) got changed to be equal to that of procurer/skiff.

A comparison table (created by Ing Harm) shows the impact of this change

"alle Berechnungen ohne Skills oder Imps" = "values without skills or implants"

While I'm pretty sure that a change was intended (yet not communicated) I'm suprised by the amount of warp range reduction.
As a practical test I warped with a Retriever, starting with full capacitor (skills @ 5).

Distance of destination: 85,3 AU
First stop after 41,7 AU (43,6 AU remaining)
Second stop after 35,8 AU (7,8 AU remaining)




but I swear I read somewhere that ccp would inform the community of all changes being made.
Liam Benjamin Templaris
Ordo Templaris Industries
#815 - 2014-06-03 19:49:20 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Warp Range

Completely unrelated to mining yield or tank, there's another change to the mining barges/exhumers.
The warpCapacitorNeed Attribute (invisible in the client) got changed to be equal to that of procurer/skiff.

A comparison table (created by Ing Harm) shows the impact of this change

"alle Berechnungen ohne Skills oder Imps" = "values without skills or implants"

While I'm pretty sure that a change was intended (yet not communicated) I'm suprised by the amount of warp range reduction.
As a practical test I warped with a Retriever, starting with full capacitor (skills @ 5).

Distance of destination: 85,3 AU
First stop after 41,7 AU (43,6 AU remaining)
Second stop after 35,8 AU (7,8 AU remaining)


*************

this sucks big time! It takes forever to get anywhere now! Hate it!
Darkblad
Doomheim
#816 - 2014-06-03 20:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Warp Range

Completely unrelated to mining yield or tank, there's another change to the mining barges/exhumers.
The warpCapacitorNeed Attribute (invisible in the client) got changed to be equal to that of procurer/skiff.

A comparison table (created by Ing Harm) shows the impact of this change

"alle Berechnungen ohne Skills oder Imps" = "values without skills or implants"

While I'm pretty sure that a change was intended (yet not communicated) I'm suprised by the amount of warp range reduction.
As a practical test I warped with a Retriever, starting with full capacitor (skills @ 5).

Distance of destination: 85,3 AU
First stop after 41,7 AU (43,6 AU remaining)
Second stop after 35,8 AU (7,8 AU remaining)




but I swear I read somewhere that ccp would inform the community of all changes being made.
I admit that my search for some note regarding this may have been not too thorough (did a search on "warp" in posts by CCP Fozzie in the features&ideas forum section), but the first time I took notice of this change was when someone asked a DEV to confirm the change of said warpCapNeed in a chat channel (german help) - which he did (after querying CCP Fozzie iirc)

NPE – ISD – RIP
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#817 - 2014-06-04 04:33:42 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:

if u think mining for nearly 4 years is a lack of experience then sure. cant wait to see this.


I sure hope you're not implying I said your experiance is irrelavent.

All I have said is the system I have set up satisfies my mining needs in High Sec and CCP WILL NOT be able to convince me to move to low sec or null sec while my miners have no ability to shoot back.

I don't recall ever saying your ideas had no merit.

I HAVE said CCP is driving players who are looking for more mature gameplay (not PvP) away from EvE online and into other games.
THAT WORRIES ME!!!
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#818 - 2014-06-04 04:44:02 UTC
Liam Benjamin Templaris wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Warp Range

Completely unrelated to mining yield or tank, there's another change to the mining barges/exhumers.
The warpCapacitorNeed Attribute (invisible in the client) got changed to be equal to that of procurer/skiff.

A comparison table (created by Ing Harm) shows the impact of this change

"alle Berechnungen ohne Skills oder Imps" = "values without skills or implants"

While I'm pretty sure that a change was intended (yet not communicated) I'm suprised by the amount of warp range reduction.
As a practical test I warped with a Retriever, starting with full capacitor (skills @ 5).

Distance of destination: 85,3 AU
First stop after 41,7 AU (43,6 AU remaining)
Second stop after 35,8 AU (7,8 AU remaining)


*************

this sucks big time! It takes forever to get anywhere now! Hate it!


True, but it makes the miners even more available to gankers way from the stargates and stations, so it's a plus. (sarcasm fully intended)
Darkblad
Doomheim
#819 - 2014-06-04 05:47:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie's answer to Scarlett LaBlanc's quote of this:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Warp Range

Completely unrelated to mining yield or tank, there's another change to the mining barges/exhumers.
The warpCapacitorNeed Attribute (invisible in the client) got changed to be equal to that of procurer/skiff.

A comparison table (created by Ing Harm) shows the impact of this change

"alle Berechnungen ohne Skills oder Imps" = "values without skills or implants"

While I'm pretty sure that a change was intended (yet not communicated) I'm suprised by the amount of warp range reduction.
As a practical test I warped with a Retriever, starting with full capacitor (skills @ 5).

Distance of destination: 85,3 AU
First stop after 41,7 AU (43,6 AU remaining)
Second stop after 35,8 AU (7,8 AU remaining)



Found this in another forum, in regard to Retriever capacitor capacity. was the change intended or is it a bug?


It was a change that hit a bit harder than we intended. We're re-adjusting the warp capacitor usage of the barges and exhumers in a quick release either tomorrow or Thursday.
So there's some hope Blink

NPE – ISD – RIP
INeedMoneh
Locator Services
#820 - 2014-06-04 08:24:54 UTC
Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
marly cortez wrote:
Disappointing, about covers this patch as far as the Hulk is concerned, still the paltry ore bay which means Null Sec op's are out with Hulks unless you employ haulers, wasted accounts, wasted time, no matching increase in yields to cover this increased overhead, very Disappointing indeed.



Maybe i got a different patch, but Hulks are beasts now

With Macks, you needed to have 12-14 Hulks to equal not hauling with Macks

Now, that has dropped to 5

Hulk is now 180,000m3/hr
Mack is 140,000m3/hr (Virtually unchanged)

so, if you have 5 hulks and a hauler, you get 900,000m3 per hour
if you have 6 Macks you get 840,000m3 per hour - minus hauling time

With the changes in DST and the ability to use freighters in null, one hauler can service a ton of miners

How again does this leave you dissapointed?


I just have one miner fly a freigher too, 3-4 mins of hauling, hour of mining, minor amount of donwtime and 0 hassle with hauling

Also what gives with warp range, concidering now my hulks have to move even less not so much of a problem just slightly frustrating

Thanks again for such a QoL buff to the carreer miner!