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Market Exploit/Bug
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Preto Black
Solar Clipper Trading Company
#1 - 2014-06-02 21:25:55 UTC
I do not know how it is done, (possibly some rounding error method with lots of 9s) but there is a way to get a market order for the same price listed ahead of a previous order.


This is happening in the mineral market on Amarr, it has happened to me a couple of times the latest is in the
Pyrite market.

Someone currently has 5000 pyrite for sale at 12.45 ISK which was posted after the other market orders at 12.45 (which are mine).
Thoraemond
Far Ranger
#2 - 2014-06-03 00:23:24 UTC
Preto Black wrote:
I do not know how it is done, (possibly some rounding error method with lots of 9s) but there is a way to get a market order for the same price listed ahead of a previous order.

This is happening in the mineral market on Amarr, it has happened to me a couple of times the latest is in the
Pyrite market.Someone currently has 5000 pyrite for sale at 12.45 ISK which was posted after the other market orders at 12.45 (which are mine).

Unless things have changed in a recent patch, the key point is that the matching order that was posted first is the one that gets executed first by the Market Broker system. It doesn't matter (a) which order will expire first or (b) the order in which orders are displayed in the listing.

So as you say, a different order might be listed "ahead" of your order, but don't worry about that. If yours was posted first, it should be executed first.

• Graph re Market Order Broker Fees (Updated 2016-04-28) • Diagram re Skills for Remote Trading •
Preto Black
Solar Clipper Trading Company
#3 - 2014-06-03 00:40:51 UTC
If it is merely a display issue, I guess that is OK.

Although I suspect the person doing this is manipulating the market and part of that is how the market sell orders appear.

I was thinking the worst, as in the small order was a trigger to automatically place other orders and thus prevent my orders from ever being the lowest, but that is a very different issue of, using some automated process to inform a player of detaiiled market processes.
XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
Phantom-Recon
#4 - 2014-06-03 02:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: XxRTEKxX
The way I get orders to be placed ahead of another at equal price is by setting the duration to less than the other order. Since everyone does the max time, ill set for just 1 month and same price. Mine gets listed ahead of the 3 month order.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-06-03 09:45:16 UTC
Thoraemond wrote:
Preto Black wrote:
I do not know how it is done, (possibly some rounding error method with lots of 9s) but there is a way to get a market order for the same price listed ahead of a previous order.

This is happening in the mineral market on Amarr, it has happened to me a couple of times the latest is in the
Pyrite market.Someone currently has 5000 pyrite for sale at 12.45 ISK which was posted after the other market orders at 12.45 (which are mine).

Unless things have changed in a recent patch, the key point is that the matching order that was posted first is the one that gets executed first by the Market Broker system. It doesn't matter (a) which order will expire first or (b) the order in which orders are displayed in the listing.

So as you say, a different order might be listed "ahead" of your order, but don't worry about that. If yours was posted first, it should be executed first.


not true. it is the order with the lowest amount of time before it expires that gets executed 1st. so if someone with a 2 week duration posts the same price as someone with a 3 month duration the 2 week one will fill 1st even if listed 2nd.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#6 - 2014-06-03 10:36:03 UTC
I just tested it. The oldest order, not shortest, was bought as expected. Try for yourself and report back.

http://imgur.com/LX5NnhI

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Magnu Stormhawk
#7 - 2014-06-03 16:11:46 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
The way I get orders to be placed ahead of another at equal price is by setting the duration to less than the other order. Since everyone does the max time, ill set for just 1 month and same price. Mine gets listed ahead of the 3 month order.


But it doesnt get filled quicker.

The reason it appears to get listed above is due to the sorting feature of the market window. There is a primary and secondary sort. Everyone has the price column sorted so the lowest sell or highest buy is at the top, but if you sort by expiry date first, either way, and then sort by price, you get a different view in the price column depending on which way up you viewed the expiry column previously.

So you might see yours ahead whist they are the same price, but i might not.
350125GO
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-06-03 16:22:06 UTC
A similar thing happens on my Market Display, but with buy orders. If I place a regional buy order at the same price as an exisiting station or system only buy order, the regional buy order gets listed first. My guess is that in the station or system where the existing order was, that would still get filled first, but the regional goes to the top because it's globally available. I've never done this in the same system as an existing order, so I don't know if the listing shows that one first in that station.

You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.
Thoraemond
Far Ranger
#9 - 2014-06-04 00:31:02 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Thoraemond wrote:
Unless things have changed in a recent patch, the key point is that the matching order that was posted first is the one that gets executed first by the Market Broker system. It doesn't matter (a) which order will expire first or (b) the order in which orders are displayed in the listing.

not true. it is the order with the lowest amount of time before it expires that gets executed 1st. so if someone with a 2 week duration posts the same price as someone with a 3 month duration the 2 week one will fill 1st even if listed 2nd.

For the sake of clarity, I won't sugar-coat this: you're wrong. This is a commonly-held myth about the market broker system in New Eden.

It's the older order, not the shorter-duration order that is executed first. This has been true every time I've tested this myself over many years now, and see Elizabeth Norn's post in this very thread.

• Graph re Market Order Broker Fees (Updated 2016-04-28) • Diagram re Skills for Remote Trading •
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#10 - 2014-06-04 10:53:51 UTC
As thoraemond and liz said, it is the older order, display setup on your market screen may alter the order you see the orders in.

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#11 - 2014-06-04 13:37:35 UTC
though doesn't the eve client accept more than just "cents", and round from there in the display?

So you could conceivably put up an order for Trit @ 5.00 ... and then I could come along for an order of 5.004 and be out-bidding you insofar as the game backend is concerned.

I mean, there has to be SOME reason that I'm not allowed to trade the 100,000.67 ISK off my stupid alt, and I have to leave 0.01 ISK in their wallet ...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Magnu Stormhawk
#12 - 2014-06-05 16:03:39 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
though doesn't the eve client accept more than just "cents", and round from there in the display?

So you could conceivably put up an order for Trit @ 5.00 ... and then I could come along for an order of 5.004 and be out-bidding you insofar as the game backend is concerned.

I mean, there has to be SOME reason that I'm not allowed to trade the 100,000.67 ISK off my stupid alt, and I have to leave 0.01 ISK in their wallet ...


Although the market appears to accept numbers beyond two decimal places, and they are probably stored as such (and perhaps visible if you export the market), I believe the 'order of orders' is still determined by the rounded figure and not the exact figure.
Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
#13 - 2014-06-15 11:16:53 UTC
- you can user some decimal like 100.01 for adjust renewal order when time expire and pay a "small" renewal taxe its not necessary "]The war of the street hawkers" ( -0.01 isk rulers)

first 3 month 100.00 isk
second 3 month 100.01 isk
third 3 month 100.00 isk

some time if you dont check the place station of orders , its the first orders in book which are sell and not the order of you wants

It looks like a duplication of order for you but it is a normal behavior