These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Summer 2014] Starbase tweaks

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#381 - 2014-05-29 06:58:13 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:
I don't see how paying 600m a month for a pos would be justified unless a taxes in npc stations are bigger than the montly fuel fee.



You mean other than the time multipliers?

And the -2% to material requirements in the assembly arrays?

And that you can base out of a system with no manufacturing slots, so the percentage of build hours is tiny?


That system without stations in it is going to be pretty far away from major trade hub which is a no go for any industrialist with brain.Time=money.If you have to 20 freighter jump all day to get your stuff going.Its not worth it to search such system mainly because even system with stations are not so widely used few jumps from main trade hubs.
Joraa Starkmanir
Station Spinners United
#382 - 2014-05-29 07:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Joraa Starkmanir
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:
I don't see how paying 600m a month for a pos would be justified unless a taxes in npc stations are bigger than the montly fuel fee.



You mean other than the time multipliers?

And the -2% to material requirements in the assembly arrays?

And that you can base out of a system with no manufacturing slots, so the percentage of build hours is tiny?


That system without stations in it is going to be pretty far away from major trade hub which is a no go for any industrialist with brain.Time=money.If you have to 20 freighter jump all day to get your stuff going.Its not worth it to search such system mainly because even system with stations are not so widely used few jumps from main trade hubs.


4 jumps from Jita includes: Kylmabe(3), Ahtulaima(3), Mahtista(4), Ambeke(4), Piekura(4)
Thats 2 systems 3 jumps out, and 5 total if you go 4 jumps out.

For Amarr with same range you have: Hama(2), Barira(4), Merz(4), Murzi(4), Chesoh(3), Sitanan(4), Rasile(4), Zatsyka(2), Jennim(4), Seiradih(4), Martha(2), Ebidan(4), Kooreng(3), Shaggoth(4)
Thats 3 systems 2 jumps out, 5 if you go 3 jumps out, and 14 if you go 4 jumps out.

I would not call that far away from trade hubs, would you?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#383 - 2014-05-29 13:07:24 UTC
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:
Karash Amerius wrote:
Steve,

While I read the same forums as you do, I am obviously not privy to any sort of CSM info. The bottom line is, even with proposed changes such as modular starbases, has there really been players in Eve that have set up 20 towers and thought "Wow, this is so much fun".

No.

POSes exist because they HAVE to exist...not because they provide a fun gameplay mechanic; fairly tragic for such a promising enterprise we find ourselves in.


I dont think it was ever intended for players to use 20 POSes each, thats why its a CORP asset. If we ignore the hell that is currently corp roles it should be possible to have multiple POSes managed by several people, 1-2POS per manager in same system or 1 jump apart is not hard to maintain.



That is part of the problem, they HAD to be a corp asset from back when POS's were Point of Soverienty prior to Dominion or Apocypha (Can't remember) like YEARS ago and they have languished and been promised to be updated every year and every year it is like us playing Charlie Brown and kicking the football and CCP takes it away from us and we land flat on our backs again. All the while CCP is laughing
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#384 - 2014-05-29 14:22:43 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:

As has been said repeatedly, POS code is on the roadmap. It's not being abandoned. There are just some requirements to get out the way first.

Karash Amerius wrote:
Steve,

While I read the same forums as you do, I am obviously not privy to any sort of CSM info.


The general roadmap was shown as part of the Fanfest keynote stuff, it's not restricted to the CSM. It was something like this:

Industry stuff > Corps & Alliance mechanics > Starbases and outposts > Sovereignty & warfare > Stargate construction & control

Industry is will be pretty much done during the summer, so the next major project should be Corps & Alliances. Once that has been handled (and the horrific roles system overhauled) CCP will be in a good place to tackle starbases from scratch, in the same way they just did Industry.
Personally I'd expect to see some results of this starbase overhaul between Q2 and Q4 2015.

It would be nice if we could get some tweaks in the meantime though, such as re-balancing weapons to have stats from later than 2004.
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#385 - 2014-05-30 16:05:53 UTC
Just a question for the devs and if I don't get a response that is not a big deal but how modular could you make POS guns? Could you say give these items a High slot and 2 low slots and able to fit a gun of their required size.

For example I was thinking along the lines of allowing these to be more as a platform. So you have a Small Medium and Large Turret Platform and a small medium and large Missile Platform. Then give each of these a High Medium and Low. This would make POS's more unique and also allow for fitting much different types or guns on a POS as well as fitting in with the new gun Meta terricide that will be happening soonish.

Just a thought and would be cool if this is something that could be done.
Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#386 - 2014-05-30 19:07:45 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Maxdig wrote:
Any info on re-balance the cargo sizes a bit more of POS Assembly Arrays? Seen it asked about 5 times now with no response... 3 million m3 on the Component Assembly Array is not enough...


We aren't planning on adjusting cargo capacity further for now unfortunately.



Why the hell not? I thought you were working for us? Do as your told.

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#387 - 2014-05-31 16:52:20 UTC
Is the anchoring IV for starbase defense management thing still happening? Can't find it in the patch notes.
Bael Gar
Russian SOBR
#388 - 2014-05-31 18:39:57 UTC
If we are no longer allowed to research BPO from station hangar, how we are supposed to use ALLIANCE laboratories ??

Before KRONOS we could use any laboratory belongs to any corporation in alliance to start research job, while BPO was in corporate hangar at station. But after KRONOS we cannot start job from station and cannot put BPO into other corporation laboratory. It seems CCP removed very useful functionality from the game.
Sigras
Conglomo
#389 - 2014-05-31 22:05:14 UTC
Seith Kali wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Maxdig wrote:
Any info on re-balance the cargo sizes a bit more of POS Assembly Arrays? Seen it asked about 5 times now with no response... 3 million m3 on the Component Assembly Array is not enough...


We aren't planning on adjusting cargo capacity further for now unfortunately.

Why the hell not? I thought you were working for us? Do as your told.

The devs do not work for you or the advancement of your entitlement issues; they work for CCP and that means they reserve the right to ignore all ideas they believe are stupid.
Gliese Casserres
Confused Bunnies Inc
#390 - 2014-06-02 12:08:03 UTC
Bael Gar wrote:
If we are no longer allowed to research BPO from station hangar, how we are supposed to use ALLIANCE laboratories ??

Before KRONOS we could use any laboratory belongs to any corporation in alliance to start research job, while BPO was in corporate hangar at station. But after KRONOS we cannot start job from station and cannot put BPO into other corporation laboratory. It seems CCP removed very useful functionality from the game.
Indeed this feature has been the only thing allowing me to pursue industry gameplay in my one man corp. Can't afford to purchase, babysit, nor lose my own POS isk and time -wise, so I bought a lab for alliance pos and pay my share of fuel. All works well and everyone is happy.

Now if said functionality is removed I face 3 options: 1) dismantle the whole corp and join a bigger one 2) put up my own pos and wait for player generated content 3) say **** it to industry and put characters to orbit the beacon for candy.

Removing this functionality drives the sandbox even more to the direction of big corporations, generates more opportunities for infiltrators. Or if small corps choose to persist, expose themselves more to the wardec content and inevitable swarms of marauders tearing down your pos for lols when you chose to go out during weekend rather than dismantling your pos just in case.


TL;DR

Dev's are pissing to my corner of the sandbox and I don't like it. I'm too poor for own pos, and too non-committed to defend one against merc marauder swarm. Allow POS BPO research from stations in the future.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#391 - 2014-06-02 13:13:20 UTC
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Bael Gar wrote:
If we are no longer allowed to research BPO from station hangar, how we are supposed to use ALLIANCE laboratories ??

Before KRONOS we could use any laboratory belongs to any corporation in alliance to start research job, while BPO was in corporate hangar at station. But after KRONOS we cannot start job from station and cannot put BPO into other corporation laboratory. It seems CCP removed very useful functionality from the game.
Indeed this feature has been the only thing allowing me to pursue industry gameplay in my one man corp. Can't afford to purchase, babysit, nor lose my own POS isk and time -wise, so I bought a lab for alliance pos and pay my share of fuel. All works well and everyone is happy.

Now if said functionality is removed I face 3 options: 1) dismantle the whole corp and join a bigger one 2) put up my own pos and wait for player generated content 3) say **** it to industry and put characters to orbit the beacon for candy.

Removing this functionality drives the sandbox even more to the direction of big corporations, generates more opportunities for infiltrators. Or if small corps choose to persist, expose themselves more to the wardec content and inevitable swarms of marauders tearing down your pos for lols when you chose to go out during weekend rather than dismantling your pos just in case.


TL;DR

Dev's are pissing to my corner of the sandbox and I don't like it. I'm too poor for own pos, and too non-committed to defend one against merc marauder swarm. Allow POS BPO research from stations in the future.



Given anchoring mechanics are changing to remove the standings requirements, also if war dec'd you have 24 hrs to just pull your equipment down if you don't want to defend it with 0 loss there shouldn't really be the need to use an alliance pos.

If you don't want to put the BPO in a tower, just make use of station slots instead?

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#392 - 2014-06-02 13:21:52 UTC
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
Is the anchoring IV for starbase defense management thing still happening? Can't find it in the patch notes.


It's not for Kronos, this will go live with the main bulk of the industry changes after that.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#393 - 2014-06-02 16:59:23 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
Is the anchoring IV for starbase defense management thing still happening? Can't find it in the patch notes.


It's not for Kronos, this will go live with the main bulk of the industry changes after that.


Why is that? I mean okay its POSes and POSes can be used for industry, but POS defense happen in a lot of situations, and I bet that in most cases its not to defend an industry POS.

I could transport blueprints in my dramiel, its an industry activity. Does this mean that we would need to delay pirate faction rebalance to crius aswell? Blink

Being able to POS gun with anchoring IV is in my opinion a change that does not need to wait six more weeks before being implemented. Its not like ship balancing or something, six more weeks of discussing with the community won't change much :D You can't end up having the skill requiring level 4.25, it would either be 5 or 4.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Gliese Casserres
Confused Bunnies Inc
#394 - 2014-06-02 17:03:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Gliese Casserres
suid0 wrote:
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Bael Gar wrote:
If we are no longer allowed to research BPO from station hangar, how we are supposed to use ALLIANCE laboratories ??

Before KRONOS we could use any laboratory belongs to any corporation in alliance to start research job, while BPO was in corporate hangar at station. But after KRONOS we cannot start job from station and cannot put BPO into other corporation laboratory. It seems CCP removed very useful functionality from the game.
Indeed this feature has been the only thing allowing me to pursue industry gameplay in my one man corp. Can't afford to purchase, babysit, nor lose my own POS isk and time -wise, so I bought a lab for alliance pos and pay my share of fuel. All works well and everyone is happy.

Now if said functionality is removed I face 3 options: 1) dismantle the whole corp and join a bigger one 2) put up my own pos and wait for player generated content 3) say **** it to industry and put characters to orbit the beacon for candy.

Removing this functionality drives the sandbox even more to the direction of big corporations, generates more opportunities for infiltrators. Or if small corps choose to persist, expose themselves more to the wardec content and inevitable swarms of marauders tearing down your pos for lols when you chose to go out during weekend rather than dismantling your pos just in case.


TL;DR

Dev's are pissing to my corner of the sandbox and I don't like it. I'm too poor for own pos, and too non-committed to defend one against merc marauder swarm. Allow POS BPO research from stations in the future.



Given anchoring mechanics are changing to remove the standings requirements, also if war dec'd you have 24 hrs to just pull your equipment down if you don't want to defend it with 0 loss there shouldn't really be the need to use an alliance pos.

If you don't want to put the BPO in a tower, just make use of station slots instead?
I'd still rather pay someone else to carry the burden which a POS is. (Yes, I want to reap the benefits of a POS without owning and maintainaing it.)
[edit. forgot about limitless station sloths]
Current system is much more convenient and I can actually have few days off at a moments notice if I so please.
Veinnail
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#395 - 2014-06-02 17:12:49 UTC
I am a bit curious how this works into the lore. In the eve universe we can utilize technology like cloning and jump cloning, but we cannot refer a database remotely in order to access schematics that are available to our corporation?

I still feel like remote usage of information fits into the entire concept that Eve's galaxy plays into.

Joraa Starkmanir
Station Spinners United
#396 - 2014-06-03 21:20:28 UTC
Veinnail wrote:
I am a bit curious how this works into the lore. In the eve universe we can utilize technology like cloning and jump cloning, but we cannot refer a database remotely in order to access schematics that are available to our corporation?

I still feel like remote usage of information fits into the entire concept that Eve's galaxy plays into.



Easy lore reason: Giving workforce access to your hangars remotely are 99% likely to result in theft of everythign nto nailed down, while with local access it can be controlled who takes what and where. Due to the high number of thefts, Concord have passed universal laws against giving workforces remote access to anything.

Took like 10sec to make up this BS, lore is just a small part tho mostly its gameplay reasons. Risk-reward is totaly screwed when you can have your BPO's safe in station and still get the benefits of a POS.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#397 - 2014-06-04 23:00:11 UTC
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:
Veinnail wrote:
I am a bit curious how this works into the lore. In the eve universe we can utilize technology like cloning and jump cloning, but we cannot refer a database remotely in order to access schematics that are available to our corporation?

I still feel like remote usage of information fits into the entire concept that Eve's galaxy plays into.



Easy lore reason: Giving workforce access to your hangars remotely are 99% likely to result in theft of everythign nto nailed down, while with local access it can be controlled who takes what and where. Due to the high number of thefts, Concord have passed universal laws against giving workforces remote access to anything.

Took like 10sec to make up this BS, lore is just a small part tho mostly its gameplay reasons. Risk-reward is totaly screwed when you can have your BPO's safe in station and still get the benefits of a POS.


Except that contracts and PI as well as buy orders and even other industry job actions can be done remotely. There is nothing that makes it, even in your 10sec lore bs, consistant with the rest of the game.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#398 - 2014-06-05 00:10:49 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:
Veinnail wrote:
I am a bit curious how this works into the lore. In the eve universe we can utilize technology like cloning and jump cloning, but we cannot refer a database remotely in order to access schematics that are available to our corporation?

I still feel like remote usage of information fits into the entire concept that Eve's galaxy plays into.



Easy lore reason: Giving workforce access to your hangars remotely are 99% likely to result in theft of everythign nto nailed down, while with local access it can be controlled who takes what and where. Due to the high number of thefts, Concord have passed universal laws against giving workforces remote access to anything.

Took like 10sec to make up this BS, lore is just a small part tho mostly its gameplay reasons. Risk-reward is totaly screwed when you can have your BPO's safe in station and still get the benefits of a POS.


Except that contracts and PI as well as buy orders and even other industry job actions can be done remotely. There is nothing that makes it, even in your 10sec lore bs, consistant with the rest of the game.



You want more plausible BS?

The blueprints aren't schematics. They're the control codes for the nanite assemblers that all our stuff is made using, embedded in cartridges. And DRM is alive and well.

That's why you can only make limited copies, and can't copy those. And why invention has a failure rate (you're breaking adaptive DRM, and when you fail, the copy burns itself out)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Joraa Starkmanir
Station Spinners United
#399 - 2014-06-05 09:09:46 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:


Except that contracts and PI as well as buy orders and even other industry job actions can be done remotely. There is nothing that makes it, even in your 10sec lore bs, consistant with the rest of the game.


Contracts are agreements between 2 capsuleers, not the same as giving some low payed thief access to your corp hangar (most corps are very strict about who get that kind of access)
PI, you give orders to workers on a planet to do stuff, they have no way to get of that planet with your stuff.
Buy orders are like online shopping, and its limited to stations and can be controlled.
Other industry, im sure your thinking about those jobs where you have materials+blueprint already stored in the same place as your trying to make something? Would you let random PLAYERS move your BPO whenever you use a POS for manufacture or research?

The changes are plausible to explain with lore, but the main reason for the changes are GAMEPLAY!
Again, someone that have actualy read the eve lore and care alot about it may find other reasons than what i make up :P
Charuati Dranor
Amarr Alpha Force
#400 - 2014-06-05 10:20:09 UTC

It is conceivable that the cargo capacity change in the corporate hangar is preferred in order to compensate for the already active change in the capitals packing size?
It deprives the corporate hangar currently about 28.5% of its cargo capacity when a capital ship was stored.