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Domi/ishtar nerf please?

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Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#1 - 2014-06-01 20:40:12 UTC
I will keep this short since probably everyone knows what it is about. Domies and ishtars are OP, they can project dmg at very long range with tracking that can easily kill frigates with a bit of help. CCP kinda opnely admitted it with points distribution for AT. If you don' believe me just look at volumes of ishtars traded in jita and any other HAC. Fitting on both of these ships also allow for huge versatility.

With low slot trackin enhancers and changes incoming it will be even worse. Nerf tracking, fitting or atleast prevent them from fitting tracking upgrades. Make this game less dronish again :D
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-06-01 20:41:39 UTC
Maybe try flying something different against them?

I've killed more ishtars than i have gotten kills in my ishtar.

It's not that hard.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#3 - 2014-06-01 20:44:31 UTC
Im not saying you that I can't kill ishtar. This forum shouldn't be about **** like that.

Im talking about these ships clearly out performing any other ahac in their category and being hugely unbalanced.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-06-01 21:20:43 UTC
Do you have some numbers? Because when i look at rails i see similar tracking as sentrys, apart of garde, which have more tracking, but also dont have the range.

And we are still talking about 0.012 vs 0.03 , when say blaster have 0.09.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-06-01 21:25:17 UTC
I would point out again that to fly the ishtar and use drones effectively takes a huge investment in training. The performance of that combination of assets reflects that investment.
GreenSeed
#6 - 2014-06-01 21:38:15 UTC  |  Edited by: GreenSeed
people mistake ishtars for slowcats... just kill the drones. any Rail fleet can clear the field of sentries in a few volleys, even hulls with low alpha with spike like 200mm Moas can do it.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-06-02 00:19:15 UTC
Outperforming? You're going to have to be more specific on that one.
Chick Sauce
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-06-02 01:03:55 UTC
IMO you should have to remain within 5,000m of your sentries to retain control over them.

This would keep the combat more balanced IMO and bring back heavy drone usage.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-06-02 01:13:33 UTC
Sentry drones are getting nerfed in Kronos, nuff said.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-06-02 05:11:34 UTC
Domi in recent patching actually became a viable fleet bs. One needed for gallente, mega was not a shining star in this area. Short of blasterthron mugging gangs (thier only real +1) they collected up quite a few -1's. Versatile mega did not do...we can debate about how rokh is more versaitle in MR and LR as well as SR even in certain scenarios.


Not seeing ccp change this. You bring up AT...that would be why domi tracking got nerfed shortly after release. You got the nerf. Then they change omni's to pick either range or tracking. this nerfed sniper garde doctrine to an extent (as many garde spammers whined in these boards about it).
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-06-02 06:03:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Sentry drones are getting nerfed in Kronos, nuff said.


Having tested out my ishtar fleet that I run anomalies with on the test server to test their performance:

Lol. No, they aren't.


Curator I - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +18.15% damage
Warden I - +40% falloff, +12% damage
Garde I - +50% falloff, +2% damage
Bouncer I - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, +2.86% damage

Curator II - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +8.31% damage
Warden II - +40% falloff, +2.67% damage
Garde II - +50% falloff, -6.5% damage
Bouncer II - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, -5.71% damage

Gardes and bouncers are losing a little bit of damage, but gaining FAR better damage application
Curators are losing some un-used falloff, and getting a ton of tracking and damge
Wardens are just straight up getting buffed.

Whatever you are smoking, you may want to lay off a bit.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#12 - 2014-06-02 07:56:54 UTC
5km idea for retaining controll actually sounds pretty nice. Arronicus summaried it pretty well. Sentries are far from gettin nerfed.


After patch bouncer domi will have with bouncers trackin/optimal around 72km/0,026 in comparison to 0, 017 of megathron....both are numbers without any tracking modules. All of this while doing about 100more raw dps.


With blasters you achive better tracking than gardes by about 0,02. But here gardes are gonna have range 3times longer than blasters. On top of this dominix ends up with plenty of more slots where it can fit ewar/neuts/tracking.


On about gallente BS thingie...megathron with rails is very well performing fleet BS. When we were "inventing" them after buff of megas they proved to be effective, hence 6VDT battle where N3/test/tribe got owned by them and won their war. I think Domi is far from only viable drone boat.

In regards to "drones being hard to train"...i cant agree with that either. T1 sentries are easy to train, they don't perform as well as T2 ofcourse but it's same story as with T2 guns.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#13 - 2014-06-02 08:17:24 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
people mistake ishtars for slowcats... just kill the drones. any Rail fleet can clear the field of sentries in a few volleys, even hulls with low alpha with spike like 200mm Moas can do it.

You will be losing moas faster than they will be losing drones.
Sigras
Conglomo
#14 - 2014-06-02 09:19:49 UTC
first of all, they already addressed the point cost differentiation in the AT12 thread... In that particular scenario, where you have an arena that the opponent cant leave, and you already have a network of MJUs already set up in an area then yes, the power level of the ishtar/dominix is slightly above average...

Call me when that happens on TQ...
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-06-02 09:23:12 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
5km idea for retaining controll actually sounds pretty nice. Arronicus summaried it pretty well. Sentries are far from gettin nerfed.
That sounds actually quite hairbrained, what do you want to achieve with that kind of nonsense? Straight

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#16 - 2014-06-02 09:36:29 UTC
the idea is probably to prevent ishtars from running around the field, redeploying and reconnecting....but yeah thinking about it more I got to agree with you, it would be kinda useless and wouldn't solve really solve the problem.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-06-02 09:39:35 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
the idea is probably to prevent ishtars from running around the field, redeploying and reconnecting....but yeah thinking about it more I got to agree with you, it would be kinda useless and wouldn't solve really solve the problem.
+1 for the ability to rethink your own oppinion. Big smile

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-06-02 09:41:40 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
5km idea for retaining controll actually sounds pretty nice. Arronicus summaried it pretty well. Sentries are far from gettin nerfed.


Make it that they orbit and you have yourself a deal.

The rest is just numbers juggling, for example the mega will have significantly more dps at a lower range.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#19 - 2014-06-02 09:51:37 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
5km idea for retaining controll actually sounds pretty nice. Arronicus summaried it pretty well. Sentries are far from gettin nerfed.


Make it that they orbit and you have yourself a deal.

The rest is just numbers juggling, for example the mega will have significantly more dps at a lower range.

Does it? from what I see domi with bouncers does still more dmg than mega with navy antimatter. Or very similiar if you go for more dps instead. on top of that there are still domies high slots usually full of neuts or other nasty stuff that will screw you up.


Never stick too heavily to what you think in the early morning Debora :D
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-06-02 12:19:47 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
5km idea for retaining controll actually sounds pretty nice. Arronicus summaried it pretty well. Sentries are far from gettin nerfed.


Make it that they orbit and you have yourself a deal.

The rest is just numbers juggling, for example the mega will have significantly more dps at a lower range.

Does it? from what I see domi with bouncers does still more dmg than mega with navy antimatter. Or very similiar if you go for more dps instead. on top of that there are still domies high slots usually full of neuts or other nasty stuff that will screw you up.


Never stick too heavily to what you think in the early morning Debora :D


Do tell how to get 1300 blaster dps out of bouncers :)
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